Griffin and BNP strategy

[KeyboardJockey]

They seem to be doing that very consciously, crawling up Melanie Phillips' doubtless tight backside for a start.

Surely you are not suggesting that Mad Mel would be persuaded to be a public supporter of the bnp!!?? If that happened at least it would spell the end of her frankly barking column.

More likley they are going to pick their candidates more carefully to make them more respectable.

Bnp have realised that there is a sheaf of votes to be garnered by publicly dropping the knuckledraggers and appealing to the normal patriotic voter so that they can be ready to pick up their votes when the next islamofacist* atrocity happens or when the enonomy wobbles due to fuel issues.



*Islamofacists ae the nutjobs not the ordinary muslims.

 

[dash_two]

Sorry, nino, but I got in there first with the question about the poll results. You make a good go at answering that and then I'll answer your question above as best I can.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

You came out with the preposterous notion that the BNP could be 'tackled' by "ending immigration". It seems to me that it is you who has some explaining to do.

Maybe not by ending immigration but it can't be denied that it is an issue that chimes negatively with many voters but by cutting the bnp off at the root by tackling access to housing and prioriting sons and daughters. Do this and taking away the main cause of the fash support and a lot of the bnp will wither on the vine.

 

[nino_savatte]

Sorry, nino, but I got in there first with the question about the poll results. You make a good go at answering that and then I'll answer your question above as best I can.

You're not in the school playground now, son. You're the one who came out with the notion that the BNP could be 'tackled' by ending immigration.

You also realise that the BNP support forced repatriation too, don't you? What's your position on that?


This should be interesting

 

[dash_two]

Surely you are not suggesting that Mad Mel would be persuaded to be a public supporter of the bnp!!??

No, I don't think there's any chance of that. But they're keen to point to mainstream media figures and say 'That's just what we're saying, well done!' All part of a strategy of normalisation. Also, trying not to appear anti-semitic is important to them.

 

[nino_savatte]

Maybe not by ending immigration but it can't be denied that it is an issue that chimes negatively with many voters but by cutting the bnp off at the root by tackling access to housing and prioriting sons and daughters. Do this and taking away the main cause of the fash support and a lot of the bnp will wither on the vine.

]

The trouble is, those who bleat on about immigration and how it "panders to the BNP" overlook some salient facts, such as the 500 Britons who leave this country everyday for a better life elsewhere. we constantly hear the tabloids and others crap on about "mass migration" but I have seen no evidence for "mass migration".

There are better ways to tackle the BNP than to mimic their policies and their attitudes.

 

[dash_two]

You're not in the school playground now, son.

I'll leave you in the position of expert on what goes on in school playgrounds. You probably hang around enough of them.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

No, I don't think there's any chance of that. But they're keen to point to mainstream media figures and say 'That's just what we're saying, well done!' All part of a strategy of normalisation. Also, trying not to appear anti-semitic is important to them.

If Mad Mel supports the bnp then maybe she will lose her Jewish Chronicle column which would be a bonus. I know that the bnp boneheads are antisemitic I've fucking heard them but they need to hide this to convince middle england.

 

[nino_savatte]

I'll leave you in the position of expert on what goes on in school playgrounds. You probably hang around enough of them.

Not a very good comeback, dash. You're the one who came out with the "I said it first" line.

I'll take this as another example of your intellectual cowardice.

Oh and suggesting that I "hang around playgrounds" sounds suspiciously as though you are suggesting something else. I suggest you retract that statement, lest you be accused of accusing me of paedophilia.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

]

The trouble is, those who bleat on about immigration and how it "panders to the BNP" overlook some salient facts, such as the 500 Britons who leave this country everyday for a better life elsewhere. we constantly hear the tabloids and others crap on about "mass migration" but I have seen no evidence for "mass migration".

There are better ways to tackle the BNP than to mimic their policies and their attitudes.

Providing a socialist alternative seems to be failing though.

Prioriting locals (whatever their colour and creed ) for housing would at least remove one of the bnps main campaigning strategies and leave them exposed as the wankers they are.

 

[nino_savatte]

Providing a socialist alternative seems to be failing though.

Prioriting locals (whatever their colour and creed ) for housing would at least remove one of the bnps main campaigning strategies and leave them exposed as the wankers they are.

dash_two is suggesting that we end immigration; that is lazy thinking that can only pander to the far right. As far as housing goes, this is an issue that goes beyond the politics of hatred. The Thatcher government sold off council homes and forbade local authorities from building any more. The housing currently being built is not for those on low incomes but those who want to get onto the "property ladder".

 

[dash_two]

If Mad Mel supports the bnp then maybe she will lose her Jewish Chronicle column which would be a bonus. I know that the bnp boneheads are antisemitic I've fucking heard them but they need to hide this to convince middle england.

Also, they see the Muslim issue as a huge long-term opportunity for them. It's a case of the more intelligent and lucid members telling their fellows to put their various hobbyhorses (race and IQ, Jewish conspiracies etc) to one side and 'Keep your eye on the ball'.

A good article by Jeremy Seabrook appeared in the Guardian in 2004. Seabrook is a glass-half-empty sort of man, but he develops an argument saying there are parallels between the position of Muslims in Britain today and that of Catholics in England in the 18th century.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1207467,00.html

 

[KeyboardJockey]

dash_two is suggesting that we end immigration; that is lazy thinking that can only pander to the far right. As far as housing goes, this is an issue that goes beyond the politics of hatred. The Thatcher government sold off council homes and forbade local authorities from building any more. The housing currently being built is not for those on low incomes but those who want to get onto the "property ladder".

The problem is by the time a left govt has built enough houses to make up the shortfall the bnp would have exploited this lack of houses and would probably be in a very powerful position.

The only way to stop the bnp growing while increasing the housing stock is to bring back a modified sons and daughters poliicy.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Also, they see the Muslim issue as a huge long-term opportunity for them. It's a case of the more intelligent and lucid members telling their fellows to put their various hobbyhorses (race and IQ, Jewish conspiracies etc) to one side and 'Keep your eye on the ball'.

A good article by Jeremy Seabrook appeared in the Guardian in 2004. Seabrook is a glass-half-empty sort of man, but he develops an argument saying there are parallels between the position of Muslims in Britain today and that of Catholics in England in the 18th century.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1207467,00.html

Spot on. There are parallels between the Islamofash who want to impose muslim rule throughout the world and the ultra catholics who wanted to reconvert england. Both want to impose alien theocracies by force.

You are right the muslim issue is a huge future vote winner for the bnp.

 

[nino_savatte]

The problem is by the time a left govt has built enough houses to make up the shortfall the bnp would have exploited this lack of houses and would probably be in a very powerful position.

The only way to stop the bnp growing while increasing the housing stock is to bring back a modified sons and daughters poliicy.

Sure but you cannot deny that there is a serious amount of scapegoating going on. The BNP are exploiting it and others are trying to mimic them to steal their votes. I don't see any real solutions apart from building more social housing.

 

[nino_savatte]

Spot on. There are parallels between the Islamofash who want to impose muslim rule throughout the world and the ultra catholics who wanted to reconvert england. Both want to impose alien theocracies by force.

You are right the muslim issue is a huge future vote winner for the bnp.

These so-called "Islamo-fascists" (an Americanism and wholly incorrect) are in a minority. Yet, what I tend to find is that Muslims are given the broad brush treatment; in other words, as far as many on this forum are concerned, they are evil and hellbent on our destruction.

 

[dash_two]

Spot on. There are parallels between the Islamofash who want to impose muslim rule throughout the world and the ultra catholics who wanted to reconvert england. Both want to impose alien theocracies by force.

True, but it is not just about what Islamist nutters stand for. It is that Muslims as a whole make a very convenient 'outsider' group to target and stoke up fear against. There are all sorts of reasons from the BNP perspective why Pakistani and Bangladeshi Muslims fit the bill much better than, say, Caribbeans or Africans or Sikhs or Chinese.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Sure but you cannot deny that there is a serious amount of scapegoating going on. The BNP are exploiting it and others are trying to mimic them to steal their votes. I don't see any real solutions apart from building more social housing.

Of course there is scapegoating but by the time the houses are built the bnp will have got even more support.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

These so-called "Islamo-fascists" (an Americanism and wholly incorrect) are in a minority. Yet, what I tend to find is that Muslims are given the broad brush treatment; in other words, as far as many on this forum are concerned, they are evil and hellbent on our destruction.

Yup I agree that the Islamofash are in a minority. I didn't say that Islamofash were in a majority. I dislike the way that Respect are chasing conservative islamic votes personally I don't think that is any way for a party that calls itself socialist to behave.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

True, but it is not just about what Islamist nutters stand for. It is that Muslims as a whole make a very convenient 'outsider' group to target and stoke up fear against. There are all sorts of reasons from the BNP perspective why Pakistani and Bangladeshi Muslims fit the bill much better than, say, Caribbeans or Africans or Sikhs or Chinese.

Agree there I should have made myself more clear.

 

[JimPage]

Providing a socialist alternative seems to be failing though.

Prioriting locals (whatever their colour and creed ) for housing would at least remove one of the bnps main campaigning strategies and leave them exposed as the wankers they are.

in areas like barking, in means maintaining a mainly white area in a multiracial london, which isnt acceptable on any level. why should locals be prioritised, over, say asylum seekers- who have an equal right to live in barking as so called locals

 

[JimPage]

Its fairly obvious to most people that immigration is a major issue. The BNP will try to use the issue to gain new support.The kind of support far right parties have in countries like France and Italy.
I dont think ignoring the issue will do any good. But the issue has to be tackled sensitively.

what do you mean "sensitively". opponents of open borders need to be ruthlessly crushed

 

[KeyboardJockey]

in areas like barking, in means maintaining a mainly white area in a multiracial london, which isnt acceptable on any level. why should locals be prioritised, over, say asylum seekers- who have an equal right to live in barking as so called locals

Not everyone in Barking and Dagenham is white never has been. I didn't say that ALL housing should be sons and daughters there should be space for allocation on a needs basis. What is angering people in b and d is the perception that people who haven't contributed to the country are benefiting from it and the bnp is exploiting that anger. I think that if you lance that boil then it will buy political breathing space. Asylum seekers can still be supported but not in the current manner.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

what do you mean "sensitively". opponents of open borders need to be ruthlessly crushed

Open Borders is as mentalist a philosphy as anything dreamed up by David Icke and the Lizard Lickers.

Pushing the idea of OB is probably one of the greatest mistakes that the left makes as it feeds the bnp and allows them to say to their potential constituents 'look these lefties don't care about you they only care about destroying our country with these others'. I know its bollocks you know its bollocks but it feeds the bnp.

Fair immigration policies are a good thing, being a haven for the oppressed is a good thing as all these can be sold as reasonable. Open borders is not reasonable and would be rejected if put to a democratic vote.

 

[dash_two]

I'm not sure how literally proponents of 'open borders' mean what they say. Do they mean there should really be no limits on who and how many can come to settle here, beyond those imposed by availability of work and price of housing? Like moving house from Bristol to Manchester, say?

Is it to be completely unilateral or something which is to be negotiated in reciprocal arrangements with other countries?

 

[KeyboardJockey]

I'm not sure how literally proponents of 'open borders' mean what they say. Do they mean there should really be no limits on who and how many can come to settle here, beyond those imposed by availability of work and price of housing? Like moving house from Bristol to Manchester, say?

I get the impression the the OB proponents want absolute free movement.

 

[dash_two]

It's a nice idea. Wrong planet though.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

It's a nice idea. Wrong planet though.

Yup. One for planet Hippiefluff not for planet earth.

 

[dash_two]

KeyboardJockey, you mentioned earlier you would like to see a fair immigration system. What do you think that should look be like?

 

[KeyboardJockey]

KeyboardJockey, you mentioned earlier you would like to see a fair immigration system. What do you think that should look be like?

A proper well resourced asylum system with access to FCO information and staff who understand the countries where people are coming from. Honest information about why people are coming to UK.

Prioritising those immigrants with skills the UK needs

An end to the fast tracks for the rich

Better resourced visa application system.

Consistent immigration decisions. At present decision making is highly inconsistent. Published information on what the decision are and the criteria they are made under.

Swift removal of those who overstay visas, make false claims, commit crimes etc while on temporary leave to remain in UK.

Less intrusive procedures for those wishing to join immediate family in UK.

A fair mix of protection for the UK and help for those who need it.