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"Healthcare" in the US

TomUS said:
The military and vets are seen as almost god-like....deserving of special attention from the gov compared to the average people who haven't "served." This can be seen at airports where uniformed military get priority boarding along with an announcement over the PA system "Thank you for your service." Signs at La Guardia say "Support our troops." Someone said 'If we want to reduce war, we need to stop glorifying the warrior.'
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service guarantees citizenship!
 
TomUS said:
The military and vets are seen as almost god-like....deserving of special attention from the gov compared to the average people who haven't "served." This can be seen at airports where uniformed military get priority boarding along with an announcement over the PA system "Thank you for your service." Signs at La Guardia say "Support our troops." Someone said 'If we want to reduce war, we need to stop glorifying the warrior.'
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Lionising of servicemen and women is yet another big cultural difference in the US.

Think that's why many were surprised that Trump's attack on a Gold Star family in the campaign was given such a pass. :(
 
CRI said:
Lionising of servicemen and women is yet another big cultural difference in the US.
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repeated attempts are being made with some success to imitate this culture of warrior-worship. Armed Servicemans day and so on. Did corbyn bow deeply enough to the cenotaph? etc. the concept of the Glorious Dead and all that.
 
Still don't really understand why a free public health service in the US is seen as some sort of unconscionable evil, when it's private healthcare that is really the evil. :(
Mind you, the powers that be over here are swinging that way too. :mad:
 
TomUS said:
The military and vets are seen as almost god-like....deserving of special attention from the gov compared to the average people who haven't "served." This can be seen at airports where uniformed military get priority boarding along with an announcement over the PA system "Thank you for your service." Signs at La Guardia say "Support our troops." Someone said 'If we want to reduce war, we need to stop glorifying the warrior.'
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and the government opts to provide a Vets' hospital service rather than paying for their health insurance, implicit in that is the recognition thatr single payer makes sense.
 
Orang Utan said:
Still don't really understand why a free public health service in the US is seen as some sort of unconscionable evil, when it's private healthcare that is really the evil. :(
Mind you, the powers that be over here are swinging that way too. :mad:
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The Republican party has consistently opposed virtually all social programs, especially those that help people with health insurance. The American Medical Assn hired Ronald Reagan to propagandize against Medicare in the 60s.
Ronald Reagan Speaks Out Against Socialized Medicine is a 1961 LP featuring Ronald Reagan...Reagan "criticized Social Security for supplanting private savings and warned that subsidized medicine would curtail Americans' freedom"...Roger Lowenstein called the LP part of a "stealth program" conducted by the American Medical Association...Reagan says, "We are going to spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children, what it once was like in America when men were free."
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Ronald Reagan Speaks Out Against Socialized Medicine - Wikipedia
 


This is the reality of healthcare for many in America. This is someone who has insurance. They have a pre-existing condition. They had treatment for thyroid cancer, and have additional ongoing problems as a result.

The $25k figure is what they had to pay themselves, with the rest being paid by the insurer. For 2016.

I just wonder whether the fucking twats over here who go full on spiteful right wing and say the NHS is too expensive to run and why should I have to pay for your care etc could afford to pay that amount. And that's if they managed to have insurance in the first place.

Death or bankruptcy. Freedom!
 
Many people who obtain health insurance through their employers—about half of the country—could be at risk of losing protections that limit out-of-pocket costs for catastrophic illnesses, due to a little-noticed provision of the House Republican health-care bill to be considered Thursday, health-policy experts say.

The provision, part of a last-minute amendment, lets states obtain waivers from certain Affordable Care Act insurance regulations. Insurers in states that obtain the waivers could be freed from a regulation mandating that they cover 10 particular types of health services, among them maternity care, prescription drugs, mental health treatment and hospitalization.
 
It passed the house by one vote. Still has to get past the senate though.
 
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Orang Utan said:
has anyone ever had the audacity to propose doing away with health insurance altogether?
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Do you mean just expecting anyone who needs health care to just buy it as when they need it, so only people who can afford to pay get care?
 
Crispy said:
It passed the house by one vote. Still has to get past the senate though.

Sent from my F5321 using Tapatalk
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Small majority there, so it won't be as easy. If jamming switchboards can find just a couple GOP Senators that have something resembling a heart instead of a black stone in their chest, it might fail.

Having said that, Trump is personally committed to eliminating "Obamacare" (and anything vaguely linked to the 44th president) by all means necessary, so perhaps with a few minor, meaningless concessions, it will get through. People will die - lots of them.
 
Orang Utan said:
has anyone ever had the audacity to propose doing away with health insurance altogether?
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There have been small groups that have proposed it. Some groups of Amish and Mennonites pay for care out of pocket, but they pay it out of fund established and funded by members of the group--a self-insurance program. There's a major quilt auction every year that attracts collectors from all over. The proceeds go to cover medical costs.

I did hear of one doctor that lowered his prices and said he wouldn't accept insurance any more. He could justify it with lower costs in running the office. He didn't have to employ five people to do nothing but bill insurance companies.

I'm not aware of a larger effort, but there might be one somewhere.
 
Orang Utan said:
no, having a free national health service without the need for insurance. we have it. it's being run down, but it's way more efficient than the private model (or the public insurance model they have in France).
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Most Canadians have their own health insurance. Provincial health care covers most of doctor visits, hospitals trips and stays and other minor expenses. It does not cover dental, vision or prescription drugs. Most insurances will cover those things, but there is always a deductible to be paid by the patient. My favourite perk is that I get to stay in a semi-private hospital room instead of the normal 4-person rooms. If you don't have insurance and you are poor, there is government aid.

The coverage here varies from province to province. Ontario recently started to cover all medications for persons under 25. This is wonderful - low income families will be able to get the medication that their children need. So often, the medications take back seat to rent and food. This also means that all female have access to free contraception. Quebec covers all dental work for their youth.
 
spring-peeper said:
Most Canadians have their own health insurance. Provincial health care covers most of doctor visits, hospitals trips and stays and other minor expenses. It does not cover dental, vision or prescription drugs. Most insurances will cover those things, but there is always a deductible to be paid by the patient. My favourite perk is that I get to stay in a semi-private hospital room instead of the normal 4-person rooms. If you don't have insurance and you are poor, there is government aid.

The coverage here varies from province to province. Ontario recently started to cover all medications for persons under 25. This is wonderful - low income families will be able to get the medication that their children need. So often, the medications take back seat to rent and food. This also means that all female have access to free contraception. Quebec covers all dental work for their youth.
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I think that's shit and not good enough. there's no need for the middle man - get rid of health insurance comanies- they're parasitic. you could just pay for it all with fair taxation. no means testing. no perks. no special favours for anyone. no need for loads of accountants and bureaucracy. if you're sick, you get help.
 
Just read this and wondered how anyone can afford health insurance. Those are large sums of money!!!!

A 40-year-old with a severe form of cancer such as lung or brain cancer could be liable for a $71,880 (£56,000) surcharge, while those with metastatic cancer could see a rise of $140,510, according to calculations by liberal think tank Center for American Progress.

People with colorectal, kidney and other cancers, and those with breast cancer under 50, may have to pay a surcharge of $28,230 (£22,000), and a middle-aged person with autism could have to pay $5,420 (£4,200) for coverage.

And a completed pregnancy, with no or minor complications, would result in a premium hike of $17,060 (£13,200) – a 425% increase.
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Pregnancy to cost 425% more under Trump's health plan compared to Obamacare

Where do people get the money to be able to afford to get sick?
 
Orang Utan said:
no, having a free national health service without the need for insurance. we have it. it's being run down, but it's way more efficient than the private model (or the public insurance model they have in France).
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I've heard it said that if the NHS hadn't been established exactly when it was, it would never have been created, at least not in the "free at the point of delivery" form. I don't think there was ever a "critical mass" moment like that in the US, and also, the "survival of the fittest" part of the history and culture creates a bit of a mental barrier to the idea of universal health care for some. As Tom says, insurance firms and other big companies that profit from health care, will use their wealth and connections to make sure they are never legislated out of existence. Getting the quite flawed but at least better than what came before ACA through was a hard slog. I doubt there will be anything even close to that appearing again in the US in my lifetime.
 
Fun fact: the number of Americans with pre-existing conditions is more than the entire population of the UK. (27% of under-65s according to the Guardian, plus the ones who are over 65 where I guess that goes way up.)
 
weltweit said:
Has anyone got a link to what Trump's new policy is?
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It was cobbled together so quickly, I don't think anyone actually knows exactly what's in it. Here's a blurb about that:

The Republican healthcare plan also includes an attempt to defund women’s health organization Planned Parenthood, as well as drastic cuts to Medicaid, totaling $370bn over a decade. A broader portrait of the bill’s potential consequences was unclear, because Republicans rushed a vote before the independent Congressional Budget Office (CBO) could provide an analysis. The CBO had projected that under the original version of the Republican plan, as many as 24 million Americans would lose their health insurance.
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Seeing lots of people trying to deconstruct what's in it on social media, and lots of desperate people counting the cost of what it will mean for them and their families :(

Someone found this "interesting" tidbit - predicted savings on Social Security payments, because basically, in the new scheme, a lot more people will die before they can claim.

upload_2017-5-4_23-6-0.png
 
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