Hundreds of women assaulted in German NYE celebrations

[ViolentPanda]

The left can respond to the discovered detail, if and when it emerges. It can't do hardly any of the detective work, and I wouldn't want to form a response on this front until some actual facts are known. To deny there was a correlation now without detail about perpetrators would be playing into the hands of the opposite side.

Hear fucking hear!

 

[treelover]

cf us 1980 100000+ cubans

As an aside, Castro pushed out all his criminals, but are there stats for how many went on to offend in the U.S, leaving aside the king pins.

 

[elbows]

If you went to a street party and significant numbers of the people around you spent the night assaulting women, and in some cases cornering them and raping them, would you continue to just hang around and drink? I can understand not intervening, it must be incredibly frightening to be in that situation, but staying and giving them cover? Whoever did that was complicit in what went on.

I hope it is clear from my recent replies that I am very interested in this stuff too, and I have not shut the door to concepts such as complicity.

I should point out that I originally started ranting about sloppy media use of '1000 perpetrators' stuff yesterday because a German police spokesman had misspoken about this previously, and then went out of his way to clarify to the media at a later briefing, but the likes of the Independent were still sticking with the unclear language. They were not making any reference to the nature of complicity within the crowd, and so I do not think their words were helpful, they play to other agendas that already had more than enough imagined fuel at the time. Real facts may emerge that fan those flames further and if they do then I will not try to fight them with denial. But I will fight assumptions and generalisations and the desire to cast as wide a net as possible without due care to those who don't deserve a backlash any more than the assault victims deserved what they got on new years eve.

 

[ViolentPanda]

There's a number of people on this forum who regularly follow me around threads denouncing me as a fascist . An actual real proper one, not just as a generic insult. For years now. They're very serious about it and have long wanted to have me banned . Others openly urge others to report my posts on the most spurious of grounds.

There be wankers here, lefty wankers .

I'll point out here I spent the early half of new years eve on a mostly anarchist demonstration in Berlin , ending up outside a miserable bloody prison to show solidarity with left wing prisoners. Freezing my bloody balls off . In solidarity .
I shouldn't have to point that out to anyone but we all have our crosses to bear .

Gordon brown once denounced an elderly lady as racist on similar grounds. Didn't end well for him. But the circle jerk continues as the left slides further into irrelevance and further up its own arrogant , shreiking, accusatory backside .

Denouncing you as a fascist would be inaccurate and wrongheaded.

What you are is a gobshite and a tool.

 

[treelover]

Basically what Casually Red just said. That criminal elements have taken advantage of a genuine refugee crisis. That requires we do something to ensure an efficient and safe processing of asylum seekers, to keep tabs on new arrivals until they have settled in. To weed out the wronguns.

Unfortunately, if you are claiming asylum, background checks with regards to previous criminal activity are forgone. Its one of the reasons why people will choose to claim "asylum" as opposed to other ways of entry into a country. Its an issue ive brought up before in this forum (criminal elements getting mixed in with genuine asylum seekers) but i was hounded for being a "rascist".

This has has happened in many countries over the centuries with mass migration, especially in the U.S, Mafia, Yazuka, etc.

 

[treelover]

I very much doubt it, it was dark, there were a lot of people involved, and its politically highly flammable.

I think maybe all we'll have here is the testimony of the victims, which was not a about migrants / refugees just said that the men who attacked them were kind of swarthyish and that German was not spoken whilst they were being attacked.

It would be so much better for "us" if they hadn't reported what happened to them, or hadn't given any sort of description of the perps.

The German police, may have been inneficent on this occasion, they won't be again, they wiped out Baader/Meinhof/RAF using various methods, many of the poor unfortunate women will have left DNA on the creatures clothings, etc, if they want to get them they could. Mother has taken it on as a personal crusade now and all federal agencies are to utilised in identifying the scum.

 

[elbows]

Apprently , a lot the attackers were very drunk, some on drugs, afaik, not a very Islamic thing to do

This sounds like a crap war on terror sentiment has leaked into another topic.

 

[BigMoaner]

100s of ks of people in need, small number of which are cunts who need deporting/locking up. Don't care how traumatised they maybe, you don't start sexually assaulting in frustration. The left would do better to stand in solidarity with the victims of the sexual assaults and the genuine people in need than worrying about what is racist/backlashes or not.

 

[ViolentPanda]

If you went to a street party and significant numbers of the people around you spent the night assaulting women, and in some cases cornering them and raping them, would you continue to just hang around and drink? I can understand not intervening, it must be incredibly frightening to be in that situation, but staying and giving them cover? Whoever did that was complicit in what went on.

Having walked through the area where the Cologne NYE celebrations were held, I'm somewhat cynical about the "1,000 men" figure, purely on the basis of the public space around Cologne hauptbahnhof and Cologne's twin-spired cathedral isn't exactly massive. It's no Trafalgar Square, proportions-wise.

 

[elbows]

The left would do better to stand in solidarity with the victims of the sexual assaults and the genuine people in need than worrying about what is racist/backlashes or not.

But in many specific aspects the worry about racist backlashes is exactly the same as caring about genuine people in need.

All those things can be done together, they are not incompatible as long as things like denial are not used as a tool.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Don't look for validity in this place. There are too many members not wanting to appear/feel "right wing" or like a "Daily Mail reader" as opposed to just having their own views and having rational discussions. They tend to be far more closed minded and ignorant than the "fascists" they claim everyone else is.

Self-pitying, much?

 

[treelover]

Can you point out in which way you think that the media reports were misleading? The initial reports, or lack thereof, did seem misleading but only insofar as there seems to have been a pretty clear goal of either entirely covering up these assaults and rapes and/or being ambiguous about the background of the attackers.

Honestly how well do you think the, 'but white people rape too' or 'it isn't all Muslims' fault because it's actually the fault of men in general' is going to look to most normal people? It looks like a cowardly cop out and an absolute failure to acknowledge the fact that a gang of a thousand and smaller gangs of hundreds took part in a mass sexual assault and rape spree.

Some social media report are saying it was orchestrated, if thats the case, its a game changer

I completely agree with you about the Left, its now degenerate, plenty attacked the police/social workers, etc in Rotherham, rather than the perpetrators. they seem also here in the Uk, to let disabled people die. DWP told woman she was not ill enough for benefit on day she died

 

[ViolentPanda]

I don't think the Spiegel is the way to go - it says
"People reportedly demonstratively tore up residence permits in front of the police, grinned and said: "You can't touch me. I'll just go back tomorrow and get a new one." The report did not, however, confirm the authenticity of the documents."

That sounds a bit mad and made up.
Spiegel in German = Mirror (literally and I think - check out the photos - politically too)

Anyone familiar with German bureaucracy would find that a little dubious, given that for the last 6 months the media has been making a big deal about it taking weeks for people to get even basic papers.

 

[treelover]

This shit was clarified days ago, its the conflation of the size of a total crowd with the number of actual perpetrators that I'm complaining about.

My complaints would be counterproductive if they went so far as to only acknowledge the actions of individual perpetrators or very small groups. Because I would not be at all surprising if there are crowd-related phenomenon here that are a worthy part of the story. But the characterisations of there being '1000 perpetrators' seems very unlikely to do the reality justice, and the police felt the need to point out that they are not on the hunt for 1000 suspects or anything like that number.

One is enough to rape a woman, not just wolf packs of 30.

 

[elbows]

Some social media report srae saying it was orchestrated, if thats the case, its a game changer

I completely agree with you about the Left, its now degenerate, plenty attacked the police/social workers, etc in Rotherham, rather than the perpetrators. they seem also here in the Uk, to let disabled people die. DWP told woman she was not ill enough for benefit on day she died

Oh shit its the degeneration game with Bruce Forcestrife.

 

[treelover]

Call me a naive idiot feminist newbie with too many degrees in the totally racist subject called anthropology,but.. fuck. The silence of the left is like a bell tolling, it's scary.

Its been like that with the suicides of disabled claimants, with some exceptions.

 

[treelover]

A man is quoted as saying: "I'm a Syrian! You have to treat me kindly! Mrs. Merkel invited me."

Oh dear, one thing i noticed is how entitled a lot of the young male middle class men who were determined to get to Germany were, the families didn't seem to be.

 

[treelover]

I don't think the Spiegel is the way to go - it says
"People reportedly demonstratively tore up residence permits in front of the police, grinned and said: "You can't touch me. I'll just go back tomorrow and get a new one." The report did not, however, confirm the authenticity of the documents."

That sounds a bit mad and made up.
Spiegel in German = Mirror (literally and I think - check out the photos - politically too)

De Spiegele is a very very pro migration journal/magazine(not a red top), i don't think it would sensationalise events

 

[bimble]

De Spiegele is a very very pro migration journal/magazine(not a red top), i don't think it would sensationalise events

ok thanks. I am not German & don't know much at all about the german press (just speak the language, fairly badly).
The Spiegel has a story on right now that is headlined "Why do many Arab countries have a notable problem with sexual violence against women: An attempt to explain the problem" .
In current mood, following the preceding non-discussion here, I'm inclined to think that's not right wing at all, but an intersting question to be asked - I'll have read in my not very good german.
In vielen arabischen Ländern gibt es regelmäßig sexuelle Gewalt gegen Frauen. Wie kommt das? - Gerechtigkeit - bento

 

[treelover]

If this type of mass sexual assault had any history in modern German society you'd have a point. However it doesn't and you don't. This type of rape culture didn't exist in Germany until these vile criminals were let cross the German border
Unchecked and unhindered .
And remember its 3 cities this occurred in simultaneously , cologne being the worst example . Germans didn't do this , it's not German rape culture. That's why the issue of who crosses borders into Germany is actually important . And if this is going to be a feature of German life, now after 3 cities are affected on the same night , then the border issue is going to become even more important.
Telling people what they can and can't talk about is utterly ridiculous. Absolutely infantile. " ranting ", fuck off.

Surely you mean since 1945, the Wermacht raped their way across half the world.

 

[Casually Red]

Denouncing you as a fascist would be inaccurate and wrongheaded.

What you are is a gobshite and a tool.

Not fucking " would be " ...is. And well you know it . That's the work of actual gobshites and tools. Who do it regularly . Yesterday the most recent example.

And you're a dreary oul bollix nobody even listens to .

 

[Casually Red]

Surely you mean since 1945, the Wermacht raped their way across half the world.

Yeah...I said modern German society.

They didn't rape their way across cologne either .

 

[ViolentPanda]

Not fucking " would be " ...is. And well you know it . That's the work of actual gobshites and tools. Who do it regularly . Yesterday the most recent example.

And you're a dreary oul bollix nobody even listens to .

And yet you replied, even though nobody listens to me.

 

[treelover]

100s of ks of people in need, small number of which are cunts who need deporting/locking up. Don't care how traumatised they maybe, you don't start sexually assaulting in frustration. The left would do better to stand in solidarity with the victims of the sexual assaults and the genuine people in need than worrying about what is racist/backlashes or not.

On CH4 News, A Syrian volunteer at Cologne station who meets the migrants at the station from their journey incredibly just said he understand why it happens, "they have nothing to do, cannot work", etc, he seemed educated, humane, etc, so wtf. He was asked if he condoned it, but I didn't catch the rest

 

[treelover]

Having walked through the area where the Cologne NYE celebrations were held, I'm somewhat cynical about the "1,000 men" figure, purely on the basis of the public space around Cologne hauptbahnhof and Cologne's twin-spired cathedral isn't exactly massive. It's no Trafalgar Square, proportions-wise.

I have seen fairly large protests there.

 

[Casually Red]

The German police, may have been inneficent on this occasion, they won't be again, they wiped out Baader/Meinhof/RAF using various methods, many of the poor unfortunate women will have left DNA on the creatures clothings, etc, if they want to get them they could. Mother has taken it on as a personal crusade now and all federal agencies are to utilised in identifying the scum.

They've had a 4 day head start thanks to the liberal cover up . Well handy .

 

[elbows]

In current mood, following the preceding non-discussion here, I'm inclined to think that's not right wing at all, but an intersting question to be asked - I'll have read in my not very good german.

It's a very interesting and disturbing subject. It got quite a lot of attention when it became clear that there were repeated instances of widespread sexual abuse going on in a number of contexts in Egypt, especially certain occasions at Tahrir square. Victims included western female journalists so there was an additional magnitude of attention given towards the issue in the press for a period of time.

I don't think people are afraid to discuss this subject. I just think many people, myself included, wanted to get some perpetrator details with reasonable certainty before deciding whether its appropriate to go there in the context of the cologne attacks. I need confirmation of specific nationalities for a start, because there are variations in the detail of this sexual violence issue between countries of the region.

 

[Casually Red]

And yet you replied, even though nobody listens to me.

Yes but I have manners. It'd be dreadfully rude to ignore you...like all the others .

 

[andysays]

100s of ks of people in need, small number of which are cunts who need deporting/locking up. Don't care how traumatised they maybe, you don't start sexually assaulting in frustration.

I still haven't seen any evidence at all which demonstrates that this is what's happened, despite a number of posters on this thread seeming to have accepted and to now be repeating/encouraging this line as if it's an established truth.

The left would do better to stand in solidarity with the victims of the sexual assaults and the genuine people in need than worrying about what is racist/backlashes or not.

It's perfectly possible to do both those things, and "the left" should be ensuring that we do both, in as far as we can. And to be honest those who are shouting loudest about the supposed involvement of refugees and whipping up hatred and hysteria on the back of it, including on this thread but not including you personally, don't actually appear to me to be showing very much real solidarity with the victims of these or any other sexual assaults.

There are times reading Urban when I fucking despair, and this thread and the turn it seems to have taken today with the very vocal involvement of a handful of posters is unfortunately one of those times.

 

[bimble]

De Spiegele is a very very pro migration journal/magazine(not a red top), i don't think it would sensationalise events

ok.
The Spiegel article is saying (to start with) what I was too scared to say: A lot of this (in Delhi also for instance) is to do with the media - porn and hollywood etc appearing on the phones of people who have no clue about the context in which what they are consuming is produced.
The article says "Den Film "Sex and the City" versteht er eher als Dokumentarfilm denn als Hollywood-Fantasie. "
I'm sure that's easy to translate to anyone, without mentioning online porn-related confusion at all.