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Griffin and BNP strategy

durruti02 said:
shepshed was industrial .. clothing and coal mines .. but it is now a dormitory town for leicster ..

A) does that make the bnp vote middle class? or is it the w/c rump who have voted that way .. i do not know and nor do you attica!:D

B) we would need a proper breakdown ..

C) in terms of the far left influence i suspect even there, people would have a perception of the far left as being the supportters of 'immmigrants and muslims' not of 'them' ..

A) I think it is a bit of both, but you are right, I do not know.

B) I have been arguing for such organised long term research for a while now.

C) Perhaps so - but not necessarily. I suspect that people are more sophisticated than that and do not see this imaginary far left. I suspect it is racist nationalism feeding this not very politicised protest vote. But as you say - we need more research and meetings beyond anybodies 'comfort zones'. That includes you, me, Larry, other urbanites and all the other so called 'anti fascists'.
 
MC5 said:
The tories will be hoping to shore up some support with their recent statements.

Not in crisis? My initial point was that the BNP appears to be in crisis? Are they not?

I've been following these events for decades Jim and the point about "collaburators" [sic] ? :D is just, well daft.

The recent vote was after both the tories and labour adopting a far right position on migration - and the effect, so far, seems to have been minimal on their vote.

As to a crisis in the BNP- well dunno about that. Would not discount it- but whenevr i hear "BNP in crisis" from Searchlight/Lancaster UAF and simialr beasts you can normally disount this.

Also- the BNP Leadership seems not to tolerate failure. If a local leader fails to succeed- they arent kept on out of loyalty- they are replaced. A lesson the left could learn
 
JimPage said:
As to a crisis in the BNP- well dunno about that. Would not discount it- but whenevr i hear "BNP in crisis" from Searchlight/Lancaster UAF and simialr beasts you can normally disount this.

I'm not discounting the 'BNP crisis' just yet Jim.

More info.

True-blue Horsham in West Sussex - DC Holbrook ward result:

Con 554 40.35
LibDem 602 43.85
Lab 54 3.93
BNP 163 11.87

Total 1373
 
Geoff kerr-morg said:
Sorry if this has already been posted from Searchlight

http://www.stopthebnp.org.uk/PDFdownload/BNPcrisis_Oct2007.pdf

So you should be--the usual mix of raw sewage & BS from that source. For exanple, Searchlight now draw reference to the Lecomber murder plot--but they did their best to ensure this was a 'non-story' in the English media, and have never to this day called for Lecomber's arrest have they?

For years the Searchlight line was the NF then BNP were about to unleash armed struggle--now they are having unprecedented (for fascists) electoral success, the new line is they are about to disintegrate, daily. Amusing, were the subject matter not so important. No doubt had Searchlight been around in Germany 1933 their 29/1/33 'NSDAP in Crisis' headline would have screamed 'Nazis in crisis as followers desert sad Fuhrer'. Get a life--or even better, a brain.

So, in future don't apologise for linking to Searchlight garbage--just don't do it. Period.
 
Prince Rhyus said:

shouldn't that be amusing reading? I presume you have never read my detailed alternative view of the careers of Ray Hill (eg Lobster/Searchlight for Beginners) Collins (Notes From the Borderland issue 2), Sykes (Notes From the Borderland issue 6). If/when you have, you might still find that pap interesting--but for different reasons. And not forgetting Tim Hepple/Matthews either of course.
 
Some people may like having the last word--I don't, necessarily. The 2 posters above me gave links to Searchlight disinformation, on important matters: crisis (or otherwise) in the BNP, and the tall tales told by some 'reformed' fascists in Searchlight's orbit. Without questionong at all the sincerity and motives of those two posters, I really would be interested in some discussion on the rights/wrongs of these matters. Or failing that, at the very least an acknowledgement by the posters that, yes, there is an alternative point of view concerning these stories that may merit some examination, at least. Surely, on an internet discussion forum, that is a reasonable request on my part? I am well aware that Searchlight scum do not believe in debate, or allow it in their magazine--but I would hesitate before assuming such bad faith on the part of the above two posters I am referring to. If disinformation is peddled unchallemged, that only ensures repetition--Searchlight can get away with such falsehoods as they do precisely because people often uncritically see them as a 'neutral' information source. However, given their aspirations are monopolistic, surely even the most blinkered Last Century Leftist can understand that this whole area of fascism/anti-fascism/the media/the secret state, is one in which the secret state itself, in various dactions, has its own agendas. How much easier to pursue them, including the creation of false ;legends' for state assets, if the conversion stories of same are never subject to scrutiny, of the sort I have attempted in the articles mentioned above. Equally, as my seemingly flippant remark above about 'NSDAP in Crisis' alludes to, constantly crying wolf & underestimating the fascist enemy in fact aids fascists, because it divertd attention from examining and then targetting, their actual strengths & weaknesses. All very obvious really, and tedious to have to keep repeating such. But, to paraphrase Wellington, if the secret state & their sewage outlets keep coming on in the same old way, they need to be opposed in the same old way, at least. And finally, to those naive enough to sign up the the Searchlight 'shut down Redwatch' campaign, there is ample evidence in the public domain/online--including the entire Notes From the Borderland issue 2 article concerning Yorkshire--that Searchlight, including Lowles as well as Gable, and Searchlight/SB informant Tony White--are implicated in Redwatch Mark 2 as they were in Redwatch Mark 1. If you do not learn from history, then as Marx might have said, you are condemned to facilitate its repetition.
 
MC5 said:
You appear to have had the last three words. I note all in code. :rolleyes:

What you mean is, I have raised questions outside your knowledge-base, so you think making a slightly sarky remark is an acceptable reply. Were this a croquet club, maybe appropriate, but its not. Tell me, would I be right in thinking you are some kind of socialist? If so, are not questions pertaining to fascism/anti-fascism & the state of interest to you? Furthermore, was it the other posters, or me, who uncritically linked to Searchlight propaganda? Or are you not bothered whether you regurgitate/condone disinformation in this area?

It is ludicrous I have to ask these questions, but somebody should.
 
Make a substantive reply MC5 - challenge what larry said - his sources, his interpretation - something. He's entirely right. Maybe this is the time and place to have that debate out in the open again given that there's a fair few new posters who take the searchlight line at face value?
 
Couldn't help yourself butchers could you? :rolleyes:

I can see perfectly well thankyou that there's nothing substantive to reply to - end of.
 
MC5 said:
I can see perfectly well thankyou that there's nothing substantive to reply to - end of.

utterly pathetic--and music to the ears of those like Searchlight who ply their trade by peddling disinformation. As stated, acceptable for a naive liberal, but hardly from a socialist--still less a 'revolutionary' one. I commend butcher's apron for seeing there are important issues here, but it is sad that MC5 & the other two have nothing to contribute. I have chosen my words carefully--I would welcome genuine debate. Shows the perils of the internet and its limitations I suppose....
 
Larry, my subscription to Lobster ran out a few years ago. I'm tempted to subscribe to NFB now. :D

I see there's no link anymore to your publication on the LUAF blog though? :confused:
 
MC5 said:
Larry, my subscription to Lobster ran out a few years ago. I'm tempted to subscribe to NFB now. :D

I see there's no link anymore to your publication on the LUAF blog though? :confused:

we do a good deal on back issues....

Seriously, the link is still there but so far down you can hardly see it...And haven't updated the Lecomber saga. Very sad.
 
BNP result from Thursday. Lancaster UAF desperately trying to persuade SWPers that "one swallow doesnt make a summer" , and that this result is a one off in a general pattern of BNP Decline and nothing much to worry about.

This is a first time vote for them in the ward in an area where they are not yet formally organised.

South Derbyshire D.C. Church Gresley ward result:
Thursday October 18th

Lab 639
BNP 516 (35.4%)
Con 304
 
JimPage said:
BNP result from Thursday. Lancaster UAF desperately trying to persuade SWPers that "one swallow doesnt make a summer" , and that this result is a one off in a general pattern of BNP Decline and nothing much to worry about.

This is a first time vote for them in the ward in an area where they are not yet formally organised.

South Derbyshire D.C. Church Gresley ward result:
Thursday October 18th

Lab 639
BNP 516 (35.4%)
Con 304

that is one big vote .. :(

ex mining area .. and would have been NUM (?? ) i believe as was all Derbyshire

p.s. keep it up the info service jim .. v.usefull :)
 
Fuck - bad result that. I dunno how far Ilkeston is - but our old friend Ian Stuart Donaldson and his goons used to pollute that area....

As for Derbyshire and NUM, yes it was. The problem is that the old left hasn't given birth to a new left yet. The media is giving the far right the propaganda to do well though. How far was the REd White and blue fest from this area? What concentrations and effort did they put into that result? If it is a lot then they won't be able to repeat that vote at an election where they always overstretch themselves...
 
Attica said:
Fuck - bad result that. I dunno how far Ilkeston is - but our old friend Ian Stuart Donaldson and his goons used to pollute that area....

As for Derbyshire and NUM, yes it was. The problem is that the old left hasn't given birth to a new left yet. The media is giving the far right the propaganda to do well though. How far was the REd White and blue fest from this area? What concentrations and effort did they put into that result? If it is a lot then they won't be able to repeat that vote at an election where they always overstretch themselves
...

reading the reports on the BNP Website the ward was fully canvassed- and yes they seemed to get a bit of help from their branch in NW Leicestershire, where they have 2 councillors. What annoys me is if Respect can get elected in Bolsover, a similar ex mining area, where on earth are the left in the area- why arent they standing candidates in areas like this?
 
JimPage said:
reading the reports on the BNP Website the ward was fully canvassed- and yes they seemed to get a bit of help from their branch in NW Leicestershire, where they have 2 councillors. What annoys me is if Respect can get elected in Bolsover, a similar ex mining area, where on earth are the left in the area- why arent they standing candidates in areas like this?

My own experience tells me they are getting old and ever shrinking in terms of personnel, ideas, and motivation. Saying that, I am currently connecting quite well up north with these people, and things may get moving again.

Durutti, as for Sunderland on top of the other reasons for BNP failure I have just learned of the GMB putting finance and staff into Sunderland some years ago (2003) and a usually reliable source said they got 'the BNP on the run'. Now, I will be checking this out in detail and further, when I meet the guy in mid November.
 
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