Griffin and BNP strategy

[butchersapron]

Incidentally, before I disagree with you. Have you got your copy of Mayday yet? You should have by now. I haven't got the Dvd btw.

Doh!! New thinking new thinking.

I've seen this line of argument used sooooo many times before I am not sure that it is correct. It is used in a very woolly way, I would like to see proof of this position, and not speculation. Because that is all there is at the minute. It would have to be done far more scientifically for me to accept it so categorically.

There are far far more and other things which happen that affect the BNP vote for the issue mentioned to be seen to have the effect you claim for it. In short, there are far more variables involved which have not been isolated or otherwise contained to allow the claim of straightforward causal effect you identify, there are associational connections that is true, but that should not be enough for a thinking anarchist or Marxist.

Not yet, our postie seems to pile them up and post them in a big lot all at once. DVD went yesterday.

It's at worst partially correct as evidenced by the contunued rise in BNP votes. It stopped nothing expect maybe in one area that they may not have stood on - and they've been doing well in that area anyway.

Mate, i don't wish to be rude - but make a fucking point here. Say what you mean in easy understandable langauge then we, and others, can talk.

 

[nightowl]

Griffin having difficulty putting his point accross in Michigan.

an interesting one i noticed while watching those two

 

[EddyBlack]

A friend of mine has joined the BNP. He started telling me about it and I said, 'but they are racist arn't they?'.

He refused to accept this, telling me about policies that they had such as, leaving the European Union, and stopping the mass immigration that we have.
He explained that they are merely about putting Britain and the British people first.

Whilst these policies are not racist, what are the strongest points that I could argue to him to show that they are in fact racist. Do they have any clearly racist policies or can Nick Griffin be shown to be a racist?

 

[The Black Hand]

Not yet, our postie seems to pile them up and post them in a big lot all at once. DVD went yesterday.

It's at worst partially correct as evidenced by the contunued rise in BNP votes. It stopped nothing expect maybe in one area that they may not have stood on - and they've been doing well in that area anyway...

make a point here. Say what you mean in easy understandable langauge then we, and others, can talk.

I am not convinced that the 'expose them' line has been unsuccesful in holding the BNP vote down. What happens in areas where the 'expose them' line is not tried at all? What happens to their vote then? You have to carefully control for these different influences on outcomes, the possibilities of different influences are always there.

I agree nationally it appears to have little effect, but I would like to know the extent or not of its impact. Also, just because the 'expose them' article maybe on the bbc, and/or local paper, does not mean that people have read it generally or in a particular ward.

Therefore, to account for the BNP going up you would have to argue and show that the 'expose them' line has definately been tried across an entire ward via leafletting, and still the vote went up. Then there is still tremendous difficulties in assuming WHY this is the case, you would have to collect the ward BNP leaflets, look at stories in the national press and on TV for the entire election period, and then make educated guesses.

However, the expressed reasons for a BNP vote are of course the analytical golddust, but even here you would have to think carefully about what was said and the way it was said, because people sometimes do not say exactly what they mean, e.g. they may try to consciously disguise their racism as an 'housing issue', or they can genuinely intend to decieve (eg. deny they voted BNP, but 'from what I gather the reasons are'...)...

Paraphrasing Marx with extras - Historical racism, the media and capitalism weigh like a deadweight upon the brains of the living and the choices they make.

 

[The Black Hand]

I believe I have explained myself clearly, that means I am due a reply. Ta.

 

[glenquagmire]

Anyone notice that Labour won a council by-election last night in Sandwell beating the BNP incumbent on a massive swing?

The clock's counting to the first numpty who claims there is no difference between the Labour Party and the BNP.

 

[TremulousTetra]

A friend of mine has joined the BNP. He started telling me about it and I said, 'but they are racist arn't they?'.

He refused to accept this, telling me about policies that they had such as, leaving the European Union, and stopping the mass immigration that we have.
He explained that they are merely about putting Britain and the British people first.

Whilst these policies are not racist, what are the strongest points that I could argue to him to show that they are in fact racist. Do they have any clearly racist policies or can Nick Griffin be shown to be a racist?

Butchers

I don't know this guy from somebody down the street, but I am guessing he isn't a revolutionary. So how would you answer him? I am seriously interested.

 

[The Black Hand]

Anyone notice that Labour won a council by-election last night in Sandwell beating the BNP incumbent on a massive swing?

The clock's counting to the first numpty who claims there is no difference between the Labour Party and the BNP.

Well that is good news... I would like to know why though before I call it very good news...

I agree with you on point 2 - fucking ultra leftists...

 

[The Black Hand]

Here is some analysis and the result;

http://www.voiceofreason.org.uk/blog/?p=232

 

[JimPage]

Here is some analysis and the result;

http://www.voiceofreason.org.uk/blog/?p=232

Attica

since when did you start using known searchlight narks like VOR for Analysis?
The analysis put out by VOR/Lancaster UAF is in most parts , simply wrong. Every single BNP result,to them,can be spun into a bad one- they even managed to find light at the end of thetunnel after the BNP polled 20% in Shepshed by election and 32% in South Derbyshire the other month

VOR is now becoming a liability to antifascism

 

[The Black Hand]

Attica

since when did you start using known searchlight narks like VOR for Analysis?
The analysis put out by VOR/Lancaster UAF is in most parts , simply wrong. Every single BNP result,to them,can be spun into a bad one- they even managed to find light at the end of thetunnel after the BNP polled 20% in Shepshed by election and 32% in South Derbyshire the other month

VOR is now becoming a liability to antifascism

I said 'here is some analysis'. I put the link up to stimulate debate, it was NOT a sign of my adoption of such analysis, 'some' is a neutral descriptive word...

I suggest you read an article in Mayday magazine called "Autonomous anti fascism" because I think more like that than anything else.
Cheers.

 

[TremulousTetra]

He explained that they are merely about putting Britain and the British people first.

if gb peeps 1st, who 2nd, ask him. also gb muslims 1st too? who is gb peeps.

 

[The Black Hand]

There is a good anti fascist letter in the Northern Echo - published yesterday;

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/features/letters/display.var.1890992.0.bnp.php

 

[Larry O'Hara]

There is a good anti fascist letter in the Northern Echo - published yesterday;

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/features/letters/display.var.1890992.0.bnp.php

Fair enough--although of course the same rag chose not to publish one I sent critiquing Griffin's Jewish policy...

 

[The Black Hand]

Fair enough--although of course the same rag chose not to publish one I sent critiquing Griffin's Jewish policy...

It's a very localised paper... your piece sounds too good for them... I think the editor will have thought 'that's too much info'.

 

[The Black Hand]

More BNP expulsions...!! WTF is Griffin playing at?

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2007/12/387411.html?c=on#c185915

 

[Larry O'Hara]

It's a very localised paper... your piece sounds too good for them... I think the editor will have thought 'that's too much info'.

you read it? I am impressed...

 

[Larry O'Hara]

More BNP expulsions...!! WTF is Griffin playing at?

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2007/12/387411.html?c=on#c185915

or WTF is SB asset Sadie Graham playing at...

 

[The Black Hand]

you read it? I am impressed...

Educated guesstimate

 

[The Black Hand]

Attica

since when did you start using known searchlight narks like VOR for Analysis?
The analysis put out by VOR/Lancaster UAF is in most parts , simply wrong. Every single BNP result,to them,can be spun into a bad one- they even managed to find light at the end of thetunnel after the BNP polled 20% in Shepshed by election and 32% in South Derbyshire the other month

VOR is now becoming a liability to antifascism

I have had a chance to have a quick look at the results there, and the far right vote appears to have split quite evenly between Labour and the Tories... Of course I am aware I need far more information about the social characteristics of the ward and info about how the election was fought...

 

[The Black Hand]

Here is another totally pitiful BNP result;

Election Results: Thursday 13th December 2007.

Harrow LBC, Canons

Con 1208 (56.7; -11.1), Lab 389 (18.3; -0.1), LD Anne Diamond 296 (13.9; +0.1), Ind 182 (8.5; +8.5), BNP 56 (2.6; +2.6).

Majority 819. Turnout 24.0%. Con hold. Last fought 2006.

 

[butchersapron]

Cheers to jim for figures

Yesterdays results:

Castle Point Council St Mary’s Ward
Thursday 20th December 2007
(2 seats)
(Con) 509
(Lab) 480
(Con) 461
(Lab) 456
(BNP) 253
(BNP) 234

BNP Percentage: 20.4%

Shepshed Town Council East Ward
Thursday 20th December 2007
(2 seats)
(Lab) 275
(Lab) 259
(Lib-Dem) 193
(Con) 187
(BNP) 183
(BNP) 173
(Lib-Dem) 155

BNP Percentage: 22.1%

 

[audiotech]

Some analysis of recent bye-elections.

During November & December there were 33 byelections to "principal area" local authorities (ie excluding parish councils)

The BNP fought 7

UKIP fought 8

Greens fought 9

The BNP held one out of the 33 - and lost it! The Greens previously held one out of the 33 - and held it at the byelection!

In descending order BNP performance was:

20% (distorted by double vacancy) - located in "white flight Essex"

19% - down from 36% in May, and a seat they held !!!!

13.6% and 13.6% - in E and W Midlands (odd coincidence, identical percentages)

8.9% - E Midlands

4.9% - North Wales

2.6% - Harrow

 

[durruti02]

http://www. bnp. org.uk/2008/01/21/100000-leaflets-250-activists-the-bnp%e2%80%99s-biggest-ever-push-in-london/

broken link to the 'big push' LOL .. worrying but to get 250 people they had to bus em in from all over the country ..

 

[audiotech]

http://www. bnp. org.uk/2008/01/21/100000-leaflets-250-activists-the-bnp%e2%80%99s-biggest-ever-push-in-london/

broken link to the 'big push' LOL .. worrying but to get 250 people they had to bus em in from all over the country ..

An overestimate of course.

About 110 to 150 turned up.

 

[The Black Hand]

An overestimate of course.

About 110 to 150 turned up.

Searchlight say 70 turned up Also here is Searchlight on the latest accounts from the BNP;
"Membership is stated as 6,281, down from the 6,502 shown in the 2005 accounts and a far cry from the 10,000 figure currently being bandied around by the BNP leadership. At the time of the BNP leadership election the voting figures indicated that the party had 8,604 members but this was widely thought to be an exaggeration."

Anybody got any comments?

 

[JHE]

I expect they lost quite a few members in the recent spat-split-expulsions thingy. (Whether that is reflected in the 'accounts' I don't know.)

 

[durruti02]

Searchlight say 70 turned up Also here is Searchlight on the latest accounts from the BNP;
"Membership is stated as 6,281, down from the 6,502 shown in the 2005 accounts and a far cry from the 10,000 figure currently being bandied around by the BNP leadership. At the time of the BNP leadership election the voting figures indicated that the party had 8,604 members but this was widely thought to be an exaggeration."

Anybody got any comments?

er that you believe searchlight?!

( in the pics there are not that many mind )

 

[audiotech]

Membership was about 7,000. Probably down to around 6,500 now.

 

[audiotech]

Searchlight say 70 turned up

That photo does indicate around 70.