Griffin and BNP strategy

[Fedayn]

Oh yeah, they've got that thing on the 18th haven't they. They're going to drown us all in this apolitical anti-fascism aren't they?

Yup, he really thinks that there's be discussion and debate and the ability to chamnge UAF's tactics.

Oh and in his eyes not being involved weith UAF is effectively asrguing for beating up individual fascists cos thet's the only other route possible.

 

[butchersapron]

I've already had the you're like the KPD line thrown at me locally.

 

[Fedayn]

I've already had the you're like the KPD line thrown at me locally.

Yopu should have replied KAPD actually, if you don't mind.

It's then utter inability to see the error, until their own CC tell them the error and then they not only see it but anticipated it.

 

[Rod Sleeves]

I've already had the you're like the KPD line thrown at me locally.

LOL

Are they still using that one?

 

[Nigel]

With recent demostrations against Islamic 'Extremists'/Support Ours Boys by UBA and others and far right possibly hanging around the edges, according to this forum NF making some sort of alignment, finding common ground with BNP and the relative electoral success; building support in some communities, there maybe confidence in BNP to be openly involved in street activity even if it is just demos.

Some sort of change in tactics could be necessary, even finding common ground with UAF?

 

[ViolentPanda]

LOL

Are they still using that one?

The old'uns are the best!

 

[Nigel]

Would go along to UAF conference, but just found out Tollpuddle is on same weekend. Not very good timing

Tolpuddle Martyr’s Festival

Tolpuddle Nr Dorchester, Dorset

Fr1 17th – Sun 19th July 2009

 

[treelover]

Thanks to Nick Parker for drawing my attention to the anti-BNP protest that he organised in Lincoln last Saturday.

However, It seems from the reports in the Lincolnshire Echo that this was a mixed blessing.

Although undoubtedly well meaning, there is a real danger of the anti-fascist campaign looking like an unrepresentative minority of lefties, squaring off to an equally unrepresentative minority of racists. When the local paper reports “shocked and bemused onlookers”, then it seems to me that we have failed to engage sufficiently with the broadly anti-fascist sentiments of the political mainstream.

Of course I may be wrong, and the local paper may be misreporting it; and the local anti-BNP campaign may have gained a boost from this; but I do think these tactics need to be appraised and debated.

http://www.socialistunity.com/


Stand off between the Social Workers and the BNP in Lincoln:, very middle class chanting of slogans by the S/W vs shouts of 'Swoppie , Swoppie, Swoppie, out out out', by the BNP, couldn't make it up

 

[treelover]

@Nigel, why should anyone take advice from someone who endorses benefit cuts, etc, which will only increase support for extremists...

 

[treelover]

Btw, the other Fascists, Hizbut Tahir(sic?) have a meeting soon on the Commercial Road, will UAF be picketing that?

 

[audiotech]

trollus incipentis

 

[audiotech]

http://www.socialistunity.com/


Stand off between the Social Workers and the BNP in Lincoln:, very middle class chanting of slogans by the S/W vs shouts of 'Swoppie , Swoppie, Swoppie, out out out', by the BNP, couldn't make it up

But you did make it up.

It appears that this march and rally was in fact organised by the PCS, NUT and Lincoln & District trades’ council, with Socialist Party involvement.

 

[Nigel]

@Nigel, why should anyone take advice from someone who endorses benefit cuts, etc, which will only increase support for extremists...

Thats a bit misleading
Anyway cannot be bothered and it is not a subject for this thread!

 

[JimPage]

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/4493415.BNP_search_for_Burnley_base__progressing_/

looks like Burnley and Carlisle will be the locations of their NW regional offices

 

[butchersapron]

Vote Tory in Nuneaton is the UAFs new one.

*winks*

 

[Nigel]

Vote Tory in Nuneaton is the UAFs new one.

*winks*

Have you got a source for that?

 

[butchersapron]

A source for them campaigning in nuneaton on a vote against the BNP platform whicbh in that ward means a tory vote?
http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=4371

Good to see revolutionary communists finally admitting that a tory vote is fine, is welcome.

 

[Nigel]

A source for them campaigning in nuneaton on a vote against the BNP platform whicbh in that ward means a tory vote?
http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=4371

Good to see revolutionary communists finally admitting that a tory vote is fine, is welcome.

Thanx

Hardly got to the situation in France yet: Thief or Nazi!

 

[TremulousTetra]

Yup, he really thinks that there's be discussion and debate and the ability to chamnge UAF's tactics.

Oh and in his eyes not being involved weith UAF is effectively asrguing for beating up individual fascists cos thet's the only other route possible.

why didn't you try to convince him of anyone else there an here, of your better route. feel free

 

[durruti02]

I've already had the you're like the KPD line thrown at me locally.

it's that leather jacket you wear!

 

[durruti02]

Some sort of change in tactics could be necessary, even finding common ground with UAF?

.. no it is finally finding common ground with the vast majority of people in this country who are basically sound ..

BUT they are angered by and scared of the idea of muslim take over,

they are angered that people who have found sanctuary and have made their homes in this country ( which as w/c people they legitimately regard as their own .. as they BUILT it .. m/c people please note this) are prepared to let off bombs to kill randomly on tubes and buses

they are angered that after centuries of destroying the power of relegion in this country we have a large and determined group who publically state that this country will become sharia

( and note this IDIOCY from a govt minister .. do you think this has not done the rounds?? )

and people who are angry that 100 years after the sufferagetes we see women having to cover their faces in public

people legitimately are entitled to be concerned

but do i see a general anti muslim thing? sadly yes increasingly but still very very little considering the bombings and the idiots like hamza and choudry ..

this is an incredibly dangerous moment in history for the left and all of us .. yes we have to confront racism and fascism ( but from all corners) but equally IF we are seen to be siding with muslim fundamentalism against white youth that could have disasterous consequences for all of us

 

[Nigel]

So its nothing to do with racist hysteria by mass popular whipped up by the media.

Or scapegoating 'Muslim' immigrants for the disasterous policies both home and abroad by this and previous governments in their imperialist quest for oil and other fossil fuels?

No similarity to the hate mongering of Jewish people during the 1930's and post war fear of Zionist plots.

At the end of the day people with progressive ideas need to organise to deal with social injustice, bigotry etc.

The main with the UAF is the domination of the SWP, the eccentric behaviour of various leftist groups, democracy and accountability and other such issues.
(maybe Searchlight as well, but that is another matter)

If there is a new layer of people are becoming involved in politics, especially with concerned 'English Patriots' taking to the streets and the moderate success of the BNP recentely, then at least finding common ground with UAF will become necessary.

While we are at it could discuss what ANTIFA's tactics may be in the not too distant future. Breakin away from, on the outside too many may come across as being stuck in a subcultural, possibly dated ghetto.

If 'Militant' anti fascism in Britain is to become a fighting force to be recond with tactics and policies along some sort of United Front may be a better way forward?(No the Orthodox Trot Version Necessarily)

 

[frogwoman]

ummm, durruti ... the only people I know who are woried by the idea of a muslim takeover are swivel eyed loons (mostly american) tbf. People don't like these idiots shouting slogans and hysteria is being whipped up in the media but I think a lot of your post is exaggerated mate ...

 

[Nigel]

Doesn't mean that a minority organising demos agianst 'Islamic Fundamentalism' couldn't be potentially dangerous. And your real McOy Fash sniffing around.

Yoor average Joe Bloggs in the street may not go along with this, but, in the current climate consider that they have a point.,

 

[The39thStep]

I think Durutti articulates the successful message that the BNP have put across not just to those who vote for them but those who won't votes for them but think there is a kernel of truth in what they say.

Choudry and the BNP are mirror images of politics based on appealing to faith and race.

Yes the press is full off racial hysteria but tell me when it hasn't been. Actually most peoples perceptions whilst being influenced by national media are more likely to be firmed up by their local experience i.e. contact with neighbours, work colleagues, conversation in pubs, community groups. local shopping centres, contact with public authorities etc And some of those perceptions ,however much we might dislike it, are based on their own experiences. Hence perceptions that 'immigrants get all the housing' or 'local girls deliberately get pregnant ' might attract national media headlines but are more likely to be confirmed by local people experience of applying for social housing and the area in which they live. Combine that with the disastrous effects of multiculturalism from above by local council and the government ( anyone ever seen the film Routes to Racism btw which explores this) , New labour and the liberal lefts support of this 'anti racism' which in many cases dismisses people anxieties and grievances and has a knack of siding with the 'oppressed' to the point of promoting double standards and its easy to see why we are in the state we are in.

Nigel’s point about "If 'Militant' anti fascism in Britain is to become a fighting force to be recond with tactics and policies along some sort of United Front may be a better way forward?(No the Orthodox Trot Version Necessarily) " in my view misses the point entirely . 'militant anti fascism isn't a principle its a tactic and that tactic has been redundant for some time. Isn't it time that 'anti fascists' actually said what they were in favour of rather than what they were against ? or more to the point actually ask the local working class what they are in favour of and come up with ways of meeting those issues through a pro working class standpoint?

 

[Nigel]

Is their any evidence that immigrants/asylum seekers are put to to top of housing lists, given preferential treatment. I guess not.

Many people I have talked to recentely rightly point out that immigrant labour is considered preferable to indignous and people have lost their jobs only to find that immigrants have taken their place! Although it is obviously the Bosses and employers that are at fault, its very difficult to argue this with people being put out of work in this way.

In my opinion Multiculturalism(based on Canadian model) has failed in short term and has become outdated and outmoded. However during periods when racism, sexism, homophobia was more prevelent in British society, although not perfect by any stretch of the imagination and you are right in that other models of social policy would have been much better, played a positive role in fighting discrimination, attacking bigotry and playing a role of giving people from these groups a higher status within society. Throwing the baby out with the bath water is not the answer. I still think that there should be positive discimination for people with disabilities because of the level of prejudice that exists in society.

As far as housing etc is concerned, I think you are right. Based upon how dysfunctional you are and how many problems you have is not the reason why you should have priority for housing, the introduction of sons and daughters policy by brown is possibly a positive move to hold communities together. As Clare Kent(IWCA) pointed out in one of her Newsletters for Churchill Ward Oxford; Why should a young male with anti social leanings selling drugs etc. be given priority over elderly people, most of whom have been decent citizens and worked all their lives.

However what are you going to do with dysfunctional single parents who have childern on the basis of gaining housing and other benefits, throw them in the workhouse?
What do you do with the 5%ers? At the end of the day the resources in this society exist for everyone to have a decent standard of living, it is the fact of the unjust distribution of wealth in this society, capitlaism and the superstructure that exists around it that creates the lack of facilities and mess we are in.

 

[The39thStep]

Anyone read the June edition of Freedom btw . Quite an interesting read : front page about care of our old folk and the 'self first culture of the capitalist system introduced by Tories and run by Labour', page 2 Troops out of Afghanistan, page 3 criticising other parties attendance at council meetings and battling to save Burnley schools, page 4 Britain is a Christian country page, page 6 Labour Mp says Britain will be an Islamic state in 30 years, and articles criticising Tesco’s profits . page 7 nationalise the banks and help small business and an article on donated British organs being sold to foreigners due to the EU,two pages on Euro lections, page 10 article on Women against Pit Closures , page 11 activity from BNP councillors , defections to BNP, and the rest on BNP activity including the attempted banning of a St Georges Day parade by Sandwell Council.

Actually an interesting read , well put together with a good balance of information, propaganda and adverts for their party and products. definitely give the impression that they are underdogs going somewhere with the good fight I'm afraid.

 

[Nigel]

Anyone read the June edition of Freedom btw . Quite an interesting read : front page about care of our old folk and the 'self first culture of the capitalist system introduced by Tories and run by Labour', page 2 Troops out of Afghanistan, page 3 criticising other parties attendance at council meetings and battling to save Burnley schools, page 4 Britain is a Christian country page, page 6 Labour Mp says Britain will be an Islamic state in 30 years, and articles criticising Tesco’s profits . page 7 nationalise the banks and help small business and an article on donated British organs being sold to foreigners due to the EU,two pages on Euro lections, page 10 article on Women against Pit Closures , page 11 activity from BNP councillors , defections to BNP, and the rest on BNP activity including the attempted banning of a St Georges Day parade by Sandwell Council.

Actually an interesting read , well put together with a good balance of information, propaganda and adverts for their party and products. definitely give the impression that they are underdogs going somewhere with the good fight I'm afraid.

Its a younger crew running Freedom these days?
Seemed to be more turned of to contemporary working class issues and quite active from what I gather.

 

[butchersapron]

Not that Freedom, the BNP Freedom. It's their paper.

 

[Nigel]

Not that Freedom, the BNP Freedom. It's their paper.

What A Mistake To Make