Griffin and BNP strategy

[frogwoman]

ill try and fidn more later x dont really have time for this now tbh

 

[butchersapron]

Won't it put more people off, incuding the softer elements already in the orbit of BNP land?

Yeah, it will, that 's why exposing it and other examples have done just that over the last decade. It's a winning strategy. And i, for one, am glad to see you plugging away at it.

 

[audiotech]

Yeah, it will, that 's why exposing it and other examples have done just that over the last decade. It's a winning strategy. And i, for one, am glad to see you plugging away at it.

So you think the latest from Griffin won't put people off and it's designed to gather the BNP more support?

 

[Stoat Boy]

Yeah, it will, that 's why exposing it and other examples have done just that over the last decade. It's a winning strategy. And i, for one, am glad to see you plugging away at it.

But the thing is that a policy of sinking ships is OTT. And cannot play well with a lot of people who have switched to the BNP.

And its hardly 'exposing' it. Griffin seemed more than happy to give the interview and must have known that it would sound terrible to a domestic audience. Just makes no sense.

 

[butchersapron]

So you think the latest from Griffin won't put people off and it's designed to gather the BNP more support?

That's what i just argued.

 

[Rod Sleeves]

ill try and fidn more later x dont really have time for this now tbh

Fair enough I think that's plenty to back up your argument.

 

[butchersapron]

But the thing is that a policy of sinking ships is OTT. And cannot play well with a lot of people who have switched to the BNP.

And its hardly 'exposing' it. Griffin seemed more than happy to give the interview and must have known that it would sound terrible to a domestic audience. Just makes no sense.

Who gives a fuck if it's OTT? Sinking ships is exactly the rhetorical crap that BNP voters love. It won't sit well with tories like you and liberals like MC5. It's not designed to. The practicalities of sinking boat is neither here nor there.

It won't make sense if you're Cameron to say thse things, but if your appeal is that you're not Cameron...then it does. It makes perfect sense.

 

[Stoat Boy]

Who gives a fuck if it's OTT? Sinking ships is exactly the rhetorical crap that BNP voters love. It won't sit well with tories like you and liberals like MC5. It's not designed to. The practicalities of sinking boat is neither here nor there.

It won't make sense if you're Cameron to say thse things, but if your appeal is that you're not Cameron...then it does. It makes perfect sense.

But if you think sinking ships full of illegal immigrants is smashing chances are you are voting BNP already.

I guess you could argue that it might attract a few loons who thought the BNP had gone a bit gay but I would argue that its more likely to drive away more supporters.

 

[audiotech]

That's what i just argued.

OK, but surely this will only attract those the BNP wants to distance themselves from and alienate those he needs to attract to move forward?

 

[audiotech]

Who gives a fuck if it's OTT? Sinking ships is exactly the rhetorical crap that BNP voters love. It won't sit well with tories like you and liberals like MC5. It's not designed to. The practicalities of sinking boat is neither here nor there.

It won't make sense if you're Cameron to say thse things, but if your appeal is that you're not Cameron...then it does. It makes perfect sense.

Please, I'm no liberal, so stop the wind-up crap eh?

 

[butchersapron]

But if you think sinking ships full of illegal immigrants is smashing chances are you are voting BNP already.

I guess you could argue that it might attract a few loons who thought the BNP had gone a bit gay but I would argue that its more likely to drive away more supporters.

You probably are yes (you don't think they've reached the limit of who they can appeal to do you?) - and this would reinforce hat and the idea that BNP one elected didn't bottle out of arguing their politics.

 

[butchersapron]

OK, but surely this will only attract those the BNP wants to distance themselves from and alienate those he needs to attract to move forward?

You've just spent the last week arguing that there''s no difference between the two groups - that they're joined at the hip. Get some consistency if you want to taken seriously.

It's simple - he says something outrageous, liberals like you spread it around - the fact that it's liberals like you is actually very important. Those who are ready to hear that rhetorical crap get to. They've got another little thing in their outlook that says here's someone thinking like them. The identification with the BNP is hammered home.

 

[Pickman's model]

they should be on the bnp payroll

 

[Stoat Boy]

You probably are yes (you don't think they've reached the limit of who they can appeal to do you?) - and this would reinforce hat and the idea that BNP one elected didn't bottle out of arguing their politics.

In terms of reaching the limit of who they might appeal to then no, you are right but this notion of sinking boat loads of illegal immigrants is refering specifically to something that is an Italian or Spanish problem. Its just not going to play well to a British audience who might be on the cusp of switching to the BNP. I dont think anybody would watch that and then decide to give the BNP their support.

I usually agree with your views on why the tactics against the BNP have been wrong but on this one I cannot help but think that this interview with Griffin can not have done the BNP domestically any good at all and am just trying to work out the logic of it.

 

[TremulousTetra]

What is? Mobilise those that you don't need to mobilise? Get in amongst those who are on your side already? Yeah, i think you're right. It is.

yup! You get it at last.

 

[frogwoman]

You've just spent the last week arguing that there''s no difference between the two groups - that they're joined at the hip. Get some consistency if you want to taken seriously.

It's simple - he says something outrageous liberals like you spread it around - the fact that it's liberals like you is actually very important - those who are ready to hear that rhetorical crap get to. They'e got another little thing in their outlook that says here's someone thinking like them. The identification with the BNP is hammered home.

Yep and the people who spread it around are going to be the ones resented for it, not the BNP themselves

 

[TremulousTetra]

Yeah, it will, that 's why exposing it and other examples have done just that over the last decade. It's a winning strategy. And i, for one, am glad to see you plugging away at it.

prove to me they wouldn't have more support, if this had not been done.

 

[butchersapron]

yup! You get it at last.

Your anti-fascist majority you mean? The worthless pro-status quo anti-fascist majority we have right now that produces fascism? Defend sarkozy, defend brown defend our system!

 

[butchersapron]

prove to me they wouldn't have more support, if this had not been done.

They might have had 12 MEPs. You're right.

 

[Stoat Boy]

Yep and the people who spread it around are going to be the ones resented for it, not the BNP themselves

I disagree. This idea of sinking boats has not been filmed by an undercover documentary team or had Search Light parading it as thier latest front cover.

Griffin gave an interview and deliberately bought the subject up. It was blatent and for anybody to listen to.

And I dont see how it plays in with the BNP trying to present themselves as reasonable alternative. Zero logic in it.

Perhaps its because I know of people who have considered voting BNP and its just not the sort of thing that would go down well with them because they tend to think of themselves as patriots, not murderers.

 

[frogwoman]

fair do's. i didn't hear the interview so cant really comment tbh

 

[Rod Sleeves]

In terms of reaching the limit of who they might appeal to then no, you are right but this notion of sinking boat loads of illegal immigrants is refering specifically to something that is an Italian or Spanish problem. Its just not going to play well to a British audience who might be on the cusp of switching to the BNP. I dont think anybody would watch that and then decide to give the BNP their support.

I usually agree with your views on why the tactics against the BNP have been wrong but on this one I cannot help but think that this interview with Griffin can not have done the BNP domestically any good at all and am just trying to work out the logic of it.

Plenty of people out there make sick (half serious) jokes about machine gunning all the africans or whatever, most currently probably don't bother voting.

 

[butchersapron]

In terms of reaching the limit of who they might appeal to then no, you are right but this notion of sinking boat loads of illegal immigrants is refering specifically to something that is an Italian or Spanish problem. Its just not going to play well to a British audience who might be on the cusp of switching to the BNP. I dont think anybody would watch that and then decide to give the BNP their support.

I usually agree with your views on why the tactics against the BNP have been wrong but on this one I cannot help but think that this interview with Griffin can not have done the BNP domestically any good at all and am just trying to work out the logic of it.

This is exactly the point though - its pitched outside the trad right like you. It's not aimed at you. You're not supposed to like it.

 

[tbaldwin]

prove to me they wouldn't have more support, if this had not been done.

That is the question for me too.
I think the ANL UAF ARA AFA etc etc made many mistakes but calling the BNP nazis was not a mistake. Some of the propaganda was a waste of time and counter productive. But now what is that will stop the BNP gaining more members and voters? I think the BNP are their own worst enemies luckily...

 

[audiotech]

You've just spent the last week arguing that there''s no difference between the two groups - that they're joined at the hip. Get some consistency if you want to taken seriously.

It's simple - he says something outrageous liberals like you spread it around - the fact that it's liberals like you is actually very important - those who are ready to hear that rhetorical crap get to. They'e got another little thing in their outlook that says here's someone thinking like them. The identification with the BNP is hammered home.

I said there was a connection between the two groups and Barnes recently has tried to develop it. Although I've heard that Barnes has recently been paid off for allegedly refusing to handle an "acquired" UKIP membership list to assist in the garnering of money and votes? How true this is is anyones guess?

Me posting up on here Griffin's latest is not really spreading it around though, but other bigger fish are doing just that and not just 'liberals' either.

 

[durruti02]

But the thing is that a policy of sinking ships is OTT. And cannot play well with a lot of people who have switched to the BNP.

disagree .. it's a vote winner .. and he said they could have life rafts .. sorry i can hear pubs and golf clubs full of blokes going 'too fucking right sink them '

 

[tbaldwin]

I disagree. This idea of sinking boats has not been filmed by an undercover documentary team or had Search Light parading it as thier latest front cover.

Griffin gave an interview and deliberately bought the subject up. It was blatent and for anybody to listen to.

And I dont see how it plays in with the BNP trying to present themselves as reasonable alternative. Zero logic in it.

Perhaps its because I know of people who have considered voting BNP and its just not the sort of thing that would go down well with them because they tend to think of themselves as patriots, not murderers.

Have to agree its a strange move by Griffin. Makes you wonder what hes up too? Who is he hoping to impress? Who is he trying to put off? WHY?

 

[butchersapron]

The jews?

 

[audiotech]

The jews?

I prefer the more eloquent of your posts, explaining your thoughts in more depth.

 

[butchersapron]

I do think Griffin is being a bit too forward in openly racialisng a lot of his stuff recently - he may well be getting too complacent. But he's doing that on the back of results.