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How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?

free spirit

free spirit

more tea vicar?
Following the Jimmy Savile revelations, there seems to be a pattern emerging of evidence that there could well have been a network of high powered establishment figures, and officials involved in long running organised paedophile activity.

This has long been rumoured, but largely dismissed as conspiracy theory stuff. In the wake of the Jimmy Savile revelations, I seriously think this deserves some closer scrutiny outside of the JS focused threads.

There seem to be a number of hints and leads supporting the idea that this network has used childrens homes, approved schools, and similar state institutions for children to supply kids to members of the network, presumably because they're much less likely to be believed if they ever said anything, and can be easily punished by those running the institutions if they tried to speak out.

This thread is aimed at joining the dots of public domain evidence of locations, related prosecutions, witness / personal accounts, and related evidence (from reputable sources only please).

This thread is *NOT* a thread for naming names of anyone still living who's not been found guilty in court. Anyone naming names is likely to get this thread closed, and / or potentially the editor being sued and the site closed down.

There are a long list of institutions where long term systemic abuse has been proven in court over the last few decades, but these prosecutions largely seem to focus on individuals, and ignore or actually hide evidence of the involvement of wider networks of abusers, including for starters;

North Wales - 70s-90s, Cartrefle and Bryn Alyn

3 children's home staff / owner were found guilty in court between 1990-94 of various sexual abuse offences at 2 homes.

A wide ranging police inquiry apparently collected evidence against 365 people, and arrested 25, although only the 3 ended up in court.

The Independent reported on claims about wider involvement, and ended up being successfully sued by one, but a panel set up by the council to investigate the wider accusations seems to have largely supported them in their report. The council didn't publish the report, but the Independent got hold of a copy and published articles based on it that then forced a major public inquiry, which resulted in 650 children making accusations about abuse at 40 homes.

There have been questions raised about the methods used in the inquiry, particularly former residents being told that they'd be in line for compensation payouts (with £3 million eventually paid out) - something that has also been raised as an issue to discredit the findings of other investigations.

BUT there have also been serious allegations (Guardian) that the inquiry effectively acted as a smokescreen, and covered the involvement of multiple highly placed individuals by imposing a blanket ban on the press naming anyone named at the inquiry.

* A man who bears the same surname as a prominent Conservative supporter. Two witnesses have told the tribunal of a rich and powerful man who belonged to the alleged ring.
* The son of an influential peer who admitted to police that he had been having sex with an under-aged boy from one of the homes. Despite his admission, he was never prosecuted.
* A powerful public official who has previously been cleared of abuse. Six different witnesses have given separate accounts to the tribunal of his alleged rape of young boys. Another has reported him attending parties in Wrexham which were supplied with boys from a children’s home.
* Two social workers and two police officers, one of whom was accused of abuse on four separate occasions and exonerated each time, another of whom has since been jailed in another part of the country for gross indecency with a child.
* More than a dozen other local men, including an executive with a local authority, a senior probation officer and a director of a major company.
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[Nick Davies / Guardian - 1997]
 
​
Haute De La Garenne in Jersey, and now through savile, Broadmoor and several girls schools, and seemingly the LGI and are fairly fresh in the mind, but there's a long list of childrens homes and residential care homes that have suffered from similar abuse cases over the last 40 years, some of which are listed here.



Twelve paedophiles who preyed on hundreds of vulnerable youths in children's homes in Cheshire and Merseyside were exposed by one of the biggest investigations into child sex abuse ever mounted. Eleven have received lengthy prison sentences.
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[independent]

____________________________________________________________________________​

This article makes fairly credible looking allegations about how a network of apparently interconnected abusers was able to develop from working together at one home in the late 60s, through the social services network to the point where members of this apparent network were in positions such as the principal of a boys school, staff at multiple homes several childrens homes (that were later the centre of widespread abuse), and interconnected on their career paths with others who became heads of schools, many having been lectured by a now convicted child abuser who went on to an influential position close to government decision making on child care.

Another ended running the panel of a council's child protection service, and another worked on an adoption panel.

According to this article, they all claim to have been operating alone, but with several of them having either worked together at the same time at the same home when abuse was later discovered to have been going on, and others having been lectured by the same abuser, or been given jobs by one of the others, this stretches credibility IMO.

The article also repeats an allegation that keeps cropping up surrounding the deaths of 2 related witnesses in the wales cases, along with the suicide of the person who'd admitted starting the fire in one of the 2 deaths.

I think I've checked most of the names out, and they do all seem to have been convicted, but to be on the safe side, I've not repeated the names here. I can't vouch for the credibility of the site or the links it makes between those involved, but all the points I have checked out have been supported.

_____________________________________________________________________________


In the Haut De La Garenne case, specific allegations have been made about children effectively being swapped 'on holiday' from abusive childrens homes all over the country to HDLG and back.

Liz Davies, the former Islington senior social worker who bravely blew the whistle on the scandal, said last night: 'It is becoming clear that children at Haut de la Garenne were sent on holiday to children's homes in England which were also notorious for abuse, while the children in the English homes they went to were sent to Haut de la Garenne. They literally swapped beds.'
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[mail]
Again, this could be coincidence, but... and then Jimmy Savile just happens to chose to frequent HDLG as well. I just don't believe any of this was accidental, it's far more likely that those involved knew what was going on, who the kindred spirits were / are, and actively collaborated together in some form.
 
_____________________________________________________________________________​

There are other hints coming out at the moment, such as an aside in the Panorama report on Savile last night by Merion Jones who's Aunt ran Duncroft girls school, which he apparently visited as a kid, describing it as.

‘a very strange place, full of celebrities and minor members of the Royal family
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wtf were celebrities and minor royals doing hanging around at an institutional residential girls school, particularly one where it now turns out that Savile was routinely abusing probably dozens of underage girls in the same time period.

_____________________________________________________________________________​
There are also persistent comments from multiple sources about either the involvement or knowledge of MI5 in some capacity.

This is alleged to have begun in Northern Ireland at Kincora boys school in the 70s when a worker at the school who was also a loyalist commander as well as being a child abuser (eventually convicted) is alleged to have been an MI5 informant, with MI5 effectively blackmailing him with the child abuse evidence to force him to act as their informant, as well as using the school as a honey trap to give them dirt on other targets to force them into informing for them as well.

These allegations continue into at least the welsh situation, essentially alleging that again MI5 either used these homes as honey traps to get them incriminating evidence against people they wanted to force to work for them, or at least being aware of what was going on and choosing to use the evidence to gain them informants instead of putting a stop to it.

I've not really found hard evidence against MI5 on this, but this is a persistent claim that's been going on for 3 decades, originating apparently with a security services source who was then forced out for revealing it - it's been reported on by Private Eye, Scallywag and I think Channel 4 news at various points. In light of some of the other stuff the security services got up to in Northern Ireland in the pursuit of gaining and keeping touts in both camps, I'd say this part of the allegation is pretty credible, and if they did it there, it's fairly likely they'd have repeated the same methods elsewhere IMO.

It's worth bearing in mind here that similar situations have been exposed in recent years elsewhere in Europe, so it wouldn't be without precedent.
 
I'm not posting this up as definitive proof of anything, more as a starting point for discussion and a hope that others will add to the pool of evidence / information.

There just seem to be far too many coincidences going on here, far too much interconnection, and far too widespread activity that has gone on for decades, for there not to be more to the JS allegations than just another lone paedophile operating alone for 50+ years and just happening to stumble across all these handy places to abuse kids with inpunity IMO.

discuss.... (or tldr probably)
 
bugger, I meant to use the word 'network' in the thread title, as ring implies it's a relatively small closed group, whereas I suspect it's actually more of a loose network where word of places such as HDLG, Kincora etc are spread either via word of mouth, or possibly via some form of middlemen, or both.


or maybe I've just read too many books
 
Fez909 said:
I think the guy who writes for that blog is fash and you should break the link. As far as I know he collects newspaper articles and posts them, so find the original source and post that if possible.
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I've removed the link as I can't see to break it as this forum software seems to keep remaking the broken link when I break it.

If anyone can find the original article while I still have editing rights I'll add that in instead.

eta - found it, it was Nick Davies again.
 
free spirit said:
I've removed the link as I can't see to break it as this forum software seems to keep remaking the broken link when I break it.

If anyone can find the original article while I still have editing rights I'll add that in instead.
Click to expand...

I think one way to break it easily is to click the icon which has two 'A's on the top right of the editing window. You should then see the full markup used to post your comment. There'll be a bit representing the link's visible text, and a bit which is the link itself. Do some magic in there and you're good to go.
 
I reckon this telegraph article from a few years ago belongs in this thread as well.

Confidential papers, obtained by The Sunday Telegraph, have revealed that the BBC allowed MI5 to investigate the backgrounds and political affiliations of -thousands of its employees, including newsreaders, reporters and continuity announcers.
The files, which shed light on the BBC's hitherto secret links with the Security Service, show that at one stage it was responsible for vetting 6,300 different BBC posts - almost a third of the total workforce.
The BBC's reliance on MI5 reached a peak in the late 1970s and early 1980s at exactly the same time as millions of viewers were tuning into the fictional adventures of George Smiley in Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy and -Smiley's People.
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It seems a wee bit unlikely that Jimmy Savile, one of the BBC's highest profile presenters in the 70s and 80s would have escaped MI5's attention.

This leads to the conclusion that either MI5 were completely incompetent, and missed JS's activities for decades while they were carrying out these background checks, or they knew about it and just chose to ignore it without any ulteria motive, or they knew about it and maybe used their evidence to force JS to become a tout for them or worse.

That'd certainly explain his ability to hide his activities in plain site, and the willingness of the BBC to not expect there to be any truth to the rumours about him (if he'd been cleared by MI5), as well as the willingness to hand over the running of Broadmoor to him - if MI5 had cleared him already.

It'd also potentially explain some of the odd stuff he hinted at in his theroux interview and elsewhere. It seems quite likely he'd have been an MI5 tout for decades.

That'd also put his apparent frequent chequers visits at Christmas with several different prime ministers into a different light - not just a quirky old entertainer, or even a paedo, but a long time MI5 tout having cosy fireside chats with the PMs of the day for 2 decades.
 
Dandred said:
I hope that whoever it is, is brought to Justice by the State.
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it actually seems vaguely possible that it could happen now, as savile was just too high profile and too prolific, which might make it harder to keep a lid on.

I'm sure they tried keeping a lid on it last year with the shelving of the newsnight item. I don't buy the idea that the newsnight editor would drop it over night just because the BBC were planning a JS christmas special.

Surely if there is any truth to the rumours then enough kids abused by other famous or less famous but still high level people will come forward publicly to name them alongside Savile. Then again, there'll no doubt be a lot of effort to discredit them / suppress their allegations with threats of suing for libel etc (or just the possibility that there could be a threat of this happening).

hopefully public outcry and the change of the generations at the top of these organisations will result in it all coming out now. There's a fair chance it won't though, at least not without being forced out - hence this thread, as my part in raising the wider questions now.
 
free spirit said:
I reckon this telegraph article from a few years ago belongs in this thread as well.



It seems a wee bit unlikely that Jimmy Savile, one of the BBC's highest profile presenters in the 70s and 80s would have escaped MI5's attention.

This leads to the conclusion that either MI5 were completely incompetent, and missed JS's activities for decades while they were carrying out these background checks, or they knew about it and just chose to ignore it without any ulteria motive, or they knew about it and maybe used their evidence to force JS to become a tout for them or worse.

That'd certainly explain his ability to hide his activities in plain site, and the willingness of the BBC to not expect there to be any truth to the rumours about him (if he'd been cleared by MI5), as well as the willingness to hand over the running of Broadmoor to him - if MI5 had cleared him already.

It'd also potentially explain some of the odd stuff he hinted at in his theroux interview and elsewhere. It seems quite likely he'd have been an MI5 tout for decades.

That'd also put his apparent frequent chequers visits at Christmas with several different prime ministers into a different light - not just a quirky old entertainer, or even a paedo, but a long time MI5 tout having cosy fireside chats with the PMs of the day for 2 decades.
Click to expand...

This is all possible, but I'd be wary about making assumptions based on security vetting. All security clearance means is that this person is not a liability to the state. So, you can be a paedo, but still get security clearance.

One of the purposes of SC is to check that you don't have any secrets hiding in your closet that you could put you in a position where you might be forced into revealing sensitive information to third parties in a blackmail scenario. Now, JS was definitely is a position where he could be blackmailed, given the skeletons, but I doubt he had access to any secret information which could be damaging to the state. Therefore, he would (I'm guessing here) be given security clearance regardless of his murky past.
 
Still waiting for the name of names and how many max clifford protected so we can nail his name to the post
:mad:
 
Kincora Boys' Home
sadly more


PRINCE Charles’s mentor Lord Mountbatten – murdered by the IRA more than 20 years ago – has also been sensationally linked to the notorious Kincora Boys’ Home scandal in east Belfast.


A book called ‘War ofthe Windsors’ Claims that rumours had “even linked him with the notorious scandal surrounding the Kincora Boys’ Home, where a network of teenage boys were made available to VIPs.”

It states: “Of all the recent Royals, none was so consistently immoral and unprincipled as the late Lord Mountbatten.

“Both he and his wife Edwina were bisexual, and they led a life of unbridled promiscuity.

“He was also said to have an interest in what homosexuals call ‘rough trade’ and to be particularly attracted to working-class boys in their early teens.”
Click to expand...
 
MI-5 were complete bastards in Ireland ,but,why would they need agents in wales?

As Saville was not in CND I doubt MI5 did anything than tick in the boxes. If he had any lefty links they would have been all over him.
 
Why would js be investigated by mi5?
They might have a file because he met maggie and members of the royal family.
But it would be not a commie. not political job done.
He wouldnt have any security clearance because he had no access to secrets Mi5 dont investigate every celb.
Unless you want a revolution or hang outvwith dubious foreign types yourvnot on there radar.
More likely 70s abuse scandals are finally coming to out.
 
My brother, who is gay, told me about several high-profile figures involved in paedophile networks over 30 years ago. Sexual exploitation and abuse of children and young people sadly seems always to have existed. That the people who do this share 'info' with eachother is not the least bit surprising. But what do we do with it? Imagine calling the police to say, someone told me that MP joe bloggs abuses children and is part of a network, but that's all I have. Its not going to go anywhere, is it? Now we have CEOP (Child exploitation and on-line Protection Centre), who are prepared to take calls of this nature. They may be powerless to act unless there's firm evidence, but they can monitor. Its only a tiny drop in the ocean, but still reassuring to know that there is somewhere to report concerns to. Its all very depressing and scary.
 
Mrs Magpie said:
Was Kincora the one where in the fallout they went for homosexuals because they thought it was same as paedophilia?
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In the stuff I've seen quoted it seems to be taken as read that one is a synonym for the other. I don't recall there being much fallout of any kind from the Kincora case, though, if by fallout you mean action of any sort!
 
theres a story floating around both right wing and liberal blogs that a cabinet minister sexually assaulted a former child actor in the 90s. the minister in question has issued take down notices. unfortunately the child actor is ben fellows, who also recently claimed to have infiltrated olympic security where he claims G4S and EU troops were secretly stockpiling bodybags and planning a mass evacuation of london due to a 'city defining' event which was going to take place during the olympics. fellows was interviewed on infowars and suggested a 'false flag' operation was being planned. he also has a youtube page where he posts pictures of chemtrails he's spotted. this hasnt stopped a couple of reasonably well known bloggers giving credence to and reporting his story and claiming censorship due to the threat of libel action.

so be careful with this stuff.
 
smokedout said:
theres a story floating around both right wing and liberal blogs that a cabinet minister sexually assaulted a former child actor in the 90s. the minister in question has issued take down notices. unfortunately the child actor is ben fellows, who also recently claimed to have infiltrated olympic security where he claims G4S and EU troops were secretly stockpiling bodybags and planning a mass evacuation of london due to a 'city defining' event which was going to take place during the olympics. fellows was interviewed on infowars and suggested a 'false flag' operation was being planned. he also has a youtube page where he posts pictures of chemtrails he's spotted. this hasnt stopped a couple of reasonably well known bloggers giving credence to and reporting his story and claiming censorship due to the threat of libel action.

so be careful with this stuff.
Click to expand...
Yeah, there's discussion along those lines on the Savile threads.
 
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