How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?

[free spirit]

And just in case it still isnt clear, I was groaning that the obituary didnt see fit to mention what any of the troubles were. I assume at least one of them was his son.

I'd say that was pretty much certain given that his son had died from aids 2 years earlier.

The question is whether this in itself was the only troubles his son gave him, but IIRC this is the guy who actually reported one of the boys he'd been sleeping with to the police for stealing from him, which I'd submit as evidence* that the troubles he'd given his dad went a long way further back than that.



*well, I would if I could remember where the link was for this.

 

[Woollyredhat]

Separately, I also note how Rob Wilson MP has been quick from the get-go to squash and undermine the recent reports and investigations into the child abuse scandals in various ways. Is he doing somebody's bidding? I only lay across the facts and wonder why he has been so instrumental in trying to nonsense it from the get go.
If I am wrong in any of the following, please do correct me.

When Tom Watson first raised the matter of child abuse and it links to a senior govermental aide within No.10 in the parliament, was it not Wilson on Sky News almost immediately afterwards who instantly rubished the idea?

After the ITV reporting, involving the now infamous list that Scholfield handed to Cameron, Wilson wrote to Ofcom to complain and ask them to investigate. Once again, this would help undermine the investigations. Just on this note, and irrelevant to Wilson, Guido Fawkes led the charge, which later led Scholfield to apologize, that the list he presented was visible and some names were readable. This is uncorrabated bullshit as of present. There is not a single screen grab to indicate that names were revealed. Yes Scholfiled did allow the sheet to be in the cameras focus, but it was too far away and too quick to be picked up. Unless there is some super technology, with the help of slow-motion that allows somebody curious enough to zoom in to read the names, But there is no screen grab. In the internet age this surprises me greatly.

Back on track, following the report by Newsnight, Rob Wilson, why always him, wrote to Ofcom once again, to complain about the report into a senior tory politician which is now the subject of much debate and has landed them in trouble.

His latest pursuit is against Tom Watson, warning him to be careful in the way he goes about using Parliament privledge. This is completely irrelevant to the Newsnight slant, as all Watson has done as of yet was to put it to the Prime Minister about investigating allegations of child abuse links to No 10. from the Thatcher era, based on evidence corrobated from the Righton case. His correspondance to Watson can be read here: http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffee...lson-attacks-tom-watson-on-child-abuse-claims

His intervention into each detail of the investigation so far is revealing in any case.

 

[free spirit]

I suspect that these activities, which I knew, and all the many others which I did not know, were not only welcome in themselves but also as a distraction from troubles, which seemed to come to him unfairly often. He bore them without complaint, and with the same fortitude that he stood his own infirmities.

I also picked up on this bit, which presumably would include (and I assumed were directly alluding to) the 32 years he spent as Grand Master of the North Wales Freemasons from 1958-90, which presumably took up a considerable proportion of his time through that period.

And any other aspects of his life the author wasn't aware of or didn't see fit to mention in the obit.

http://www.nwmasons.org/history.html

 

[free spirit]

There is not a single screen grab to indicate that names were revealed. Yes Scholfiled did allow the sheet to be in the cameras focus, but it was too far away and too quick to be picked up. Unless there is some super technology, with the help of slow-motion that allows somebody curious enough to zoom in to read the names, But there is no screen grab. In the internet age this surprises me greatly.

I tried and it's definitely impossible from the youtube footage.

Could be that it's doable from a Hi definition screenshot though.

 

[Woollyredhat]

I tried and it's definitely impossible from the youtube footage.

Could be that it's doable from a Hi definition screenshot though.

If anyone can prove it then fair enough, but I doubt it somehow. Things blew up majorly only when it was suggested that names could be read on the sheet. So says Fawkes, who else?

 

[elbows]

let's find out shall we? or didn't it occur to you to investigate?

Was my point that no obituary dared to even mention his sons death? No, it was that the specific obituary I linked to made passing reference to the troubles he had to endure, without expanding on the point.

It wasnt supposed to be a major point, it was a minor aside in part sponsored by the fact that much earlier in this thread we had looked at a few obituaries for innuendo, hints etc.

 

[Pickman's model]

Was my point that no obituary dared to even mention his sons death?

there's no hope for you if you have to ask what your point was

 

[elbows]

If anyone can prove it then fair enough, but I doubt it somehow. Things blew up majorly only when it was suggested that names could be read on the sheet. So says Fawkes, who else?

I think it would still have blown up in about the same way even if that aspect hadnt been suggested.

 

[Woollyredhat]

I think it would still have blown up in about the same way even if that aspect hadnt been suggested.

Maybe, but not as hysterically so. It feeds into the Newsnight angle of revealing names of suspected people and undermines the bigger picture.

 

[elbows]

there's no hope for you if you have to ask what your point was

Yes, you've exposed me to the world as a hopeless cause, discredited and impotent. Now I'm even going to have to check whether I'm a mason, that might explain it. Just you wait till I'm mayor.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes, you've exposed me to the world as a hopeless cause, discredited and impotent. Now I'm even going to have to check whether I'm a mason, that might explain it. Just you wait till I'm mayor.

i think i'll just wait till you're sober

 

[elbows]

With investigative and intuitive powers like that I suggest you apply for the job of newsnight editor. I don't tend to drink and surf, and in any case I havent touched a drop for weeks.

 

[Pickman's model]

With investigative and intuitive powers like that I suggest you apply for the job of newsnight editor. I don't tend to drink and surf, and in any case I havent touched a drop for weeks.

yes: but i've only your word for that. and i have yet to see any corroborative evidence for your assertion.

 

[elbows]

Shaken not slurred, Mr Bond.

 

[dylans]

This whole BBC/newsnight "scandal" is beyond farce. As far as I am aware they didn't name anyone yet they are apologising for the name of a person they didn't name becoming widely known because the name of the person who they didn't name has been named by others on the web. Now it turns out that the person who they didn't name is innocent of the accusations that newsnight didn't make and so the BBC is to blame because he was named by others. Makes perfect sense.

 

[elbows]

This whole BBC/newsnight "scandal" is turning into a farce. As far as I am aware they didn't name anyone yet they are apologising for the name of a person they didn't name becoming widely known because the name of the person who they didn't name has been named by others on the web. Now it turns out that the person who they didn't name is innocent of the accusations that newsnight didn't make and so the BBC is to blame because he was named by others. Makes perfect sense.

There are many farcical aspects but the Guardian article I linked to on the previous page goes a long way to explaining why it isnt quite that straightforward. Past journalistic investigations, both sound and scurrilous, and the echos of them that lingered on the internet for years are what tinge the Newsnight stuff with the stench of editorial doom.

 

[free spirit]

Newsnight have done everyone involved a favor IMO, albeit in a cackhanded way.

They've forced out into the open a persistent rumor that's been circulating for nearly 15 years or so precisely because the report tried to cover it up instead of just naming names but at the same time saying they'd believed the allegation not to be true for reasons x. y and z.

Lord McAlpine should be thanking newsnight for giving him the opportunity to clear his name in public instead of having to continue to live under that cloud IMO.

and for the rest of us, it removes that name and source of speculation from the picture.

 

[smokedout]

Take for example the title of this thread. A long term high level paedophile ring. The focus on 'high level' seems to do a potential disservice to possible realities, which are more about people who know each other but are not all on the highest of levels.

I've found it helpful to think of it as analogous to the drugs scene - less a conspiracy than people held together by a shared interest in keeping things secret - I think networks are probably more fluid and expansive than people imagine

 

[smokedout]

which just made me think of another factor which is where does money come into this, if at all?

 

[LoveMeDont]

Now it turns out that the person who they didn't name is innocent of the accusations that newsnight didn't make and so the BBC is to blame because he was named by others. Makes perfect sense.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/nov/10/newsnight-mcalpine-scoop-rumour

I don't know how libel laws work, but the the Guardian is saying that people associated with Newsnight revealed his name with a nod and a wink before the episode was transmitted.

Even ignoring that though, journalists have apparently known for years that McAlpine was innocent, so why did Newsnight run the story at all?

 

[free spirit]

which just made me think of another factor which is where does money come into this, if at all?

yep - it seems fairly obvious that someone will have been getting paid for supplying young boys from welsh (and probably other) homes for sex parties for London toffs in London, which is one of the allegation that was made in the last couple of days by one of the boys who alleges he was a regular at these sex parties.

 

[Treacle Toes]

“@ChrisMasonBBC: A spokeswoman for the BBC has told BBC News that there will be a short statement at 9 o'clock this evening. #Newsnight

 

[free spirit]

Even ignoring that though, journalists have apparently known for years that McAlpine was innocent, so why did Newsnight run the story at all?

that's a bit unfair.

AFAIK there's no centralised repository for things that journalists know but haven't published, so while some journalists may well have known this following their own investigations over the years, the newsnight journalists obviously didnt, and neither did 99% of the internet.

Look at this another way - how would it have looked if it had come out that newsnight had sat on a specific allegation against a someone like Lord McAlpine despite having a direct accusation by the alleged victim on tape? Following on from them sitting on the savile investigation they'd have been slaughtered.

 

[elbows]

Its all gone so pearshaped that I wouldnt even be surprised if they kill newsnight.

 

[Treacle Toes]

They (twitter world) are saying that G.Entwistle has resigned.

Statement outside Broadcasting house soon.

Resignation of BBC DG is the main story on Sky News, but not on BBC News at 9pm.

 

[elbows]

That wouldnt be surprising either.

 

[Barking_Mad]

If anyone can prove it then fair enough, but I doubt it somehow. Things blew up majorly only when it was suggested that names could be read on the sheet. So says Fawkes, who else?

Fawkes posted the video and blurred out the text, suggesting of course that without the blurring you could read it. Fawkes is of course a cunt.

 

[Buckaroo]

Newsnight have done everyone involved a favor IMO, albeit in a cackhanded way.

They've forced out into the open a persistent rumor that's been circulating for nearly 15 years or so precisely because the report tried to cover it up instead of just naming names but at the same time saying they'd believed the allegation not to be true for reasons x. y and z.

Lord McAlpine should be thanking newsnight for giving him the opportunity to clear his name in public instead of having to continue to live under that cloud IMO.

and for the rest of us, it removes that name and source of speculation from the picture.

Good point. Cackhanded but it clears the decks and begs the question 'If not him then who? and who else?' It puts pressure on new investigations to join the dots in public and present a big dotty picture of the whole sordid mess. Unless Newsnight are in on it too and that's a new mess. I've said it before, I'll say it again I think Kirsty Wark is a mason and there's Paul Mason. Join the dots.

 

[free spirit]

Good point. Cackhanded but it clears the decks and begs the question 'If not him then who? and who else?' It puts pressure on new investigations to join the dots in public and present a big dotty picture of the whole sordid mess. Unless Newsnight are in on it too and that's a new mess. I've said it before, I'll say it again I think Kirsty Wark is a mason and there's Paul Mason. Join the dots.

I think I'll be avoiding those particular dots.

 

[Buckaroo]

I think I'll be avoiding those particular dots.

Me too and I think I got that wrong. it doesn't really clear the decks at all. It just gets messier.