Griffin and BNP strategy

[Stoat Boy]

This is exactly the point though - its pitched outside the trad right like you. It's not aimed at you. You're not supposed to like it.

I feel we are going around in circles here because as I see it the sort of people it would appeal to in the UK are already supporting the BNP.

If our coast line was having boat loads of raggedy Africans or Albanians turning up on it every day and there was a public perception that it was problamatic then his comments might make sense in terms of persuading people who had been dithering about pitching in with the BNP but I see no real audience of potential voters that his comments appeal to with a real downside of perhaps scaring off people.

I am just trying to see if there might be a wider context in terms of his making a pitch to far right parties in countrys such as Italy and Spain where such views probably would have a wider audience.

 

[tbaldwin]

disagree .. it's a vote winner .. and he said they could have life rafts .. sorry i can hear pubs and golf clubs full of blokes going 'too fucking right sink them '

I think part of the BNPs appeal is about things just not being fair. And that white people have been discriminated against etc.....some people who would vote for them on that basis would not want to be associated with sinking boats and would be put off by it. yeah maybe some twats would go good on him etc etfc but so what....would they really be more likely to vote BNP as a result? Swings and roundabouts but id say its probably an own goal.

 

[audiotech]

I do think Griffin is being a bit too forward in openly racialisng a lot of his stuff recently - he may well be getting too complacent. But he's doing that on the back of results.

Thanks, that makes more sense.

 

[butchersapron]

I prefer the more eloquent of your posts, explaining your thoughts in more depth.

No need sometimes.

 

[butchersapron]

I think part of the BNPs appeal is about things just not being fair. And that white people have been discriminated against etc.....some people who would vote for them on that basis would not want to be associated with sinking boats and would be put off by it. yeah maybe some twats would go good on him etc etfc but so what....would they really be more likely to vote BNP as a result? Swings and roundabouts but id say its probably an own goal.

It's probably irrelevent in all honesty.

 

[durruti02]

I think part of the BNPs appeal is about things just not being fair. And that white people have been discriminated against etc.....some people who would vote for them on that basis would not want to be associated with sinking boats and would be put off by it. yeah maybe some twats would go good on him etc etfc but so what....would they really be more likely to vote BNP as a result? Swings and roundabouts but id say its probably an own goal.

yes fair point .. many of those might not bother to vote

 

[durruti02]

I do think Griffin is being a bit too forward in openly racialisng a lot of his stuff recently - he may well be getting too complacent. But he's doing that on the back of results.

yes agree .. hopefully he's gettting carried away .. while there are plenty of people who do not give a fuck about migrants and refugees etc and don't like the muslim thing they no longer see themselves as racists ...

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Health warning, link contains nuts:



Nobody wants to be their friends - the sad little fucks.

edit - the remark that vile Hungarian fash bitch said was "I would be glad if the so-called proud Hungarian Jews would go back to playing with their tiny little circumcised tail rather than vilifying me."

 

[TremulousTetra]

They might have had 12 MEPs. You're right.

so you've fuck all then.

 

[TremulousTetra]

Your anti-fascist majority you mean? The worthless pro-status quo anti-fascist majority we have right now that produces fascism? Defend sarkozy, defend brown defend our system!

well at least you're not attacking strawman arguments now, even though you are still talking bollocks.

 

[sonny61]

Griffin's interview on the Andrew Marr show.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2a6S10cnpE (broken link)

 

[Fedayn]

well at least you're not attacking strawman arguments now, even though you are still talking bollocks.

How is he? FFS, using the Tories, Lib Dems and Labour as the exemplar of anti-BNP votes is not in any way changing the status quo, merely re-inforcing it under the management of acceptable political leaderships.

 

[The39thStep]

How is he? FFS, using the Tories, Lib Dems and Labour as the exemplar of anti-BNP votes is not in any way changing the status quo, merely re-inforcing it under the management of acceptable political leaderships.

totally agree and fails to answer the real question as to apart from being anti what is anti fascism actually in favour of that it can take as a political altternative to working class communities.

 

[butchersapron]

I've come to the conclusion that people like RMP3 are just never going to understand it no matter what happens. The road of apolitical anti-fascism is the only one they can even see.

 

[tbaldwin]

What do you mean by apolitical anti fascism butchers?

 

[butchersapron]

What do you mean by apolitical anti fascism butchers?

The sort of anti-fascism that's content is just anti-fascism, that's so empty of political content it can safely link hands with those creating the conditions that the BNP can flourish in, in the name of defending the system. The sort of anti-fascism that allows (ahem) revolutionary communists who purpotldy want to destroy bougeois society to argue on newsnight and C4 news that the BNP need to be opposed because "they're not a legitimate political party' and they want to destroy the system - which they don't actually, but the idiocy of a revolutionary communist denouncing for them supposdly having that desire is the point. The sort of anti-fascsim that calls for a vote for the mainstream parties, the sort of anti-fascism that pretneds that it isn't, the sort of anti-fascims that has David Cameron as a supporter.

 

[tbaldwin]

The sort of anti-fascism that's content is just anti-fascism, that's so empty of political content it can safely link hands with those creating the conditions that the BNP can flourish in, in the name of defending the system. The sort of anti-fascism that allows (ahem) revolutionary communists who purpotldy want to destroy bougeois society to argue on newsnight and C4 news that the BNP need to be opposed because "they're not a legitimate political party' and they want to destroy the system - which they don't actually, but the idiocy of a revolutionary communist denouncing for them supposdly having that desire is the point. The sort of anti-fascsim that calls for a vote for the mainstream parties, the sort of anti-fascism that pretneds that it isn't, the sort of anti-fascims that has David Cameron as a supporter.

Whats apolitical about that?

 

[butchersapron]

It doesn't have any politics beyond a single issue -and what politics there are are practically apolitical - they're so broad they're not really politics, they're unpolitical. What's your politics? - oh i'm for the good things and against the bad. You can call that approach political if you like though, the criticisms of it are still there.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Whats apolitical about that?

It's empty of any political analysis, strategy or demand apart from don't vote BNP. Worse still it has to be empty, because those promoting it have only two things in common; one is anti-BNP rhetoric, the other is organisational self interest. Obviously such a self seeking agenda isn't as appealing as railing against Griffin and co., so the former becomes the only thing they can agree to speak about.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[frogwoman]

The sort of anti-fascism that's content is just anti-fascism, that's so empty of political content it can safely link hands with those creating the conditions that the BNP can flourish in, in the name of defending the system. The sort of anti-fascism that allows (ahem) revolutionary communists who purpotldy want to destroy bougeois society to argue on newsnight and C4 news that the BNP need to be opposed because "they're not a legitimate political party' and they want to destroy the system - which they don't actually, but the idiocy of a revolutionary communist denouncing for them supposdly having that desire is the point. The sort of anti-fascsim that calls for a vote for the mainstream parties, the sort of anti-fascism that pretneds that it isn't, the sort of anti-fascims that has David Cameron as a supporter.

In other words the sort of "anti-fascism" that isn't anti-fascism at all

 

[TremulousTetra]

I've come to the conclusion that people like RMP3 are just never going to understand it no matter what happens. The road of apolitical anti-fascism is the only one they can even see.

fuuuuuuuck ooooofff! When, EVER, have you tried to explain anything about your politics to me?

What's more, I'm sure you are aware of the genuine political difference we have, you just to fucking sectarian to acknowledge it, and prefer to attack strawmen for 64 pages.

 

[Joe Reilly]

In other words the sort of "anti-fascism" that isn't anti-fascism at all[/QU OTE]


No it's a one size fits all anti-extremism. Near identical tactics to those regularly employed against the BNP were also routinely used against the IWCA too. Concordats by the mainstream parties, media blockades, outrageous smear campaigns (one rumour spread by Labour was that an IWCA councillor was a convicted drugs dealer and the anti-drugs campaign he organised was designed to rid himself of the competition!), police intimidation, physical threats and provocations are all part of the same dance.

 

[butchersapron]

Who are The Centre for Social Cohesion - they've just released a 75 page report The BNP and the Online Fascist Network. First quick skim suggests it's yet another 'expose them for being naughty' document - also takes the top-down official multi-culturalism approach whilst taking recent pronouncements by poeple like Commander John Sawer at face value (edit: actually it straight up repeats un-supported claims.) Possibly some useful info in there. Will look in more detail later.

Edit: it's utterly pathetic - it's bascially a load of shocking comments from youtube vids and the like. Mc5'll be quoting it for months.

The Burnley BNP branch's official YouTube channel appears relatively innocuous. However, the following comment from a user called 'BowieTip' has been left undeleted for two years: King Edward the 1st signed a decree expelling Jews from England on July 18th in 1290. The Edict of Expulsion was never repealed hence Jews in modern England should be considered illegal aliens.

 

[audiotech]

Nothing new in that report.

It confirms that the BNP has links to the international neo-Nazi racist movement and that racists, antisemites, neo-Nazis and assorted loonspuds continue to gravitate towards the BNP.

The report also highlights that the BNP has managed to attract 'considerable support from disaffected white Britons', which it goes onto state, 'many of whom are undoubtedly unaware of the extent of the party‟s underlying extremism'.

Edit: And no I will not be quoting any of that dross in the coming months.

 

[ViolentPanda]

How is he? FFS, using the Tories, Lib Dems and Labour as the exemplar of anti-BNP votes is not in any way changing the status quo, merely re-inforcing it under the management of acceptable political leaderships.

Not only does it not change the status quo but in the case of two of those parties, they have a history of "shifting to the right" when it becomes politically advantageous. What's to prevent that happening again, with either or both of them "stealing the BNP's clothes" as it were?

 

[butchersapron]

Edit: And no I will not be quoting any of that dross in the coming months.

Why not - it's doing exactly what you're attempting to do and what searchlight and UAF are trying to do on a larger scale -expose the true nature of the BNP and their links with extreme racists? I'd have thought it'd be right up your street. RMP3 will love it if no one else does.

 

[butchersapron]

Here's a great example of that apolitical anti-fascism me and Louis were talking about above. Note that being against 'free-trade capitalists' was snuck in as being as bad as racism/the BNP.

 

[butchersapron]

Missed this last week - UAF's analysis (their claim, not mine) of the euro results and where next. I bet i can guess. Skimming it, this jumsped out at me

The overall shape of the results vindicates Unite Against Fascism’s strategy for the election campaign.

editL it gets even better

Fascist parties such as the BNP stand in elections in order to gain a “respectable” cover for their street activity. So there are serious concerns that the election of two BNP Euro MPs will usher in a period where the party’s thugs are set loose to intimidate ethnic minorities and whip up race hatred.

 

[Fedayn]

Missed this last week - UAF's analysis (their claim, not mine) of the euro results and where next. I bet i can guess. Skimming it, this jumsped out at me

They do, I was pottering along Whitehall yesterday and, luckily, spotted a small demo by Downing Street. Wanders across and recognise a rather 'atmospheric' SWPer in my union. He clocked me and he starts to tell me to come to UAF conference next week to discuss the BNP etc etc. He then proceeded to tell me how we needed to join UAF to be bigger and more effective than we have been, and that the Eruos were not that goosd for the BNP..... And anyone not invovled is somne hig intellectual pontificating wehilst others get involved....

He then couldn't believe I didn't want to buy a socialist worker.

 

[butchersapron]

Oh yeah, they've got that thing on the 18th haven't they. They're going to drown us all in this apolitical anti-fascism aren't they?