Hundreds of women assaulted in German NYE celebrations
- Thread starter trashpony
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Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
Idiots. It's a perfect storm now . The gamblers have doubled down yet again with a losing hand .
A friend of mine spent a year working for an NGO in Cairo and while she was there and subsequently she frequently said that simply walking down the street alone as an obviously Western foreign woman often felt like running the gauntlet of various types of sexual abuse - more often than not verbal stuff but from time to time more physical things.
Egypt has not been bombed or invaded recently as far as I am aware but there seems to be a culture of sexual exploitation there.
Mind you, I've heard similar things about Pakistan and India.
Perhaps the main point is not about "Western Imperialism" but instead an absence of feminism?
Egypt has not been bombed or invaded recently as far as I am aware but there seems to be a culture of sexual exploitation there.
Mind you, I've heard similar things about Pakistan and India.
Perhaps the main point is not about "Western Imperialism" but instead an absence of feminism?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
In the post I pulled you up on, you said this:
So your alternative suggestion is what? Send the young men back to Syria? Background checks on people fleeing a warzone? How, exactly? This is very specifically implying that somehow this is not, or ought not to be, Europe's problem, which is complete balls.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
Unless your suggesting sending an army of social workers and wooly jumpered , yoghurt knitting , tofu munching freaks to the middle east to engage in some emergency consciousness raising none of that really matters a fuck .
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Now what are you dribbling about? This post has nothing whatever to do with mine or the issue I was responding to.
You're just making up a position to argue against here.
D'wards
IT'S YOUR DECISION DANIEL
I think this may have repercussions on our own immigration/asylum laws. In the UK if you commit a serious crime (one over 2 years imprisonment) its very hard to be granted asylum - near impossible, and if you already have refugee status it is cessated. The gov are always looking at further ways to make it harsher, and Germany have announced this so I expect Home Office to take the opportunity to tighten the system up even more.
Athos
Well-Known Member
But, if you are at serious risk of death or torture etc., then you won't be sent back, regardless of this change of status.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
The reason they're coming in such vastly inflated numbers is because Frau merkel and the mayor of cologne have invited them to . They've already passed through a plethora of countries since they left Syria...or wherever . Moroccans aren't fleeing a war . Neither are Tunisians . Neither is anyone who was in turkey, Serbia , Macedonia etc after they left Syria .
Your suggestion seems to be everyone who lives in Syria should just move to Germany if they do t like it . Regardless of the fact that is now causing chaos in Germany and the rise of something very troubling and worrying indeed that you have absolutely no counter to. And neither does anyone else .
This chaos is and was predictable, very predictable . But anyone predicting it was hounded and demonised as a racist . But it's happening now . Actually happening . And this won't be the end of it .
To think many on the left here saw them as a great big hope, including me.
I am absolutely baffled that the (very large) feminist movement in Germany hasn't called a massive national demo against the attacks, etc, must have conflicted ideas.
D'wards
IT'S YOUR DECISION DANIEL
Its very hard to get the HO to accept you are at serious risk of death or torture. If you get over 4 years you're fucked, they are treated differently and get very little consideration.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
The cops should have dropped a few of them in cologne . They had the right to do so . And the duty, when alls said and done .
Doctor Carrot
Marxist Henchman
While I don't disagree with what you're saying this kind of talk of makes me queazy at the moment. Dwyer's 'chickens home to roost' comment reminded me of people saying similar after the Paris attacks, 'we reap what we sow' pass me the sick bucket. I mean how far do we wanna go back in history in trying to relate western imperialism to why some fuck head chooses to rape and molest women? The industrial revolution? The voyages of Columbus? Who really gives a fuck where these pricks are from? It just seems irrelevent to me, although I do appreciate it's relevent in the current climate because of what comes next.
The most pressing issue is hundreds of men went on a rape/robbery/molesting spree and the old bill did next to fuck all about it. I'm sure we're all aware of the statistics around male on female violence across the globe, that's a global problem, a fucing plague in fact, is that solely due western imperialism? Yeah, the refugees are in Europe largely due to western imperialism but so fucking what in the context of gangs of men going on a rape and molesting spree?
Edit: Not specifically questions aimed at you, LBJ nor anything in the post. Just a general post about the relation of western imperialism to this.
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J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
If anything remotely similar happens again they should just shoot into the crowd. If you are part of a crowd physically preventing a police officer from stopping someone being raped you are fair game.
So, there are three different demos there now the Womens one, the Pegida one, and the Die Linke one against Pegida, etc,
I imagine there are a lot of feminists from the 60,s/70's/80, who are wondering, why did I bother, sadly not many young women seem to be in the womans demo.
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Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
It does bear out what I had heard from friends in Germany that reporting has effectively been censored. I knew about what was happening a while back, but of course, when you are going on unverified comment, you wait and see what transpires.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
Abso fucking lutely . They've a responsibility to protect and rape is an extremely grave and life threatening assault .
So? If you are genuinely fleeing torture or death and are fortunate enough to be given sanctuary in another country, why would you commit crimes when you get there? Especially ones which warrant a 4 year prison sentence. That's just taking the piss. We've got enough criminals, we don't need any more. Fuck them.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
IMO this is a necessary response to anyone asking 'why did we let them in?' And yes, then you have the separate issue of how to deal with this horrible thing. But some are going the full Enoch on this stuff.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Athos
Well-Known Member
Obviously, we don't yet know the facts of this case (and possibly never will).
But, if you let lots of young men into a county, notwithstanding that they come from a culture in which attitudes towards women are far 'worse' than those of the native population, it's obvious there'll be some crimes against women that would not have otherwise occurred. That's obvious.
It presents three questions: i) why should they be welcomed; ii) can the risk be ameliorated; and, iii) to the extent that it cannot, what is the tipping point between the reasons for (i) and the cost in terms of the number/severity of crimes against women.
I think the reasons for (i) are pretty obvious, including humanitarianism and a sense of responsibility for the role the west has played in creating this mess. (Not that I necessarily accept that these are the actual reasons why those in power allowed it.)
In terms of (ii), it's a little more difficult, because a lot of the obvious measures would offend against some pretty universally held principles e.g. to admit only women and children would be discriminatory, and to send people back to places where they would be killed and/or tortured is unconsionable (and unlawful under ECHR), even if they were convicted of crimes.
But my biggest problem by far is (iii). I'm not even sure I (or any man) ought to have a say in how many women being raped is a price worth paying for admitting refugees.
But, if you let lots of young men into a county, notwithstanding that they come from a culture in which attitudes towards women are far 'worse' than those of the native population, it's obvious there'll be some crimes against women that would not have otherwise occurred. That's obvious.
It presents three questions: i) why should they be welcomed; ii) can the risk be ameliorated; and, iii) to the extent that it cannot, what is the tipping point between the reasons for (i) and the cost in terms of the number/severity of crimes against women.
I think the reasons for (i) are pretty obvious, including humanitarianism and a sense of responsibility for the role the west has played in creating this mess. (Not that I necessarily accept that these are the actual reasons why those in power allowed it.)
In terms of (ii), it's a little more difficult, because a lot of the obvious measures would offend against some pretty universally held principles e.g. to admit only women and children would be discriminatory, and to send people back to places where they would be killed and/or tortured is unconsionable (and unlawful under ECHR), even if they were convicted of crimes.
But my biggest problem by far is (iii). I'm not even sure I (or any man) ought to have a say in how many women being raped is a price worth paying for admitting refugees.
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Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
Right now we are at the rivers of tears stage . How far are you prepared to see it go before you accept open borders,One world, let them all in mightn't be a good idea ?
Indeliblelink
\......👁&👁......./
There was this in December from the New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/20/w...ants-a-lesson-in-how-to-treat-women.html?_r=1
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/20/w...ants-a-lesson-in-how-to-treat-women.html?_r=1
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Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
Fiddling while Germany burns . They'll be appointing horses as senators next .
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