Hundreds of women assaulted in German NYE celebrations

[irf520]

I was too scared to 'like' that post, and also not at all convinced by the second bit of it. But have long been wondering about how come there seem to be such a relatively small percentage of women coming into Europe. All the appeals from Calais for instance have long said they only need men's clothes.

The problem is (obviously) that Trump got here ages ago.
Eg. Here he is, talking a few months ago:
“This could be the great Trojan horse of all time. Because you look at the migration, study it, look at it. Now they’ll start infiltrating with women and children. but you look at that migration—and I’m the first one to bring it up—three weeks ago I’m sitting and I’m saying, ‘isn’t that a shame?’ And then I said to myself, ‘Wow. They’re all men.’ You look at it. There are so few women and there are so few children. And not only are they men, they’re young men. And they’re strong as can be—they’re tough looking cookies. I say, what’s going on here?” etc etc.

I've seen it described as what an invading army would look like if they turned up in civilian clothes and without weapons.

 

[frogwoman]

A lot of them are going ahead and their wives and kids are staying in turkey or 'safe' areas of syria. Not so surprising.

 

[bi0boy]

The government's policy of taking families directly from Syria has to be a better idea.

 

[treelover]

Disgraceful report by Hugh Sykes on Broadcasting House(R4) about the attacks, he appeared to question the number of complaints, the nature of the attacks, more robbery than sexual assault, concur with the German social worker who is being wheeled out regularly now who says it may be a conspiracy and that the men were encouraged to pursue the attack, informed that german women were easy, (wtf) bu dark forces. It is clear he has an agenda, he supports the refugees, Merkel, etc, that is ok in a personal capacity, but not as an objective journalist.

 

[xenon]

I've seen it described as what an invading army would look like if they turned up in civilian clothes and without weapons.

Otherwise known as a large group of young men then.

There is undeniably a problem with ingrained cultural attitudes towards women, homosexuals, religion and so on, held by some of those seaking refuge in the west. But let's not go down this route of calling them all invading armies, swarms and all that dehumanising shit.

 

[bimble]

the German social worker who is being wheeled out regularly now who says it may be a conspiracy and that the men were encouraged to pursue the attack, informed that german women were easy, (wtf) by dark forces.

Seriously? Do you mean dark forces other than say internet porn / ignorance ?

 

[LDC]

I had a chat with a good political friend the other day and she suggested the whole thing might be a set-up by 'right wing women' to create tensions. I did pull her up on it, and very quickly she recanted that idea, but it does show the initial first reaction from lots of lefties is pretty fucked up.

 

[bimble]

A lot of them are going ahead and their wives and kids are staying in turkey or 'safe' areas of syria. Not so surprising.

Yes. To a large extent that's got to be a direct result of the crazy system whereby you first have to get here somehow.

 

[LDC]

Yes. To a large extent that's got to be a direct result of the crazy system whereby you first have to get here somehow.

Yeah there's loads of understandable reasons why it would be mostly men that come here. No need to start jibbering on about invading undercover armies.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Otherwise known as a large group of young men then.

There is undeniably a problem with ingrained cultural attitudes towards women, homosexuals, religion and so on, held by some of those seaking refuge in the west. But let's not go down this route of calling them all invading armies, swarms and all that dehumanising shit.

absolutely. And yes, many of them are men of fighting age avoiding being conscripted by one side or another into fighting. So? It's fantasy to talk of training them up to go back as partisans to 'liberate their homeland'. Dangerous madness, in fact - this is a civil war in which foreign actors are now to the fore on all sides, highly factionalised and with a real prospect that 'Syria' may never exist meaningfully again. If they're in govt areas, they'll be conscripted into Assad's army. If they're in other areas, they'll be pressured to fight for whichever faction controls the area. People seriously calling for sending them back to that?

 

[treelover]

I had a chat with a good political friend the other day and she suggested the whole thing might be a set-up by 'right wing women' to create tensions. I did pull her up on it, and very quickly she recanted that idea, but it does show the initial first reaction from lots of lefties is pretty fucked up.

That is crazy and craven, do they understand how difficult that would be to undertake, never mind the sheer ridiculousness of any possibility of it happening.

 

[Teaboy]

The government's policy of taking families directly from Syria has to be a better idea.

Yes, I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with doing what they are doing, but the numbers are far to small. Also just doing that completly ignores the suffering of people right on our doorstep, people who would most likley be granted asylum if they could just get to the UK.

 

[treelover]

Seriously? Do you mean dark forces other than say internet porn / ignorance ?

I meant right wing forces, its bizarre, I have complained to the BBC about the report. I really hope others, women especially, do so as well.

 

[bimble]

That is crazy and craven, do they understand how difficult that would be to undertake, never mind the sheer ridiculousness of any possibility of it happening.

When I read this I thought it was a joke, but maybe not then :
"Short of going full conspiracy-theory, and suggesting a) that rightwing German men have slapped on the fake tan in a fiendish effort to engineer a revolt against German immigration policy; or b) that rightwing German men have slapped on the fake tan and dresses, then made it all up, to the same end, there appear to be few uncomplicated ways to blame the right for all this."

The left must admit the truth about the assaults on women in Cologne

 

[DotCommunist]

absolutely. And yes, many of them are men of fighting age avoiding being conscripted by one side or another into fighting. So? It's fantasy to talk of training them up to go back as partisans to 'liberate their homeland'. Dangerous madness, in fact - this is a civil war in which foreign actors are now to the fore on all sides, highly factionalised and with a real prospect that 'Syria' may never exist meaningfully again. If they're in govt areas, they'll be conscripted into Assad's army. If they're in other areas, they'll be pressured to fight for whichever faction controls the area. People seriously calling for sending them back to that?

that lunatic idea and the 'we should stop letting them in' (they're here regardless and more to come, at this point we're arguing over legal status not presence so...) idea plus the whiff of 'I told you so's' from some quarters are doing my head in.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

that lunatic idea and the 'we should stop letting them in' (they're here regardless and more to come, at this point we're arguing over legal status not presence so...) idea plus the whiff of 'I told you so's' from some quarters are doing my head in.

Yep. Mine too.

 

[bimble]

Disgraceful report by Hugh Sykes on Broadcasting House(R4) about the attacks, he appeared to question the number of complaints, the nature of the attacks, more robbery than sexual assault, concur with the German social worker who is being wheeled out regularly now who says it may be a conspiracy and that the men were encouraged to pursue the attack, informed that german women were easy, (wtf) bu dark forces. It is clear he has an agenda, he supports the refugees, Merkel, etc, that is ok in a personal capacity, but not as an objective journalist.

Found it I think. Cologne: Opposing views from Pegida and anti-racism demonstrations, 10/01/2016, Broadcasting House - BBC Radio 4 ?
You get to hear bloody Tommy Robinson ranting there in the square yesterday ! (former leader of EDL)

 

[frogwoman]

How are they going to stop the boats coming in then short of erecting a huge donald trump style wall around the mediterranean?

 

[bimble]

How are they going to stop the boats coming in then short of erecting a huge donald trump style wall around the mediterranean?

Giant battleships and skinhead vigilante submarine armies maybe.

 

[frogwoman]

Giant battleships and skinhead vigilante submarine armies maybe.

That's never had any bad effects anywhere, especially not in Germany

 

[Pickman's model]

The government's policy of taking families directly from Syria has to be a better idea.

how are they getting them directly from syria?

 

[bimble]

That's never had any bad effects anywhere, especially not in Germany

Am I wrong in thinking that of all the countries this could have happened in, maybe Germany is the least bad one - I mean in terms of how likely it is that the far right will actually make serious gains? I don't know. I mean, compared to Poland/ Slovakia etc surely but I think even compared to UK?

 

[Pickman's model]

I had a chat with a good political friend the other day and she suggested the whole thing might be a set-up by 'right wing women' to create tensions. I did pull her up on it, and very quickly she recanted that idea, but it does show the initial first reaction from lots of lefties is pretty fucked up.

nice if unfounded extrapolation from an anecdote

 

[Pickman's model]

Am I wrong in thinking that of all the countries this could have happened in, maybe Germany is the least bad one - I mean in terms of how likely it is that the far right will actually make serious gains? I don't know. I mean, compared to Poland/ Slovakia etc surely but I think even compared to UK?

thank god there's a silver lining

 

[Thora]

It wasn't refugees that attacked women, it was men. We already had a pretty major men problem in Europe (how many millions of women are attacked, raped and murdered by men every year?) and now we have more men, many with even worse attitudes towards women, so even more of a problem. It's the same problem that there was last year and the year before and every other year though. I don't see it as a reason to close borders.

 

[crossthebreeze]

I was too scared to 'like' that post, and also not at all convinced by the second bit of it. But have long been wondering about how come there seem to be such a relatively small percentage of women coming into Europe. All the appeals from Calais for instance have long said they only need men's clothes.

The problem is (obviously) that Trump got here ages ago.
Eg. Here he is, talking a few months ago:
“This could be the great Trojan horse of all time. Because you look at the migration, study it, look at it. Now they’ll start infiltrating with women and children. but you look at that migration—and I’m the first one to bring it up—three weeks ago I’m sitting and I’m saying, ‘isn’t that a shame?’ And then I said to myself, ‘Wow. They’re all men.’ You look at it. There are so few women and there are so few children. And not only are they men, they’re young men. And they’re strong as can be—they’re tough looking cookies. I say, what’s going on here?” etc etc.

According to the UN, of the refugees leaving Syria, there are slightly more total females (50.7 %) than males (49.3%), and slightly more adult women (23.9% aged 18-60, 1.6% older) than men (21.4% aged 18-60, 1.3% older). 51.8% of refugees are under 18 (thats 26.6% boys and 25.2% girls), and 30.1% are aged 11 and under.

For obvious reasons its youngish men and older boys who are more likely to pay people traffickers, make the dangerous sea crossing, walk for hundreds of miles, camp out, jump over fences, and run and get themselves into trucks to get to Germany/Sweden/UK etc. This has in the past suited European governments as they get to show that they are making immigration very difficult (fortress Europe) while also increasing their future labour pool without taking on too many children or elderly people.

Taking whole families from camps in Turkey/Jordan etc is a better way - but it needs to be in large numbers, not the pitiful number that Cameron has agreed to take. That will slow the flow of people, but won't stop it: for understandable reasons many young men don't want to be bored and skint in a refugee camp for ever - and I don't think there's much anyone can do to stop them coming tbh.

 

[bimble]

According to the UN, of the refugees leaving Syria, there are slightly more total females (50.7 %) than males (49.3%), and slightly more adult women (23.9% aged 18-60, 1.6% older) than men (21.4% aged 18-60, 1.3% older). 51.8% of refugees are under 18 (thats 26.6% boys and 25.2% girls), and 30.1% are aged 11 and under.

For obvious reasons its youngish men and older boys who are more likely to pay people traffickers, make the dangerous sea crossing, walk for hundreds of miles, camp out, jump over fences, and run and get themselves into trucks to get to Germany/Sweden/UK etc. This has in the past suited European governments as they get to show that they are making immigration very difficult (fortress Europe) while also increasing their future labour pool without taking on too many children or elderly people.

Taking whole families from camps in Turkey/Jordan etc is a better way - but it needs to be in large numbers, not the pitiful number that Cameron has agreed to take. That will slow the flow of people, but won't stop it: for understandable reasons many young men don't want to be bored and skint in a refugee camp for ever - and I don't think there's much anyone can do to stop them coming tbh.

totally agree.

 

[LDC]

nice if unfounded extrapolation from an anecdote

Well, seeing as I've not seen any research on this yet might anecdotes have some validity to illuminate a tendency when lots of them show similar things?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Taking whole families from camps in Turkey/Jordan etc is a better way - but it needs to be in large numbers, not the pitiful number that Cameron has agreed to take. That will slow the flow of people, but won't stop it: for understandable reasons many young men don't want to be bored and skint in a refugee camp for ever - and I don't think there's much anyone can do to stop them coming tbh.

And on a personal level, the best of luck to them. Yes, there are those who want to create a new pool of cheap labour, but let's focus attention on them, not the people who they want to employ. The refugees are not the enemy here. And not just refugees - economic migrants are not the enemy either.

 

[bi0boy]

how are they getting them directly from syria?

Ok, "Syrian families directly from Syria from next to Syria".