Griffin and BNP strategy

[Joe Reilly]

From SW this week.

dated 25 July 2009 | issue 2161

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/ar...m' has been losing hand over fist ever since.

 

[TremulousTetra]

Yeah that approach clearly works and has got results over the last few years. We should definately be screaming "nazi's" at them as much as possible. Tackling the issues that have given rise to the BNP and looking to put class politics back on the agenda is just too time consuming. There's nothing like screaming "nazi" at someone who is concerned at the loss of jobs, lack of affordable housing and the crushing defeat of the working class in this country to make someone reassess their politics.

and what about defining Griffin as a fascist? This has had no effect whatsoever? If you think so, you need to get out more.

 

[durruti02]

From SW this week.

dated 25 July 2009 | issue 2161

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=18553

Hundreds rally against fascists at UAF conference
by Esme Choonara

More than 400 anti-fascist activists from around Britain gathered in Manchester last weekend for a conference organised by Unite Against Fascism (UAF).

It followed the fascist British National Party (BNP) snatching two seats in the European parliament elections last month.

The tone of the conference was serious and determined.

Former Labour MEP Glyn Ford reminded people that, while we should not underestimate the scale of the threat, we should be aware that “we can beat them”.

Dominique Walker, whose brother Anthony was murdered by racists in Liverpool in 2005, summed up the feelings of many. “There’s no room for complacency. And I’m not having it any more,” she said to cheers from the conference.

Other speakers included Pav Akhtar from the Unison union, Dr Dilder Chowdhury from the Muslim Council of Britain and Sam Duckworth of the band Get Cape. Wear Cape. Fly.

There was also plenty of discussion by delegates from local UAF groups, trade unions and other community campaigns.

People agreed that the BNP is building out of a wider climate of discrimination and that the movement shouldn’t give any concessions on the question of Islamophobia or other forms of racism.

As one delegate put it, “We can’t allow any slippage. Appeasing the BNP’s agenda over the ‘British jobs for British workers’ slogans or over ‘local housing’—just strengthens them.”

Some speakers and delegates raised questions about whether UAF should back particular candidates in elections, but many people pointed out that this would split and fragment the movement.

There was very wide agreement that one key task for the movement is to keep pinning the label of Nazi on the BNP—and denying it the “respectability” it hopes will help promote its fascist politics.

One key chance to do this will be the mass, national protest at the BNP’s Red, White and Blue “festival” in Codnor, Derbyshire, on 15 August.

Weyman Bennett, joint national secretary of UAF, called on those at the conference to build the biggest possible turnout on the day. “We have to show that we are the majority,” he said.

The anti-fascist movement has entered a serious new phase.

No one was under any illusions that beating the BNP will be easy, but the conference was an important reminder of the energy and experience of a movement that can drive the Nazis back.

jesus christ when will these idiots learn .. honestly they are driving people into the arms of the BNP

 

[durruti02]

Yeah that approach clearly works and has got results over the last few years. We should definately be screaming "nazi's" at them as much as possible. Tackling the issues that have given rise to the BNP and looking to put class politics back on the agenda is just too time consuming. There's nothing like screaming "nazi" at someone who is concerned at the loss of jobs, lack of affordable housing and the crushing defeat of the working class in this country to make someone reassess their politics.

indeed

though to be fair most w/c british people are nasty racists and if not they do not understand imperialism correctly and they probably care more about their families than migrants so hey lets shout at them anyway NAZIS OUT! NAZIS OUT! NAZIS OUT!

 

[durruti02]

and what about defining Griffin as a fascist? This has had no effect whatsoever? If you think so, you need to get out more.

RMP3

do you listen to people who do not appear to give a fuck about you?

yes saying Griffin is a nazi is important .. but if it comes from people who appear alien or opposed to your interests actually it is worse than useless .. it may make people think, "actually maybe the Nazis were OK cos this Mr Griffin seems OK"

 

[TremulousTetra]

RMP3
do you listen to people who do not appear to give a fuck about you?
yes saying Griffin is a nazi is important .. but if it comes from people who appear alien or opposed to your interests actually it is worse than useless .. it may make people think, "actually maybe the Nazis were OK cos this Mr Griffin seems OK"

I'm sorry durrito, you know I respect you much more than the toy town revolutionary, but like butcher's apron for 64 pages, you seem to be misunderstanding the target audience of the anti fascists. You need to RE read my question, and answer it. The question isn't about those who have voted BNP, it is about those who haven't.

btw. Please don't take this question the wrong way, but do you actually talk to BNP supporters?

 

[JimPage]

I understood that UAF were organising to 'Converge on Codnor to stop the BNP rally'?

Yep they are promising to "Kettle" the event to close it down, I assume by the use of physical force. I have funny feeling it is they who will be kettled up on the day

The first time however, i think, where the idea of a peaceful rally and photo-opportunity is not even on the agenda for the SWP

 

[JimPage]

A statement that could be dated 'spring 1994'. That was when the BNP abandoned their attempt to control the streets and opted for a euro-nationalist strategy.

And though it shows no signs of being aware of it conservative 'anti-fascism' has been losing hand over fist ever since.

I dont think that they recognise the fact that they are losing-see their post election analysis. If antifascism continues to lie to itself, such as the oft repeated one that the BNP vote went down in June, then it cant even start to find the new strategies needed

In particular, they are convinced the election of the MEPs will lead to a return to street violence on the left, terorrism and a return to the march and grow strategy.

Not wanting to be unkind, but I just dont understand why they are saying this.

And I dont trust their leadership in as far as protecting people from getting masses of people nicked on injured in some mad charge up a country lane

I am in all honesty not picking or slagging off UAF, but they they need to explain much better what they are up to

 

[CUMBRIANDRAGON]

It means they will concentrate their ire on white nationalist fash but ignore (or worse suck up to ) other forms of fash such as Islamic Clerical Fascism to the detriment of all including the average Muslim who probably just wants to keep their heads down and get on with life.

The Middle Class Trot left of the UAF are a bonus to the BNP not an effective opponent.

The middle class trots and UAF are a god send for the bnp.

Forget about class struggle forget about islamic clerical islam .Everything in society will be ok as soon as the bnp re dealt with.

as jonny rotten says

ever had the feeling you been swindled?

 

[CUMBRIANDRAGON]

Yep they are promising to "Kettle" the event to close it down, I assume by the use of physical force. I have funny feeling it is they who will be kettled up on the day

The first time however, i think, where the idea of a peaceful rally and photo-opportunity is not even on the agenda for the SWP

What is the point of kettling a bnp event? by uaf and swp etc?

Can someone not grab them by the neck and remind them about class politics

 

[durruti02]

I'm sorry durrito, you know I respect you much more than the toy town revolutionary, but like butcher's apron for 64 pages, you seem to be misunderstanding the target audience of the anti fascists. You need to RE read my question, and answer it. The question isn't about those who have voted BNP, it is about those who haven't.

btw. Please don't take this question the wrong way, but do you actually talk to BNP supporters?

hi RMP3

yes i totally agree that saying that griffin is a nazi will put off many people from voting BNP .. indeed after the euros i accepted, on this thread i think, that the HnH camapign probably had a decent affect on the BNP vote

however to me that is irrelevent .. i do not worry that the majority any time soon will vote BNP .. it is the damage the BNP can do in w/c communities that is the issue.

so for me the question has never been how to stop people voting BNP , it is always been about how to replace the BNP in w/c communities

and with over a million people already votig BNP i.e. for Griffin it is indeed dangerous to go on about him being a Nazi..

At the moment we do not have a Nazi movement in the UK. IF we fail to deal with the BNP by offerring a grassroots alternative and instead simply shouting Nazi we could actually push a significant % of those 1 MIllion BNP voters into identifying as Nazis

and yes i do speak to BNP voters or those thinking about it .. i work with some and e.g. met others at Visteon, people sat side by side with black and asian workmates who clearly were thinking of voting BNP. I know almost all of these people would not give a monkeys about Griffin being a Nazi .. they have discounted it .. they see this as grassroots protest vote

btw what stopped one work mate from voting BNP again was not just ridicule form the rest of us but mostly from an ex NFer who argued that ALL politicians are scum and on the make

 

[treelover]

The most recent 'honour killing' in East London where an 'adulturer' was forced to drink acid!, won't help either, there has to be strong condemnation of this cultural fascism' as well.

 

[butchersapron]

hi RMP3

yes i totally agree that saying that griffin is a nazi will put off many people from voting BNP .. indeed after the euros i accepted, on this thread i think, that the HnH camapign probably had a decent affect on the BNP vote

What on earth makes you think that - even Searchlight have attacked that cul-de-sac.

 

[TremulousTetra]

The most recent 'honour killing' in East London where an 'adulturer' was forced to drink acid!, won't help either, there has to be strong condemnation of this cultural fascism' as well.

everyones a fascist, and fascism totally loses all meaning.

 

[The39thStep]

A decent anti fascist resource would be one that spelt out the anti working class nature of some of the BNP policies.

 

[Joe Reilly]

I dont think that they recognise the fact that they are losing-see their post election analysis. If antifascism continues to lie to itself, such as the oft repeated one that the BNP vote went down in June, then it cant even start to find the new strategies needed

In particular, they are convinced the election of the MEPs will lead to a return to street violence on the left, terorrism and a return to the march and grow strategy.

Not wanting to be unkind, but I just dont understand why they are saying this.

And I dont trust their leadership in as far as protecting people from getting masses of people nicked on injured in some mad charge up a country lane

I am in all honesty not picking or slagging off UAF, but they they need to explain much better what they are up to

They don't need to explain and no one need bother to ask them anymore as the anti-fascism on offer is a charade, whose sole function is to protect the right of centre mainstream parties from the wrath of working class voters.

True, it can prove sort of embarrassing, and, though predictable, and indeed predicted, it is a real shame that anti-fascism has been prostituted in such a way, but in the real world it amounts to little more than a freak/side show for the delectation of the media and the BNP.

So let them get on with it.

Back in real world the job for the rest of us is to work on a plan to displace the BNP as the 'radical alternative' in the longer term.

 

[TremulousTetra]

A decent anti fascist resource would be one that spelt out the anti working class nature of some of the BNP policies.

seriously, please contribute that info to; http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=9457892#post9457892

 

[durruti02]

What on earth makes you think that - even Searchlight have attacked that cul-de-sac.

the HNH campaign was massive. They not only delivered millions of leaflets and newsletters but had millions more articles placed in the Mirror ( and someone said the Sun was using their stuff too??)

And it is clear the BNP did NOT do as well in the elections as they would of hoped in a period of extreme dissatisfaction with the politicians from the established parties.

and it is clear the Nazi argument works with many people.

As much as it is clear most people who vote BNP are NOT Nazi and do not want to be associated with Nazis

So i think it extremely likely the HnH campaign stopped many tens of thousands voting BNP.

As i said though to me this is not important.

No one who was put off voting BNP this time was/has been offered any real alternative and so it is extremely likely that this strategy has a short shelf life

My position has been all the time that any put in needs to be on the basis of creating an alternative. i do not buy the argument HnH gives us space/time to build that alternative

 

[TremulousTetra]

the HNH campaign was massive. They not only delivered millions of leaflets and newsletters but had millions more articles placed in the Mirror ( and someone said the Sun was using their stuff too??)

And it is clear the BNP did NOT do as well in the elections as they would of hoped in a period of extreme dissatisfaction with the politicians from the established parties.

and it is clear the Nazi argument works with many people.

As much as it is clear most people who vote BNP are NOT Nazi and do not want to be associated with Nazis

So i think it extremely likely the HnH campaign stopped many tens of thousands voting BNP.

As i said though to me this is not important.

No one who was put off voting BNP this time was/has been offered any real alternative and so it is extremely likely that this strategy has a short shelf life
My position has been all the time that any put in needs to be on the basis of creating an alternative. i do not buy the argument HnH gives us space/time to build that alternative

Excellent post. IMHO

 

[Fedayn]

Dormanstown by-election result

Election held yesterday, count this morning

Lib Dems 805
Lab 515
bnp 145
Con 73
Turnout 29.8%

April 2009: LibDem 809 Lab 667 BNP 305 Con 125

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Article here about the BNP's shit stirring racist lies in the Norwich North by-election:

http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2009/07/22/the-bnps-lies-in-norwich-north/

 

[The39thStep]

Reddish North (Stockport) by election last Thursday

Lab 1218 (49.5%) +1%
Con 403 (16.4%) -8.8%
UKIP 342 (13.9%) +13.9%
LD 303 (12.3%) + 0.7%
BNP 195 (7.9%) - 6.6%


2008 result
Lab 1341
Con 699
BNP 402
LibDem 321

The absence of mass leafletting saying don't vote nazi probably explains their relatively poor result!

 

[Stoat Boy]

Or perhaps UKIP offer many of those who might have considered voting BNP a more respectable way of protest voting ?

Maybe you lefties should team up with UKIP

 

[CUMBRIANDRAGON]

hi RMP3

yes i totally agree that saying that griffin is a nazi will put off many people from voting BNP .. indeed after the euros i accepted, on this thread i think, that the HnH camapign probably had a decent affect on the BNP vote

however to me that is irrelevent .. i do not worry that the majority any time soon will vote BNP .. it is the damage the BNP can do in w/c communities that is the issue.

so for me the question has never been how to stop people voting BNP , it is always been about how to replace the BNP in w/c communities

and with over a million people already votig BNP i.e. for Griffin it is indeed dangerous to go on about him being a Nazi..

At the moment we do not have a Nazi movement in the UK. IF we fail to deal with the BNP by offerring a grassroots alternative and instead simply shouting Nazi we could actually push a significant % of those 1 MIllion BNP voters into identifying as Nazis

and yes i do speak to BNP voters or those thinking about it .. i work with some and e.g. met others at Visteon, people sat side by side with black and asian workmates who clearly were thinking of voting BNP. I know almost all of these people would not give a monkeys about Griffin being a Nazi .. they have discounted it .. they see this as grassroots protest vote

btw what stopped one work mate from voting BNP again was not just ridicule form the rest of us but mostly from an ex NFer who argued that ALL politicians are scum and on the make

This is definantly the voice of reason instead of trying to stop people votting bnp we should be giving people an alternative .
Its better to organise multicultural projects bring people together instead of shouting nazi scum of our streets which just sounds childish.

 

[The39thStep]

Or perhaps UKIP offer many of those who might have considered voting BNP a more respectable way of protest voting ?

Maybe you lefties should team up with UKIP

we normally vote NF to keep the BNP out

 

[JimPage]

By election tomorrow in Sadie Graham`s old seat in Brinsley- i dont expect them to retain this one and expect a drop to 3rd place for them here.

They have had a run of below average results- and UKIP seems to now be beating them wherever they stand

 

[durruti02]

http://www.broxtowe.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=557 lost yes but not dropped that far still nearly 30% of the vote!

Candidate Party Votes Cast Elected

John Leslie Booth Conservative 416 Elected

Janina Anna Brown (Known as Nina) British National Party 288

Stuart William Hosker Libral Democrats 224

Edward Jacobs Labour 68

Keith Willoughby UK Independence 21

2007 Results
Electorate: 1861 | Seats: 01 | Ballot Papers: 1002 | % Poll: 53.84

Candidate Party Votes Cast Elected

Sadie Graham British National Party 439 Elected

Robert Murray Labour 295

Wlady Wilhardt Independent 155

Kenneth Graham Phillips Independent 109


turnout seems abut the same ..

 

[JHE]

http://www.broxtowe.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=557 lost yes but not dropped that far still nearly 30% of the vote!

Candidate Party Votes Cast Elected

John Leslie Booth Conservative 416 Elected

Janina Anna Brown (Known as Nina) British National Party 288

Stuart William Hosker Libral Democrats 224

Edward Jacobs Labour 68

Keith Willoughby UK Independence 21

2007 Results
Electorate: 1861 | Seats: 01 | Ballot Papers: 1002 | % Poll: 53.84

Candidate Party Votes Cast Elected

Sadie Graham British National Party 439 Elected

Robert Murray Labour 295

Wlady Wilhardt Independent 155

Kenneth Graham Phillips Independent 109


turnout seems abut the same ..

Is that the full info about candidates and votes in 2007? If it is, Sadie Graham, the then candidate for the BNP, won in a contest which did not include either a Tory candidate or a Lib Dem candidate.

(The Labour vote has slumped, I notice.)

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Far-right activists have launched a campaign of intimidation and violence against political opponents including a series of death threats and physical attacks.

Hardline fascists are targeting students and leading anti-racism activists who campaigned against the British National Party in June's European elections.

A group calling itself the Aryan Martyrs' Brigade has issued threats including a "death warrant" sent to Weyman Bennett, the joint secretary of Unite Against Fascism, stating he will be killed before the end of the year "for crimes against all loyal white patriots and British nationalists".

The threat, which the police are investigating and has a picture of Bennett in cross hairs, states: "We know exactly what you look like and what venues you frequent and can strike at will. The police, special branch, MI5, Searchlight cannot save you from the bullets coming your way. No matter where you are, we will get you, all we need is a lock on your mobile phone signal and you are one dead nigger."

...Bennett, who has received threats in the past, has been told by the police to take the latest death threat more seriously.

...Simon Darby, deputy leader of the BNP, said the attacks and threats had nothing to do with the party.

"It is rather ironic that they are complaining about being attacked when they use similar tactics themselves," he added.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/02/far-right-campaign-of-violence

 

[butchersapron]

Matthew Taylor a long establised Searchlight conduit.

Aryan Martyrs' Brigade

-come the fuck on, this isn't serious, this is the always existing nutty fringe being nutty. It's irrelevant - but of course, the UAF and Searchlight are going to a make linking this idicocy with the BNP the central approach of their already faileld model, rather than any actual politics.

edit: they're also going to develop this two-level nonsense, of there being an official BNP and a secret shadowy terrorist BNP.