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Hundreds of women assaulted in German NYE celebrations

All this talk about vetting/background checking refugees would have prevented this - fair enough some of these men might be generally dodgy characters with a history of organised crime - but there's no evidence yet that the vast majority were. How likely is it for your average violent misogynist to have a conviction for rape/sexual assault/sexual harassment in this country, let alone in Syria or wherever?

Hardly anyone was ever convicted for those attacks in tahrir . In Afghanistan and elsewhere rape is considered adultery . And the victim charged, so they don't report it. The notion that background checks would prevent this isn't feasible. As is the notion that large scale immigration from those countries can be accomplished without major social friction. It wasn't feasible, which is why we had attempts from the outset to cover the whole fucking thing up.
If you want thus level of immigration then so be it. If your prepared to accept all that goes with it and the reactions to it then so be it. Your ideology comes first.
I just wish they'd spare us all the fucking moralising and the liberal angst . Just tell us straight this is what our ideology demands and everyone just adjust themselves no matter how bad it gets. Ideology demands we accept a lowering of our enjoyment of life, less security, more fear and the rise if the far right . Spare us all the other bullshit . Don't lie to us and tell us it's not happening, that everything will be ok. It won't. It's going to be very shit indeed .
 
So what, it's ok for Turkish women to be raped? That's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about - somehow this shouldn't have to be our problem. Let the Turks sort it out, or someone else, anyone else.

So it's our responsibility to solve all the world's problems? That's exactly the sort of thinking that got us into this mess in the first place.
 
Hardly anyone was ever convicted for those attacks in tahrir . In Afghanistan and elsewhere rape is considered adultery . And the victim charged, so they don't report it. The notion that background checks would prevent this isn't feasible. As is the notion that large scale immigration from those countries can be accomplished without major social friction. It wasn't feasible, which is why we had attempts from the outset to cover the whole fucking thing up.
If you want thus level of immigration then so be it. If your prepared to accept all that goes with it and the reactions to it then so be it. Your ideology comes first.
I just wish they'd spare us all the fucking moralising and the liberal angst . Just tell us straight this is what our ideology demands and everyone just adjust themselves no matter how bad it gets. Ideology demands we accept a lowering of our enjoyment of life, less security, more fear and the rise if the far right . Spare us all the other bullshit . Don't lie to us and tell us it's not happening, that everything will be ok. It won't. It's going to be very shit indeed .

Sorry if you've already been asked this question, but the thread has moved on too fast to keep up. What do you suggest the EU reaction should be to the refugee crisis? We have a moral obligation to help those who are fleeing for their lives. We can't just say 'no-ones coming in'.
 
i'd agree if the crimes were crimes of food to mouth, of surival, of struggling in a new country, resorting to crime as a means of getting by, or belonging in a group.

touching up/raping women is something else though. i fail to see who benefits, including the perpetrators, by "factoring in western imperialism". so if someone comes from a horrible, fucked up, western fucked up country, he may become so angry that he...starts raping women. what a charmer. his personal history and environment will never excuse that, surely, and i don't think it really explains it either. the wrongness is there within the person, and it doesn't have to be. we are not totally powerless in the face of circumstance...

The issue isn't, in my opinion, one of "wrongness" inherent to the person. In terms of sex crimes, more often than not the main influence is opportunism, and it's with that opportunism that factors like "western imperialism", patriarchal social, cultural and religious attitudes etc come into play. Many migrants may have the opportunity to rape, but few take it. All of us, including you and me, aren't merely the sum of our influences - we have the free will to decide whether or not to take a course of action.
 
Really? I think its a fair enough intervention.

What do you think a bunch of rapists who think western women are all " sluts " reaction to it is ?

I'm not condemning her . I just think its naff .and maybe opportunistic in a self promotion kind of way . And helps nobody .
 
I'm going to risk being lampooned for doing it again but.. I think this a decent article, from the Guardian!
The left must admit the truth about the assaults on women in Cologne

It's okay as far as it goes, but it's reductive. Orr goes on about the German right as if they're all white Europeans - they're not. There's a minority of Turks in the German right too, so while the German right having staged this is unlikely (but not impossible), making out that members of German right groups would have had to put on fake tan to pull this sort of thing off is inaccurate.
 
So it's our responsibility to solve all the world's problems? That's exactly the sort of thinking that got us into this mess in the first place.

Spot on, it's not our responsibility . Nor is it within our gift . And it's that type of thinking that leads..and is manipulated and used...to justify bombing and destabilisation that makes the problems fucking worse ." If only that bad man was removed there'd be a nice liberal government and the region would change for the better " utter bollocks .
That type of thinking is just another form of imperialism , another mindset of western exceptionalism. Our innate western mission to "save " the world . We can see we're it's gotten us .
We can help, but only up to a point . We can't shape the world. We can't even protect a bunch of women in our own cities. Or bring ourselves to admit it happened until we were finally shamed into it. Which has more in common with the societies we think we can save than we care to admit .
 
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Yes, that was 'discussed' a couple of days ago.

I tried to be really brave by suggesting that the whole thing should not necessarily be dismissed as 'racist'. .

View attachment 81830

The Norwegian programme for asylum seekers was also on the World Service this morning. The Norwegian Clinical Psychologist also said they were doing classes dealing with trauma for the young male refugees. As they had escaped from war zones. etc. Reading that article there are ways to do this that do not focus on race.

My view there is a danger that this all becomes to clear cut. North African and middle eastern countries are also places where women contest their place in society. They are not just traditional societies vs European.

Secondly its only in the last few generations here in Europe that the position on women has radically improved. In particular the Feminist movement from the 1960s.

Good programme here this morning on World Service
From India how one young artist is using fabric design to send a message about women's experience of public transport in the country. Also in the programme how Egyptian cinema is beginning to reflect the reality of sexual harassment for women in Cairo and from Gaza, what political art can tell us about the changing role of women. Finally Jamaican novelist Marlon James describes how literature helped him gain self-acceptance.

(The Jamacian novelist is gay man )
 
In the post I pulled you up on, you said this:



So your alternative suggestion is what? Send the young men back to Syria? Background checks on people fleeing a warzone? How, exactly? This is very specifically implying that somehow this is not, or ought not to be, Europe's problem, which is complete balls.

Given the extensive security apparatus in states like Libya and Syria, Interpol should have been able to wangle/buy at least limited access to the files that were/are doubtless kept on the populations of those states.
In fact just noising about that background checks would take place, could deter some criminally-inclined potential migrants.
 
An interview here with Lara Logan , the US journalist who was attacked and horrifically assaulted by a pack of degenerate animals in Cairo while covering the protests there . Using tactics extremely similar to those employed by the mobs of migrants in Cologne . All distressingly familiar in many ways .



It's very hard to listen to but i think its necessary because this cultural / sub cultural phenomenon appears to be a fact of german life now due to the widespread and co ordinated nature of these attacks . That awful criminal culture logan was a victim of is what Merkel , that idiotic mayor and a host of other crusading, sound bite grabbing poser politicians have now imported into Germany en masse with their idiotic policies . And what's more frightening is its absolutely apparent they have absolutely no clue as to how to deal with it. In fact in the mayors case she's insisting it shouldn't be discussed, while simultaneously engaging in a form of victim blaming . Same goes for the idiot left . Absolutely no idea about what to do when the whole thing goes tits up and their happy clappy bullshit is seen for what it really is. People are well and truly on their own here, with absolutely nobody reliable to turn to . In some ways similar to the awful situation Logan found herself in, having trusted the wrong people .

This time next year the problem will have gotten even worse, with twice as many unvetted male migrants as this year, hundreds of thousands more . Christ knows what we'll be recoiling in horror from next .

Eta

It's pretty distressing to watch so please anyone who's likely to be badly affected by listening to it for whatever reason please don't. Just give it a miss .

Brave Woman !
 
What do you think a bunch of rapists who think western women are all " sluts " reaction to it is ?

I'm not condemning her . I just think its naff .and maybe opportunistic in a self promotion kind of way . And helps nobody .

You are condemning her in your first sentence.

Regarding women as sluts is the problem. Its not an attitude that is only found in men from North Africa.
 
Brave Woman !

Extremely brave, and extremely lucky considering the fates of others .

I was reading a harrowing account there of a Swedish woman who'd been lured to an asylum centre on false pretences and held captive . Gang raped for over seven hours by a bunch of afghans . She's now confined to a wheelchair in a mental facility , faecally incontinent. Same age as her, 2 kids . Life ruined for good. By a bunch of cunts. Some of whom got off, the rest of whom got slaps on the wrist sentence wise . A few years .
And the minister for immigration or whatever denounced those who called for their deportation as racists .

It's crazy. These liberal ideologues , mentally, have a lot in common with those demented fucking imams .
 
You are condemning her in your first sentence.

Regarding women as sluts is the problem. Its not an attitude that is only found in men from North Africa.

I'm not condemining her in the slightest . Are you completely Manichaean or something ? Not being impressed with her actions and condemning them are 2 entirely different things .
 
Extremely brave, and extremely lucky considering the fates of others .

I was reading a harrowing account there of a Swedish woman who'd been lured to an asylum centre on false pretences and held captive . Gang raped for over seven hours by a bunch of afghans . She's now confined to a wheelchair in a mental facility , faecally incontinent. Same age as her, 2 kids . Life ruined for good. By a bunch of cunts. Some of whom got off, the rest of whom got slaps on the wrist sentence wise . A few years .
And the minister for immigration or whatever denounced those who called for their deportation as racists .

It's crazy. These liberal ideologues , mentally, have a lot in common with those demented fucking imams .
Have you got details of this ?
Which copy of Der Stürmer or it's modern day equivalent would if find it in ?
 
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If you were being gang raped right in front of police would you not want them to consider this option in order to save you ?

Maybe if the coppers had scoped rifles, but I wouldn't want them firing on my attackers with pistols if they were more than about 10 metres away, given that the standard for the bundespolizei and the various landespolizei is such that qualification only requires 5 out of 10 rounds "on target". If they're still using Walther P1s, that means that out of every full magazine discharged, there are 5 possible chances of me taking a hit. If they're in closer, then fair enough, blaze away.
 
Given the extensive security apparatus in states like Libya and Syria, Interpol should have been able to wangle/buy at least limited access to the files that were/are doubtless kept on the populations of those states.
In fact just noising about that background checks would take place, could deter some criminally-inclined potential migrants.

Not turning it into a failed state in the first place might been a more sensible option. But then again we are on the side of the angels and have an inherent duty to save the world . And can do no wrong in the crusade for goodness .
 
Maybe if the coppers had scoped rifles, but I wouldn't want them firing on my attackers with pistols if they were more than about 10 metres away, given that the standard for the bundespolizei and the various landespolizei is such that qualification only requires 5 out of 10 rounds "on target". If they're still using Walther P1s, that means that out of every full magazine discharged, there are 5 possible chances of me taking a hit. If they're in closer, then fair enough, blaze away.

They were face to face with the fuckers shielding them. Missing them was highly unlikely .
 
I'm not condemining her in the slightest . Are you completely Manichaean or something ? Not being impressed with her actions and condemning them are 2 entirely different things .

Here is what you said in post 1063:

Oblivious to the fact her " protest " is only likely to attract the bastards back .

I read this as saying her protest will encourage more attacks on women.
 
An interview here with Lara Logan , the US journalist who was attacked and horrifically assaulted by a pack of degenerate animals in Cairo while covering the protests there . Using tactics extremely similar to those employed by the mobs of migrants in Cologne . All distressingly familiar in many ways .



It's very hard to listen to but i think its necessary because this cultural / sub cultural phenomenon appears to be a fact of german life now due to the widespread and co ordinated nature of these attacks . That awful criminal culture logan was a victim of is what Merkel , that idiotic mayor and a host of other crusading, sound bite grabbing poser politicians have now imported into Germany en masse with their idiotic policies . And what's more frightening is its absolutely apparent they have absolutely no clue as to how to deal with it. In fact in the mayors case she's insisting it shouldn't be discussed, while simultaneously engaging in a form of victim blaming . Same goes for the idiot left . Absolutely no idea about what to do when the whole thing goes tits up and their happy clappy bullshit is seen for what it really is. People are well and truly on their own here, with absolutely nobody reliable to turn to . In some ways similar to the awful situation Logan found herself in, having trusted the wrong people .

This time next year the problem will have gotten even worse, with twice as many unvetted male migrants as this year, hundreds of thousands more . Christ knows what we'll be recoiling in horror from next .

Eta

It's pretty distressing to watch so please anyone who's likely to be badly affected by listening to it for whatever reason please don't. Just give it a miss .

I understand where you're coming from and I agree largely with your sentiment. I notice in your post to directing a lot of frustration and pent-up feeling that would urge you to move away from that and build on the way that you express your thoughts, which are very well written.

I recognise where you're coming from when you castigate the Liberals and do-gooders. There is an old expression "kicking against the (pin) pricks". Which refers to win loads of little injustices or annoyances build up.

Both you and I sound a little right wing because we are objecting to something about the way the Syrian, migrant/refugee situation is being handled.

I come across as unkind because I want far harder attitude towards taking in refugees. The reason for this is because our humanitarian policies and humanitarian words from politicians seem false. Because it is my observation we are not a kind society but one that likes to think themselves kind by doing occasional good works such as Live Aid, or the Ice Bucket Challenge, to make grand statements on Facebook and social media and then move on to the next topic.

No one has the courage to say, I don't particularly care about Syrian refugees. That may be a reprehensible attitude but should not kindness and charity be something that is given through free will.

What frustrates me and I believe many others is that all this kindness of accepting refugees is not something I have any say in. But being played out by politicians who I feel are either being motivated by fear of being shamed or denounced, and posing do-gooders who are trying to make themselves look good.

To me there something wrong with the whole debate the whole atmosphere. If you listen to the BBC radio 4 question Time, it's the same robotic statements from the politicians how it is our natural responsibility to help refugees and how migration is great for this country. But where I'm sitting I see Britain being changed permanently in a way I don't like. Or at best much faster than I would like.

The one thing that is in short supply in modern life, is peace of mind and happiness. While it is lovely to have one's life enriched by meeting people from different cultures and backgrounds, it's also nice being around people have similar values and have been through the same sorts of things growing up.

Things like being able to discuss, TV shows, fashions the general zeitgeist through the decades. People have some grasp of Britain and Britain's history. It's much easier to make a strong connection and have a far more pleasant time with people that have lived here all their life be they indigenous or have being settled here.

In terms of me being mean and heartless, it's much better to be honest and then ask myself how I can be kind of a more compassionate and share the benefits of living in the West. I believe I'm not alone in that I'm trying to find a way to stop the immigration situation upsetting me, I would like to find better and more noble attitudes. Trying to see the good in all people including these mobs of migrants responsible for the recent problems around new years in Germany.

After all there in a completely new culture with alcohol freely available, and they've got no idea how to speak to German woman yet each one of them has a normal male sex drive. I've had years to learn about the social clues of interaction and still have much to learn, with these guys it's all happening at once. I'm talking about the ones going along with it rather than the actual criminal predators.
 
*aim gun at person preventing officer from preventing rape*
"You are stopping me from preventing a rape, move or I will shoot you"

Pretty fucking simple.

Only if you've no experience with firearms. Most coppers will be well aware that the fully-jacketed 9mm rounds in their service pistols have over-penetration issues.That's fine if what's behind the rapist you're aiming at is a wall (although even then you may have to worry about ricochets), not so good if there are any innocent people nearby, though.
And once you've made a threat to shoot, and don't do so, where are you left/what leverage are you left with?
 
Non lethal...but...every town in Germany now should have water cannon on standby on new years eve and the like ? In a country were the people generally behave themselves and don't go beyond a level of acceptable boisterousness ?

TBF the various landespolizei already own fleets of water cannon (and sell them on to blond twats) that are stored in the main cities, so it shouldn't be a problem economically or logistically.
Socially, though, it'd probably cause a big ruckus.
 
They used the water canon against pegida today in Cologne, so presumably could have done the same to the rapists.

Fantastic. So the police won't do anything about a rape mob but you get the water cannon for protesting about a rape mob? You couldn't fucking make this shit up.
 
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