Hundreds of women assaulted in German NYE celebrations

[Casually Red]

On CH4 News, A Syrian volunteer at Cologne station who meets the migrants at the station from their journey incredibly just said he understand why it happens, "they have nothing to do, cannot work", etc, he seemed educated, humane, etc, so wtf. He was asked if he condoned it, but I didn't catch the rest

They should deport that cunt too .

 

[Casually Red]

I still haven't seen any evidence at all which demonstrates that this is what's happened, despite a number of posters on this thread seeming to have accepted and to now be repeating/encouraging this line as if it's an established truth.


It's perfectly possible to do both those things, and "the left" should be ensuring that we do both, in as far as we can. And to be honest those who are shouting loudest about the supposed involvement of refugees and whipping up hatred and hysteria on the back of it, including on this thread but not including you personally, don't actually appear to me to be showing very much real solidarity with the victims of these or any other sexual assaults.

There are times reading Urban when I fucking despair, and this thread and the turn it seems to have taken today with the very vocal involvement of a handful of posters is unfortunately one of those times.

Just another long winded way of saying the same fucking thing. " don't speak about it " . While demonising those who do .

Fuck off.

 

[elbows]

How about 'speak about it but try not to be a reactionary tool?'

 

[bimble]

De Spiegele is a very very pro migration journal/magazine(not a red top), i don't think it would sensationalise events

Are you sure ?

I've just read the link you posted earlier.
It says ":Während des Arabischen Frühlings 2011 kam es auf dem Tahrir-Platz im Herzen von Kairo mehrfach zu sexuellen Übergriffen und Vergewaltigungen von Demonstrantinnen. Auch in den Jahren danach standen der Platz und seine Nebenstraßen immer wieder in den Schlagzeilen. Banden junger Kerle bedrängten und begrabschten Frauen in der Öffentlichkeit. Nach einer Uno-Untersuchung geben 99,3 Prozent aller Ägypterinnen an, schon einmal sexuell belästigt worden zu sein"

which means .. Tahrir square was a total rape-fest, not just in '11 but in the years following. And that some UN-sponsored survey came up with the stat that 99.3 % of all Egyptians have been sexually assaulted.
Really ?

 

[andysays]

Just another long winded way of saying the same fucking thing. " don't speak about it " . While demonising those who do .

Fuck off.

It's not a way of saying don't talk about it at all, you dishonest whining cunt, and no-one is saying you or others shouldn't speak about it, or demonising you simply for speaking about it, so get down off your fucking martyr's cross.

You're not a fascist, but the garbage you've posted on this and many other threads strikes me as swimming in the same shitty pool as fascism, pandering to the same shitty impulses and helping to boost and encourage similar right-wing xenophobic ideas, even if they're not strictly fascist.

 

[bimble]

How about 'speak about it but try not to be a reactionary tool?'

Yes! Please. Because the alternative seems to be refuse to speak about it at all and leave it entirely to the reactionary tools.
Which is very scary.

 

[andysays]

They should deport that cunt too .

I'm not normally in favour of deportation, but I really wish we could deport you to whatever shit-infested swamp you've crawled out of.

 

[Casually Red]

I think your/CR's hypothesis is simplistic, insofar as migrant "career criminals" are unlikely to risk apprehension and repatriation for something as banal as antisocial behaviour, unless they're fucking dimwits.

Criminals often are, that's why jails are full of them . It's not oceans 11 were talking about here. It's no mark , two bob street thugs who rob purses and sell smack at railway stations .

 

[Brainaddict]

ok thanks. I am not German & don't know much at all about the german press (just speak the language, fairly badly).
The Spiegel has a story on right now that is headlined "Why do many Arab countries have a notable problem with sexual violence against women: An attempt to explain the problem" .
In current mood, following the preceding non-discussion here, I'm inclined to think that's not right wing at all, but an intersting question to be asked - I'll have read in my not very good german.
In vielen arabischen Ländern gibt es regelmäßig sexuelle Gewalt gegen Frauen. Wie kommt das? - Gerechtigkeit - bento

I guess the classic framework of patriarchy is probably useful. The more patriarchal a society, the more the value and voices and agency of women is downplayed, the more likely is sexual assault to happen. Firstly because it goes unreported and unpunished, but secondly because who cares what women think about it anyway. That's a bit simplistic and I'm sure there are lots of factors to be looked at, but it may be a good starting point.

 

[mk12]

I still haven't seen any evidence at all which demonstrates that this is what's happened, despite a number of posters on this thread seeming to have accepted and to now be repeating/encouraging this line as if it's an established truth.

I guess a number of posters on this thread have just decided to take the victims' word for it (around 90 women, according to the police). Isn't that the normal thing to do when someone claims they were raped?

 

[bimble]

I guess the classic framework of patriarchy is probably useful. The more patriarchal a society, the more the value and voices and agency of women is downplayed, the more likely is sexual assault to happen. Firstly because it goes unreported and unpunished, but secondly because who cares what women think about it anyway. That's a bit simplistic and I'm sure there are lots of factors to be looked at, but it may be a good starting point.

Excellent starting point. And very brave, if I may say so, without being called a fascist.

 

[Casually Red]

I'm not normally in favour of deportation, but I really wish we could deport you to whatever shit-infested swamp you've crawled out of.

Interesting response to my anger at someone who went on telly and said he understood why his associates sexually assaulted over 100 women, because they'd apparently nothing better to do. And From someone accusing others of having no empathy for the victims too .

Like I said to your previous post...

 

[treelover]

“I saw a group of older foreign men go up to a group of younger girls (they looked under 18) in the underground train and started pushing them around and touching them, and the girls stumbled near to the train tracks,” she added.

“But thankfully a German man stood up and defended them, so the girls were able to run away.”

The BBC admits it co-ordinated in advance the on-air resignation of Stephen Doughty

Its notable that when the shits were confronted by german males, they appear to have bottled it, full on cowards.

 

[elbows]

which means .. Tahrir square was a total rape-fest, not just in '11 but in the years following. And that some UN-sponsored survey came up with the stat that 99.3 % of all Egyptians have been sexually assaulted.
Really ?

The 99.3% figure was for sexual harassment rather than assault, but other figures were almost as grim. e.g.:

99.3% of Egyptian Women, Girls Have Been Sexually Harassed

 

[treelover]

Its notable that when the shits were confronted by german males, they appear to have bottled it, full on cowards.

To add, the german girls resisted, some very very robustly, possibly violently, but to no avail, again this indicates a comtempt for females.

 

[bluescreen]

The 99.3% figure was for sexual harassment rather than assault, but other figures were almost as grim. e.g.:

99.3% of Egyptian Women, Girls Have Been Sexually Harassed

As opposed to a mere 60%, allegedly, in the UK.
Sexual harassment part of daily life for British girls, says Girlguiding UK

 

[J Ed]

As opposed to a mere 60%, allegedly, in the UK.
Sexual harassment part of daily life for British girls, says Girlguiding UK

Are we seriously going to play 'which country is sexism more of a problem in - Egypt or Britain?'

 

[bimble]

The 99.3% figure was for sexual harassment rather than assault, but other figures were almost as grim. e.g.:

99.3% of Egyptian Women, Girls Have Been Sexually Harassed

That is probably the most depressing bunch of statistics I have ever seen.
Is it real?
"more than 90 percent of the male respondents in the U.N. Women study made a similar linkage, attributing harassment to a woman's provocative clothing (96.3 percent), inviting conduct (97.5 percent), enticing make-up application (95.2 percent), disregard for cultural traditions (94.9 percent), walk (93.3 percent) and talk (94.4 percent) and participation in non-marital relations with the opposite gender (95.7 percent)."

 

[bluescreen]

Are we seriously going to play 'which country is sexism more of a problem in - Egypt or Britain?'

Should have added a roll-eye emoji. It's a problem everywhere, but yes - it is seriously worse in some places than others, and silly to pretend it isn't.

 

[Casually Red]

It's not a way of saying don't talk about it at all, you dishonest whining cunt, and no-one is saying you or others shouldn't speak about it, or demonising you simply for speaking about it, so get down off your fucking martyr's cross.

You're not a fascist, but the garbage you've posted on this and many other threads strikes me as swimming in the same shitty pool as fascism, pandering to the same shitty impulses and helping to boost and encourage similar right-wing xenophobic ideas, even if they're not strictly fascist.

So "not strictly fascist " then

I haven't posted any garbage on this thread . I e said this one world, happy clappy, open borders, let them ALL in wankology is a load of bollocks . And that's totally evident after what's just happened. Because its madness that will lead to the rise of the right and the end of the left and a disaster in society . I've said rapists and sexual molesters and organised criminals Should be fucked out . I've emphasised time and again that every last one of them who stood there and partied while that happened right in front of them is responsible for what happened .
None of that is garbage and None of it is remotely fascist , not slightly fascist and not not strictly fascist .

The only worth of your posts is to confirm what the typical response of the left is going to be to anyone else who raises these issues. " fascist....sort of !!"

 

[treelover]

People are insisting on making this a political story, trying to shift the focus on pro- or anti-refugees. But in fact, no one is listening to what we have to say - the women who have been suffering from this violence in the streets on a daily basis long before refugees even came here," she says.

The violence on New Year's Eve was not different from that during any other big-scale celebration in the city, according to Tanja. "Because refugees are now a burning topic, the media all of a sudden report about these events, but what nobody wants to admit is that these things happen all the time. I'm sorry to break this to you, but German-born men also harass and rape."

'No one is asking the women in Cologne what they feel' | News | DW.COM | 06.01.2016

A (very small) Womens meeting in the city had this to say, Is this helpful?, this was an orchestrated attack by a mass of men, the daily abuse on women is a different thing, surely?

 

[bimble]

It's a problem everywhere, but yes - it is seriously worse in some places than others, and silly to pretend it isn't.

Yes. That is all. And a refusal by the well-meaning 'left' to even discuss / admit of this is a fucking disaster, seems to me.

 

[toggle]

If you went to a street party and significant numbers of the people around you spent the night assaulting women, and in some cases cornering them and raping them, would you continue to just hang around and drink? I can understand not intervening, it must be incredibly frightening to be in that situation, but staying and giving them cover? Whoever did that was complicit in what went on.

what happened to Kitty genovese is probably the most famous example, but a complete lack of response from bystanders isn't exactly uncommon

 

[andysays]

I guess a number of posters on this thread have just decided to take the victims' word for it (around 90 women, according to the police). Isn't that the normal thing to do when someone claims they were raped?

In case my post was unclear, and I don't think it was TBH, what I'm saying we have no evidence for is that the people carrying out the attacks were refugees. Please don't try to suggest I'm saying these attacks haven't happened, because I'm saying nothing of the sort.

 

[elbows]

Via the BBC, a very brief glimpse at exactly which countries are getting a mention, albeit with the important caveat:

German media, also quoting internal police reports, say that significant numbers of Syrian, Afghan and Iraqi migrants were in the crowd - although it is unclear if any were involved in the attacks.

Cologne sex attacks: Police could not cope - report - BBC News

 

[Teenage Cthulhu]

what happened to Kitty genovese is probably the most famous example, but a complete lack of response from bystanders isn't exactly uncommon

I was thinking of Genovese when I first heard these reports. There's a book debunking it all that I haven't read.

Apparently debunking it anyway.

 

[treelover]

Not sure of its veracity, eastern european guys eye witness account.

 

[ViolentPanda]

That is probably the most depressing bunch of statistics I have ever seen.
Is it real?
"more than 90 percent of the male respondents in the U.N. Women study made a similar linkage, attributing harassment to a woman's provocative clothing (96.3 percent), inviting conduct (97.5 percent), enticing make-up application (95.2 percent), disregard for cultural traditions (94.9 percent), walk (93.3 percent) and talk (94.4 percent) and participation in non-marital relations with the opposite gender (95.7 percent)."

What those percentage breakdowns don't tell you (as any decent analysis should) is that all those linkages are bollocks excuses with no foothold in reality - they're just tales sex cases tell to "justify" their behaviour to themselves and their peers. Read a case study of sex offenders in any criminal justice system, even those with poor histories of policing sex crimes, and they're full of this shit.

 

[toggle]

A (very small) Womens meeting in the city had this to say, Is this helpful?, this was an orchestrated attack by a mass of men, the daily abuse on women is a different thing, surely?

yeah, that's something that women are taught to be concerned with on a daily basis. which dosen't seem to matter as much because there isn't a group to blame that can be labelled as others. and just not worth getting up on a soap box about.

 

[Joe Reilly]

I guess a number of posters on this thread have just decided to take the victims' word for it (around 90 women, according to the police). Isn't that the normal thing to do when someone claims they were raped?

And that would absolutely be the case if the ethnicity of perpetrators and victims was in reverse. Because that is not the case the liberal impulse is to dissemble.

Question marks are posed against the numbers said to be involved, against the media, against the police, against the capacity of the square, and whether 'sensible refugees' would behave in such a fashion and so on. In all this there is a clear and fervent hope that if the perpetrators are charged they will be shown not to have just got off the boat so to speak. This is a serious misreading of the situation.

If indeed, it is shown that recent arrivals were involved there will inevitably be fall out. However if actual settled immigrants, or indeed German citizens are proven to be involved (as with the French born Paris attackers) the sense of betrayal will be even greater. And again as in France, an even bigger boost to the credibility of the far-right in Germany, and beyond.