Griffin and BNP strategy

[Random]

Not that Freedom, the BNP Freedom. It's their paper.

I also assumed he meant the anarcho version until you posted that

 

[The39thStep]

it looked a damn sight more interesting than 'Stalins nemesis The Exile and Murder of Leon Trotsky' on the e version of the Socialist and Socialist Workers 'Kenya's Mau Mau war: veterans demand justice from Britain' headlines on their site.

 

[Nigel]

I also assumed he meant the anarcho version until you posted that

Thanx for owning up and not making look like a complete idiot.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

it looked a damn sight more interesting than 'Stalins nemesis The Exile and Murder of Leon Trotsky' on the e version of the Socialist and Socialist Workers 'Kenya's Mau Mau war: veterans demand justice from Britain' headlines on their site.

Why do you think Stasserite propaganda is more interesting than reporting on Kenyan war veterans campiagning for justice

 

[durruti02]

ummm, durruti ... the only people I know who are woried by the idea of a muslim takeover are swivel eyed loons (mostly american) tbf. People don't like these idiots shouting slogans and hysteria is being whipped up in the media but I think a lot of your post is exaggerated mate ...

hi mate .. no i don't think my post IS exaggerated

.. yes of course the THREAT is totally exaggerated .. there is not a hope in hell that Islam will get anywhere outside of Pakistani/Indian origin communuties

.. but the anger after the London bombings, the Luton demo, all the AL Hamza and Choudry stuff, Burqa wearing women with placards calling for people to be beheaded .. these have made their mark .. and i know several people non activists older people who are angry about it .. the phrase that normally comes out is 'if they donlt like it here why don't they fuck off back to Pakistan/Afghanisatn/Saudi etc "

this is the thing about nationalism ( and family actually if you think about it ) .. that it is OK for those on the inside to criticise etc but NO ONE likes it when people from the outside start to have a go .. the immediate reaction is ALWAYS going to be 'who the fuck are YOU'

So people may have loads of criticisms of how this country has been run for decades maybe .. but IF you then have a group who you can not in any way relate too start bombing start demanding that the country change religion etc etc people are going to react ..

 

[durruti02]

I think Durutti articulates the successful message that the BNP have put across not just to those who vote for them but those who won't votes for them but think there is a kernel of truth in what they say.

Choudry and the BNP are mirror images of politics based on appealing to faith and race.

Yes the press is full off racial hysteria but tell me when it hasn't been. Actually most peoples perceptions whilst being influenced by national media are more likely to be firmed up by their local experience i.e. contact with neighbours, work colleagues, conversation in pubs, community groups. local shopping centres, contact with public authorities etc And some of those perceptions ,however much we might dislike it, are based on their own experiences. Hence perceptions that 'immigrants get all the housing' or 'local girls deliberately get pregnant ' might attract national media headlines but are more likely to be confirmed by local people experience of applying for social housing and the area in which they live. Combine that with the disastrous effects of multiculturalism from above by local council and the government ( anyone ever seen the film Routes to Racism btw which explores this) , New labour and the liberal lefts support of this 'anti racism' which in many cases dismisses people anxieties and grievances and has a knack of siding with the 'oppressed' to the point of promoting double standards and its easy to see why we are in the state we are in.

Nigel’s point about "If 'Militant' anti fascism in Britain is to become a fighting force to be recond with tactics and policies along some sort of United Front may be a better way forward?(No the Orthodox Trot Version Necessarily) " in my view misses the point entirely . 'militant anti fascism isn't a principle its a tactic and that tactic has been redundant for some time. Isn't it time that 'anti fascists' actually said what they were in favour of rather than what they were against ? or more to the point actually ask the local working class what they are in favour of and come up with ways of meeting those issues through a pro working class standpoint?

yes agree .. particulalry the end bit

 

[frogwoman]

hi mate .. no i don't think my post IS exaggerated

.. yes of course the THREAT is totally exaggerated .. there is not a hope in hell that Islam will get anywhere outside of Pakistani/Indian origin communuties

.. but the anger after the London bombings, the Luton demo, all the AL Hamza and Choudry stuff, Burqa wearing women with placards calling for people to be beheaded .. these have made their mark .. and i know several people non activists older people who are angry about it .. the phrase that normally comes out is 'if they donlt like it here why don't they fuck off back to Pakistan/Afghanisatn/Saudi etc "

this is the thing about nationalism ( and family actually if you think about it ) .. that it is OK for those on the inside to criticise etc but NO ONE likes it when people from the outside start to have a go .. the immediate reaction is ALWAYS going to be 'who the fuck are YOU'

So people may have loads of criticisms of how this country has been run for decades maybe .. but IF you then have a group who you can not in any way relate too start bombing start demanding that the country change religion etc etc people are going to react ..

i agree with a lot of it and do know some people who say that sort of stuff, but i don't think they (or the majority of people are worried about muslims "taking over" the UK any time soon ...

 

[durruti02]

Anyone read the June edition of Freedom btw . Quite an interesting read : front page about care of our old folk and the 'self first culture of the capitalist system introduced by Tories and run by Labour', page 2 Troops out of Afghanistan, page 3 criticising other parties attendance at council meetings and battling to save Burnley schools, page 4 Britain is a Christian country page, page 6 Labour Mp says Britain will be an Islamic state in 30 years, and articles criticising Tesco’s profits . page 7 nationalise the banks and help small business and an article on donated British organs being sold to foreigners due to the EU,two pages on Euro lections, page 10 article on Women against Pit Closures , page 11 activity from BNP councillors , defections to BNP, and the rest on BNP activity including the attempted banning of a St Georges Day parade by Sandwell Council.

Actually an interesting read , well put together with a good balance of information, propaganda and adverts for their party and products. definitely give the impression that they are underdogs going somewhere with the good fight I'm afraid.

i haven't been looking at Freedom at all .. i regularly check the BNP site but have missed this .. shockingly depressingly good ..

 

[durruti02]

Why do you think Stasserite propaganda is more interesting than reporting on Kenyan war veterans campiagning for justice

I am assuming this is a joke right?

 

[durruti02]

i agree with a lot of it and do know some people who say that sort of stuff, but i don't think they (or the majority of people are worried about muslims "taking over" the UK any time soon ...

ok yes i agree .. i don't think they do either .. but they worry about it ( scapegoating of course .. most people have got far better things to worry about)
.. and it makes them angry ..

 

[The39thStep]

Why do you think Stasserite propaganda is more interesting than reporting on Kenyan war veterans campiagning for justice

I must pass my advanced worker consciouness test some time

 

[treelover]

I think too often a major tactical error of the Left is that it thinks its core issues are the core issues of the greater working class / middle class. They aren’t. The BNP isn’t making that mistake.

An example. Here in the States, there is currently a huge upsurge of hostility towards Goldman Sachs, even the New York Times, Bloomberg, and the Wall Street Journal are joining in. This is quite unusual. And really, isn’t this precisely what the far left should be organizing about? Grotesque theft and piggery from a capitalist icon who manipulates the market using their government ties to do so. Seems a perfect organizing issue to me.

But if you scan far left websites in the US, it’s all Iran, Iraq, Palestine, China. Virtually nothing on what should be a golden organizing opportunity -the current financial crisis.

The far left needs to be organizing based on jobs, housing, the financial crisis. But it’s not. The BNP is. Yes, their solution of racism and hatred is vile. But they are talking to workers about what their real concerns are. The Left isn’t. That’s what needs to change.

Forget Palestine. Talk about jobs and housing. For most workers, those issues are much more important. (Then talk about Palestine later on once they know and trust you.)

http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=4387#comments

Some U.S guy posted this on the Socialist Unity Blog,which for some reason is incredibly popular, in response to a piece by Salma Yaquub, , to me it sums up the situation perfectly.

 

[Nigel]

hi mate .. no i don't think my post IS exaggerated

.. yes of course the THREAT is totally exaggerated .. there is not a hope in hell that Islam will get anywhere outside of Pakistani/Indian origin communuties

.. but the anger after the London bombings, the Luton demo, all the AL Hamza and Choudry stuff, Burqa wearing women with placards calling for people to be beheaded .. these have made their mark .. and i know several people non activists older people who are angry about it .. the phrase that normally comes out is 'if they donlt like it here why don't they fuck off back to Pakistan/Afghanisatn/Saudi etc "

this is the thing about nationalism ( and family actually if you think about it ) .. that it is OK for those on the inside to criticise etc but NO ONE likes it when people from the outside start to have a go .. the immediate reaction is ALWAYS going to be 'who the fuck are YOU'

So people may have loads of criticisms of how this country has been run for decades maybe .. but IF you then have a group who you can not in any way relate too start bombing start demanding that the country change religion etc etc people are going to react ..

Do you have much contact with Muslim community, ever been in a Mosque, or are you just going by Steryotypical profiling by popular tabloid media?

 

[durruti02]

Do you have much contact with Muslim community, ever been in a Mosque, or are you just going by Steryotypical profiling by popular tabloid media?

yes i do .. not a fucntionning one .. no i am not

btw you post had nothing to do with what i had written hey ho

 

[Nigel]

Nigel’s point about "If 'Militant' anti fascism in Britain is to become a fighting force to be recond with tactics and policies along some sort of United Front may be a better way forward?(No the Orthodox Trot Version Necessarily) " in my view misses the point entirely . 'militant anti fascism isn't a principle its a tactic and that tactic has been redundant for some time. Isn't it time that 'anti fascists' actually said what they were in favour of rather than what they were against ? or more to the point actually ask the local working class what they are in favour of and come up with ways of meeting those issues through a pro working class standpoint?

To a point I agree.
However many people on here would see, from mine and many other peoples perception a Militant Anti Fascism as being a tradion: Spanish Civil War, Red Shirts, Cable Street, 43 Group, 63 Group, ANL(mark 1), AFA etc.

This tendency being the most capable and progressive.
Although AFA, arguably, indulged in subcultural politics/lifestyle etc. it wasn't compulsory. With Antifa this tendency could come more predominant, predominantely Anarchist/Autonomist, close connection to squatting movement/punk subculture, Black-Block Stylie etc.

 

[Nigel]

yes i do .. not a fucntionning one .. no i am not

btw you post had nothing to do with what i had written hey ho

Muslims(especially militants) being mostly Indian/Pakistani.
Implying no inter-connection with broader society.

 

[durruti02]

Muslims(especially militants) being mostly Indian/Pakistani.
Implying no inter-connection with broader society.

sorry what is your point?

 

[Nigel]

The inaccuracy and apologist stance on Islamophobia!

 

[durruti02]

The inaccuracy and apologist stance on Islamophobia!

what on earth are you talking about? if you have a direct point please make it

 

[butchersapron]

UAF conference last saturday - anyone go? Any reports?

Barnbrooks been signed off sick with stres btw the poor dear so handily couldn't appear at todays Standards committees meeting to discuss his making up three murders - suspension would have ben likely outcome. Meeting adjounred for one or two months.

 

[ViolentPanda]

UAF conference last saturday - anyone go? Any reports?

Barnbrooks been signed off sick with stres btw the poor dear so handily couldn't appear at todays Standards committees meeting to discuss his making up three murders - suspension would have ben likely outcome. Meeting adjounred for one or two months.

It'll take that long for one of his gimps to come up with a semi-convincing story to excuse his lies.

 

[JimPage]

UAF conference last saturday - anyone go? Any reports?

From SW this week.

dated 25 July 2009 | issue 2161

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=18553

Hundreds rally against fascists at UAF conference
by Esme Choonara

More than 400 anti-fascist activists from around Britain gathered in Manchester last weekend for a conference organised by Unite Against Fascism (UAF).

It followed the fascist British National Party (BNP) snatching two seats in the European parliament elections last month.

The tone of the conference was serious and determined.

Former Labour MEP Glyn Ford reminded people that, while we should not underestimate the scale of the threat, we should be aware that “we can beat them”.

Dominique Walker, whose brother Anthony was murdered by racists in Liverpool in 2005, summed up the feelings of many. “There’s no room for complacency. And I’m not having it any more,” she said to cheers from the conference.

Other speakers included Pav Akhtar from the Unison union, Dr Dilder Chowdhury from the Muslim Council of Britain and Sam Duckworth of the band Get Cape. Wear Cape. Fly.

There was also plenty of discussion by delegates from local UAF groups, trade unions and other community campaigns.

People agreed that the BNP is building out of a wider climate of discrimination and that the movement shouldn’t give any concessions on the question of Islamophobia or other forms of racism.

As one delegate put it, “We can’t allow any slippage. Appeasing the BNP’s agenda over the ‘British jobs for British workers’ slogans or over ‘local housing’—just strengthens them.”

Some speakers and delegates raised questions about whether UAF should back particular candidates in elections, but many people pointed out that this would split and fragment the movement.

There was very wide agreement that one key task for the movement is to keep pinning the label of Nazi on the BNP—and denying it the “respectability” it hopes will help promote its fascist politics.

One key chance to do this will be the mass, national protest at the BNP’s Red, White and Blue “festival” in Codnor, Derbyshire, on 15 August.

Weyman Bennett, joint national secretary of UAF, called on those at the conference to build the biggest possible turnout on the day. “We have to show that we are the majority,” he said.

The anti-fascist movement has entered a serious new phase.

No one was under any illusions that beating the BNP will be easy, but the conference was an important reminder of the energy and experience of a movement that can drive the Nazis back.

 

[JHE]

As one delegate put it, “We can’t allow any slippage...

Trans: No concessions to English plebs!

 

[Fedayn]

Esme 'Let the BNP spies into the SWP' Choonara? Oooh and some singer from a shite indie band.

And this bollocks.....

As one delegate put it, “We can’t allow any slippage. Appeasing the BNP’s agenda over the ‘British jobs for British workers’ slogans or over ‘local housing’—just strengthens them.”

Translates as the SWP desperate for backing over their shite position on the Lindsey Oil Refginery strikes.

 

[BruisedShins]

There was very wide agreement that one key task for the movement is to keep pinning the label of Nazi on the BNP—and denying it the “respectability” it hopes will help promote its fascist politics.

Yeah that approach clearly works and has got results over the last few years. We should definately be screaming "nazi's" at them as much as possible. Tackling the issues that have given rise to the BNP and looking to put class politics back on the agenda is just too time consuming. There's nothing like screaming "nazi" at someone who is concerned at the loss of jobs, lack of affordable housing and the crushing defeat of the working class in this country to make someone reassess their politics.

 

[FreddyB]

People agreed that the BNP is building out of a wider climate of discrimination and that the movement shouldn’t give any concessions on the question of Islamophobia or other forms of racism.

What does that mean?

 

[Zachor]

What does that mean?

It means they will concentrate their ire on white nationalist fash but ignore (or worse suck up to ) other forms of fash such as Islamic Clerical Fascism to the detriment of all including the average Muslim who probably just wants to keep their heads down and get on with life.

The Middle Class Trot left of the UAF are a bonus to the BNP not an effective opponent.

 

[FreddyB]

The BNP don't like the Islamic fundie loons so any opposition/criticism of those fundie loons comes from a position of racism/fascism.

It'd be funny if it wasn't so fucking tragic

 

[soam]

Not got it here as i am at work but i got a cracking e-mail from Barnsley UAF (sent to all 200 people on their mail list), about how the group is existing on a hand to mouth basis, and that the group needs to have a proper structure with treasurer, secretary, chair etc etc.

So BNP get 16% of the vote round here, they are holding weekly paper sales in the town centre, but the most pressing concern of UAF/SWP is bogging the group down into burocracy and translating the energy that some newcomers into political action might have into, for want of a better term, shite!!

 

[audiotech]

Not got it here as i am at work but i got a cracking e-mail from Barnsley UAF (sent to all 200 people on their mail list), about how the group is existing on a hand to mouth basis, and that the group needs to have a proper structure with treasurer, secretary, chair etc etc.

So BNP get 16% of the vote round here, they are holding weekly paper sales in the town centre, but the most pressing concern of UAF/SWP is bogging the group down into burocracy and translating the energy that some newcomers into political action might have into, for want of a better term, shite!!

I understood that UAF were organising to 'Converge on Codnor to stop the BNP rally'?