Hong Kong: what next?

[Rimbaud]

That's inevitably going to happen Streath. IF it's not Wumao then it's going to be some other similar accusation. The reason being that it's intolerable to him, you, and some others that a Canadian would be so outspoken. Canada and Canadians are highly respected as having valid unbiased opinions and those opinions must of necessity be in line with US/Nato propaganda.

Your next move is to promote some sort of 'troll' explanation which can be used to silence unpopular opinions on most forums such as this. Would that please you Streath?

Basically this entire board, including me, are British Communists, Anarchists, and Socialists. There are maybe 2 regular American posters.

Why would we be outraged at a Canadian for having the audacity to disagree with the US?

Your assumption that anyone who criticises the CCP MUST be pro-American and pro-NATO is typical of the infantile binary thinking which passes for official poltical discourse in CCP China, and I have only ever met Chinese people who have such a US-centric view of world affairs.

Dislike of the CCP from international Communists stems from anti-fascism being an important component in left wing politics, and Xi's China being a textbook example of Fascism. No pasaran!

 

[Donald H]

Basically this entire board, including me, are British Communists, Anarchists, and Socialists. There are maybe 2 regular American posters.

Why would we be outraged at a Canadian for having the audacity to disagree with the US?

Your assumption that anyone who criticises the CCP MUST be pro-American and pro-NATO is typical of the infantile binary thinking which passes for official poltical discourse in CCP China, and I have only ever met Chinese people who have such a US-centric view of world affairs.

You can't scratch your way back with dishonesty. Britain has very closely aligned itself with the US and it's wars of aggression throughout the world. And so even though you are proclaiming yourself and others to be commies and anarchists, you're still not failing to come to the defense of the US.

Dislike of the CCP from {by?} international Communists stems from anti-fascism being an important component in left wing politics, and Xi's China being a textbook example of Fascism. No pasaran!

Interesting!
What is it that represents international communism in this 21st. century
and
How in your opinion does China's communist system that practices capitalism, somehow resemble fascism?

I haven't had a good discussion with a commie for so long that I was beginning to think they just didn't exist anymore. Except of course in the minds of Americans who imagine the world's leading socially responsible capitalist countries to be communists.

 

[vanya]

I may not love the American empire but I sure don't think the world would be a better place if the PRC became the hegemon.

Fortunately I don't think it will for the reasons Rimbaud expressed. The Chinese have overplayed their hand and it looks like they could be facing an alliance of Japan, India, ASEAN and the USA.

 

[Donald H]

I may not love the American empire but I sure don't think the world would be a better place if the PRC became the hegemon.

So can you tell us why you feel that way about China? They certainly haven't provided any indication that they will be a military threat. All of their buildup of military might has been toward a defense against the US.

If you're an American then I can understand how China threatens the American way of huge income inequality. America has beaten down their working class so badly now that there's no way to beat them down any further to make American enterprise more competitive with China's.

This clearly calls for the taking down of the American way in order to allow the working class to merely survive. Dog Almighty, the US doesn't even provide high quality health care for all their people yet! And for Americans, breaking free to socially responsible capitalism is still a non-starter. They really do imagine that their country must persist with their greedy form of capitalism

 

[vanya]

Your obsession with the US is becoming tedious. It is quite possible to criticise the US government while also being hostile to the ghastly regime of the PRC.

What about its treatment of the Uighurs? The US, for all its faults, has never in living memory done anything remotely similar.

 

[Artaxerxes]

So can you tell us why you feel that way about China?

The invasive police state and the repeated genocides were my first clue. The added lack of freedom of speech and expression was my second.

 

[Rimbaud]

You can't scratch your way back with dishonesty. Britain has very closely aligned itself with the US and it's wars of aggression throughout the world. And so even though you are proclaiming yourself and others to be commies and anarchists, you're still not failing to come to the defense of the US.

And almost every single poster here opposed those wars. Most of us took part in demonstrations against them.

Nobody - not one person - has come to the defense of the US here.

 

[Donald H]

Your obsession with the US is becoming tedious. It is quite possible to criticise the US government while also being hostile to the ghastly regime of the PRC.

What about its treatment of the Uighurs? The US, for all its faults, has never in living memory done anything remotely similar.

The Uighuars situation is the US grasping at straws again. Jeeezuz Dog Almighty, what about a million people slaughtered in Iraq by the US, based on lies?
In fact, what other major country in the world has a better track record than China? How about the US's favourite apartheid regime in the ME?

Fact is, religious beliefs poisons everything and the Uighuars are no exception. They must now conform to the betterment of the state or China will have to whack them out of existence, by the use of the method used in Iraq!

 

[bimble]

The Uighuars situation is the US grasping at straws again. Jeeezuz Dog Almighty, what about a million people slaughtered in Iraq by the US, based on lies?
In fact, what other major country in the world has a better track record than China? How about the US's favourite apartheid regime in the ME?

Fact is, religious beliefs poisons everything and the Uighuars are no exception. They must now conform to the betterment of the state or China will have to whack them out of existence, by the use of the method used in Iraq!

wow. I think you were right Rimbaud .

 

[Streathamite]

Nobody - not one person - has come to the defense of the US here.

Assuming you man the US State (and of course the Elite who control it) - and I very much think you do - this 100% correct. I'll defend the ordinary people all day long, but not the state.

 

[butchersapron]

Fact is, religious beliefs poisons everything and the Uighuars are no exception. They must now conform to the betterment of the state or China will have to whack them out of existence, by the use of the method used in Iraq!

That should be this prats last post on these boards.

 

[Streathamite]

That should be your last post on these boards.

Sadly, I doubt it will be, although content has been reported

 

[bimble]

If this person really is paid to do this stuff by the Chinese State (as Rimbaud proposed) then it looks a lot like they've just fucked it up royally with the old genocide cheering. Drinking on the job maybe. Very strange whatever it is.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Fact is, religious beliefs poisons everything and the Uighuars are no exception. They must now conform to the betterment of the state or China will have to whack them out of existence, by the use of the method used in Iraq!

You fucking what?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Is this cunt seriously advocating extermination of people due to religious beliefs?

 

[Rimbaud]

Interesting!
What is it that represents international communism in this 21st. century
and
How in your opinion does China's communist system that practices capitalism, somehow resemble fascism?

I haven't had a good discussion with a commie for so long that I was beginning to think they just didn't exist anymore. Except of course in the minds of Americans who imagine the world's leading socially responsible capitalist countries to be communists.

Fascism borrowed the concept of the disciplined Leninist Party but repurposed it for conservative ends and in support of traditional hierarchies. While the Leninist Party was intended to represent the working class and abolish private ownership, Fascism took the disciplined party and used it to create national unity behind a single leader, private property and the exploitation of workers was permitted as long as it was directed towards national goals. This is the same as how China uses a Leninist Party within a capitalist system, but infiltrates private companies with Communist Party cells who ensure they align with national goals. They also give support to "National Champions" - the Nazis threw the weight of the state behind companies like Volkswagan and BMW, just as the CCP throws support behind Huawei and Tencent.

A better question would be, how does it NOT resemble fascism? What would they have to change to be a more classic example of a fascist state?

 

[Rimbaud]

If this person really is paid to do this stuff by the Chinese State (as Rimbaud proposed) then it looks a lot like they've just fucked it up royally with the old genocide cheering. Drinking on the job maybe. Very strange whatever it is.

There's a reason why China is fucking up so badly at diplomacy these days, and you've just had a first hand demonstration.

This is what you get when you cut your population off from external sources of information, educate them with skewed inaccurate nonsense, and then set them out to convert the world which they have zero understanding of.

Chinese education system emphasises how China was beaten by foreign powers because it was weak. This leads to them thinking that whenever a country opposes China, it must be because they think China is weak, so they will act more threatening to show that they are strong and so should be obeyed. This is reflected in the arrogant and callous tone of Wumao propagandists like our friend here. Unfortunately, nobody has considered China to be weak since perhaps World War 2, but Chinese history books don't really teach much of the second half of the 20th Century. They still view the world as essentially like it was in the 19th Century.

 

[Streathamite]

Unfortunately, nobody has considered China to be weak since perhaps World War 2,

Possibly more since the Korean war, which really announced both the PRC and the CCP as serious global players - but this is a very minor and in fact pedantic quibble of mine. The rest of your post was bang on.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

China today fired two ballistic missiles in to the sea, they dubbed them ‘aircraft carrier killers’.

 

[bimble]

So the madly supercilious tone of voice is a standard thing to look out for as well as the content?

 

[Rimbaud]

So the madly supercilious tone of voice is a standard thing to look out for as well as the content?

Yep, the madly supercilious tone seems to be pretty characteristic. Not all the time, but extremely common.

Might also be partly to do with the English speaking ones being the Chinese equivalent of entitled brats who went to Eton.

 

[krtek a houby]

If this person really is paid to do this stuff by the Chinese State (as Rimbaud proposed) then it looks a lot like they've just fucked it up royally with the old genocide cheering. Drinking on the job maybe. Very strange whatever it is.

Get a lot of them over here, 50 Cent Army. Language is not dissimilar, polite, condescending and with matter of fact violent threats of extermination and "crushing" dissent.

Delighted he's been banned.

 

[Streathamite]

That should be this prats last post on these boards.

Actually, it seems it was!
I reported it, and I'm sure others did.

 

[spitfire]

Yep, the madly supercilious tone seems to be pretty characteristic. Not all the time, but extremely common.

Might also be partly to do with the English speaking ones being the Chinese equivalent of entitled brats who went to Eton.

Learnt something useful tonight, thanks Rimbaud.

 

[Streathamite]

Learnt something useful tonight, thanks Rimbaud.

Yes, ditto, I had no idea about Wumao until I came upon this thread.
Cheers Rimbaud - top work!

 

[krtek a houby]

Media clampdown continues, bit by bit

Hong Kong Free Press’s editor-in-chief, Tom Grundy, said it appeared they were “targeted under the climate of the new security law and because of our impartial and fact-based coverage”.

“We are a local news outlet and our prospective editor was a journalist originally from Ireland, so this is not another tit-for-tat measure under the US-China trade dispute,” he said.

Hong Kong Free Press journalist denied visa amid fears for media freedom

 

[Streathamite]

There's a reason why China is fucking up so badly at diplomacy these days, and you've just had a first hand demonstration.

This is what you get when you cut your population off from external sources of information, educate them with skewed inaccurate nonsense, and then set them out to convert the world which they have zero understanding of.

Chinese education system emphasises how China was beaten by foreign powers because it was weak. This leads to them thinking that whenever a country opposes China, it must be because they think China is weak, so they will act more threatening to show that they are strong and so should be obeyed. This is reflected in the arrogant and callous tone of Wumao propagandists like our friend here. Unfortunately, nobody has considered China to be weak since perhaps World War 2, but Chinese history books don't really teach much of the second half of the 20th Century. They still view the world as essentially like it was in the 19th Century.

One thing I'll never get. Just who thought this site - of all sites - would be a fertile ground to sow such propagandist seed?
I mean, wtf? There could hardly be a place less worth a wumao exercise.
Do some research, comrades.

 

[maomao]

This is the 'interesting new Canadian poster' Marty1 was whining about posters ganging up on a couple of days ago lol. They were Deadstick 1944 last time, they've now shat all over this thread twice and they'll probably be back again if they're getting a quid for every eighteen posts.

 

[bimble]

Probably should go in a new thread but that was a really strange thing to encounter for the first time & I have loads more questions. Like what actually is the aim / remit of actors like that and also do countries like this one or the US do anything similar or not?

 

[krtek a houby]

Probably should go in a new thread but that was a really strange thing to encounter for the first time & I have loads more questions. Like what actually is the aim / remit of actors like that and also do countries like this one or the US do anything similar or not?

The US has, but these days online, it sometimes feels that every American is trolling (that's a huge generalisation, of course, and just from personal experience of spending too much time online!) and Israel has hasbara.

But regarding China, it seems the aim for these internet warriors is to spread Chinese state propaganda, irritate western media, go after dissidents and Uighurs abroad and attack any perceived slights against China and the CCP. There's paid and unpaid "patriots", cropping up wherever discussion of Hong Kong and China is - Australian media, African media etc. There are also many journalists and media outlets that are feted by China, in order to gain favourable coverage.

The 50 cent army (wumao) can pose as basically anyone - there's reports from a few years back, of posters pretending to be Taiwanese and trying to get Californian independence a talking point!

Pro-China trolls are doing their best to stoke tensions for Taiwan by amplifying racist claims and spreading misinformation about California leaving the US