Griffin and BNP strategy
- Thread starter durruti02
- Start date
Agree there. One thing I noticed (to my great frustration) is how the bnp activists came over as concerned and interested in peoples problems and issues whereas the anti fash in the form of the trot dominated groups just came over as abusive wanky students. Thats not to say all anti fash groups are made up of wanky trot students but it wold do the anti fash well to consider how their activities are coming across with potential bnp voters.
Rod Sleeves
New Member
This is the nub of it. Is serious anti-facism about looking like shouty fools and demanding a vote for the mainstream, or is about building a progressive, radical, working class alternative that actually listens to people's demands, and indeed facilitates the articulation of such demands.
There is a place in anti facism for gigs and parties that promote unity and anti racism, and there is a place for physical confrontation with the far right when required, but unless we're committed to building a real alternative they will be a waste of time and resources.
Yup I saw in one borough I lived in the anti fash telling people to vote for the same New Labour party that had fucked up the lives of the very people who were voting bnp in order to send a message to NL.
Agree there. Although I'm not of the Left I share with others an abhorence of fash in all its forms.
Wanky gig based anti fascism like the Rise festival only preaches to the converted and doesn't stop one vote going to the bnp.
In their defence at least they are trying to combat the BNP but I would agree with the general perception that in some ways it seems to be more of a fashion statement for many on the left to proclaim thier hatred of the BNP which can seem to become almost a competition amongst them to see who can rant the most.
But, and this is the main issue, there is not a genuine working class alternative. The left seem far to hung up on this notion of internationalism mixed with a nice dose of global warming hysteria to actually seem to listen to the real concerns of people who are voting BNP and quite frankly seem incapable of actually doing anything to help them.
If some poor bloke has lost his job due to cheap foreign labour then its all very well and good to make the case that its the capitalist system at fault rather than the poor Pole/Italian/what ever just trying to look after his family but that does not pay the mortgage.
I do think there is some value in making the idea of voting BNP a shameful one and if the BNP are exposed for what they really are i.e part of a far-larger pan-European national movement who would have been cheering on the Nazi's in World War 2 then you can persuade people not to vote for them. Its what I have done on a couple of occassions but that can only be done if you genuinely try and understand why people are considering the BNP in the first place and that seems to be an area that many on the left cannot even bring themselves to contemplate.
But, and this is the main issue, there is not a genuine working class alternative. The left seem far to hung up on this notion of internationalism mixed with a nice dose of global warming hysteria to actually seem to listen to the real concerns of people who are voting BNP and quite frankly seem incapable of actually doing anything to help them.
If some poor bloke has lost his job due to cheap foreign labour then its all very well and good to make the case that its the capitalist system at fault rather than the poor Pole/Italian/what ever just trying to look after his family but that does not pay the mortgage.
I do think there is some value in making the idea of voting BNP a shameful one and if the BNP are exposed for what they really are i.e part of a far-larger pan-European national movement who would have been cheering on the Nazi's in World War 2 then you can persuade people not to vote for them. Its what I have done on a couple of occassions but that can only be done if you genuinely try and understand why people are considering the BNP in the first place and that seems to be an area that many on the left cannot even bring themselves to contemplate.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
"This is the nub of it. Is serious anti-facism about looking like shouty fools and demanding a vote for the mainstream, or is about building a progressive, radical, working class alternative that actually listens to people's demands, and indeed facilitates the articulation of such demands."
At local level this does go on. Green Party, Respect, Independents etc. are all capable of fulfilling that role. Community Action Party in Wigan became the opposition with about 18 seats, though I think there's been a split now
The Green Party in Kirklees has just secured a massive home insulation scheme, providing local employment, with just 3 councillors.
Of course it doesnt happen nearly enough, and where it doesnt happen it is only natural that the fascists put in an effort.
I still hope more socialist unity can arise at a national level which builds on this, but history shows us we shouldnt hold our breath.
There are 1000 independents in this country, obviously many will be conservative but imagine if one progressive party in this country had quite a few hundred (Greens have about 110 I think).
That level of success would indeed eclipse anything the far right could pretend to offer beyond their usual race/"culture" analysis.
On another matter entirely: The UKIP posters are going up in my area, to the hopeful detriment of the fash.
At local level this does go on. Green Party, Respect, Independents etc. are all capable of fulfilling that role. Community Action Party in Wigan became the opposition with about 18 seats, though I think there's been a split now
The Green Party in Kirklees has just secured a massive home insulation scheme, providing local employment, with just 3 councillors.
Of course it doesnt happen nearly enough, and where it doesnt happen it is only natural that the fascists put in an effort.
I still hope more socialist unity can arise at a national level which builds on this, but history shows us we shouldnt hold our breath.
There are 1000 independents in this country, obviously many will be conservative but imagine if one progressive party in this country had quite a few hundred (Greens have about 110 I think).
That level of success would indeed eclipse anything the far right could pretend to offer beyond their usual race/"culture" analysis.
On another matter entirely: The UKIP posters are going up in my area, to the hopeful detriment of the fash.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
God you're a nob sometimes.
Yes it's really wanky to put on a gig and dedicate it to the fight against racism.
Fucking hell.
God you're a nob sometimes.
Yes it's really wanky to put on a gig and dedicate it to the fight against racism.
Fucking hell.
I'm afraid it is wanky. I've been to some events like this and the clientele is almost totally made of up either the hard left, fruitloop groups and those who are not racist in any way in the first place. It doesn't stop one BNP vote. Such events might have been effective back in the late 70;s but not now.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
God you're a nob sometimes.
Yes it's really wanky to put on a gig and dedicate it to the fight against racism.
Fucking hell.
Fair point. Critiquing peoples efforts is one thing, but there is such a thing as throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
I think that must be true, because the BNP support in opinion polls seems to be up more across the board than just in locales where they organise. It is a fairly strong brand, more so by now than when the NF were at their peak, though that is before my time.
And this is in a LibDem ward- the sort of ward they have traditionally found hard to break. The turnout here is liekly to be similar to that of the Euros, and as you say, its a larger than average ward as they are in sheffield
The worrying this is this. Its one thing winning say 20% in a ward in a smaller authority say Sevenoaks, Boston etc. Its harder in the larger city wards to poll say 15% ish, with much more local opposition and more dynamic mainstream parties ( say in Leeds, Manchester, Sheffield and Newcastle where they have done just that recently). In the euros, that is where the bulk of the voters live. So a 14% vote this near to the Euros is not a good sign
Agreed the Nazi aspect is still the biggest weapon Antifascists still have, but it isnt helped by the Bull put out by Searchlight in their euro leaflet which leads on "BNP to link with NPD in Europe" (NPD are the german facist party)
NPD arent even standing......
Few more
Now up to 11 in Copeland
4 in Harborough
3 in Barrow
Nominations close on Tuesday- from waht i can see expect enoughr county council nominations to earn the BNP a second Party Political Broadcast
I still think its important to link the BNP with European fascist partys though because they are all part of the same agenda, at least with regards to their leadership and broader agenda. Its what I stress to people who show an inclination to vote BNP based on a British nationalist agenda because its obvious that once you start defining nationality based solely on racial identity then its only logical that this is expanded to become more pan-European than anything on offer from the current mainstream partys.
I know some very knowledgable people on here have dismissed the notion of the '14 words' as just being something that a very fanactical minority on the right adhere too I still think its the very thing that underpins the Euro-right and that will, over the course of the next two decades, come to the fore front of it.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
interesting post.
What's a Tory doing at an anti racist gig?
european slate announced .. all suit and tie .. and very middle class .. only a couple of w/c in there
htt p://bnp. org.uk/ category /european-elections/
though can't find election leaflets
htt p://bnp. org.uk/ category /european-elections/
though can't find election leaflets
Right a bit of good news to start with
http://www.predict09.eu/default/en-us/state_analyses.aspx
Predict 09 have the BNP vote already starting to collapse- down to 4.4% nationwide- from 4.9% in 2004
First 2 County Council numbers confirmation
Leicestershire 48
Cumbria 41
http://www.predict09.eu/default/en-us/state_analyses.aspx
Predict 09 have the BNP vote already starting to collapse- down to 4.4% nationwide- from 4.9% in 2004
First 2 County Council numbers confirmation
Leicestershire 48
Cumbria 41
You can be right wing but not racist.
dennisr
the acceptable face
zionist apologist?
Rod Sleeves
New Member
Hmm, I don't know, they say that the BNP MAY gain IF the UKIP vote collapses, is there any suggestion that the UKIP vote won't collapse? I mean they have them down as getting four seats down from 12(10). While I admit that many casual UKIP voters won't exactly be keeping up with all the feuding and splits, they have been near invisible in terms of actual campaigning this time, and obviously they don't have a high profile celeb candidate this time as far as I'm aware.
The UKIP vote always increases for the Euros, and while I can't see them doing as well as in 2004, 10% for them is forseeable.
Zionism is not racism the only people who think like that are trots, ignoramuses and terrorist apologists.
BNP standing in both North Tyneside and Doncaster Mayoral Elections
117 in total in East of England- including full slate of 75 in Essex
115 in total in East Midlands
<puts on Cassandra hat>
Can't see them doing well in Tyneside. Doncaster they won't win the mayoralty but they will do respectably well mostly due to Labour being shit and negative publicity about child safety cases there.
Will probably do well in South Essex but not so well in other parts. Areas that have had an influx of people escaping what they see as the Islamification of their former areas will prob vote fash as well. Add in the normal white flight factor in the areas of essex bordering Havering and Dagenham and they will do quite well.
passthesalt
Optimistic Cynic
Also understand that they could be fighting a ward in Havering (on same day as Euro elections) where the local Independent (former Tory) councillor has just been done for child pornography.
http://www.havering.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=15729
http://www.romfordrecorder.co.uk/co...wsromford&itemid=WeED14 Apr 2009 10:19:51:600
http://www.havering.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=15729
http://www.romfordrecorder.co.uk/co...wsromford&itemid=WeED14 Apr 2009 10:19:51:600
Few more confirmations as to totals in counties- lots of partial lists in for Counties as well, will wait until full totals confirmed
3 Suffolk CC
12 North Yorkshire CC
5 Norfolk CC
12 Northamptonshire CC
28 Hertfordshire CC
Total will be over 400 allegedlt compared to 35 CC seats in 2005
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