Griffin and BNP strategy

[audiotech]

Results (percentages in brackets):

Goodshaw (Rossendale)

Lab 632 (59.40)
Con 300 (28.20)
LibDem 52 (4.89)
BNP 80 (7.52)

Total 1064

Whitewell (Rossendale)

Lab 399 (31.97)
Con 152 (12.18)
LibDem 606 (48.56)
BNP 91 (7.29)

Total 1248

Irwell (Rossendale)

Lab 379 (37.16)
Con 312 (30.59)
LibDem 48 (4.71)
BNP 281 (27.55)

Total 1020

Liverpool Warbreck

Lab 1796 (54.99)
Con 40 (1.22)
LibDem 1024 (31.35)
BNP 146 (4.47)
Ind 131 (4.01)
Green 45 (1.38)
LLCP 32 (0.98)
UKIP 52 (1.59)

Total 3266

Conwy Mochdre

Lab 303 (45.70)
Con 159 (23.98)
BNP 35 (5.28)
Plaid 166 (25.04)

Total 663

 

[Gmart]

If the BNP dropped their ridiculous race laws, then they could take advantage of the situation the country is in. A community base maybe?

People are generally patriotic at a basic level, so maybe we should be thankful that they are so stupid as to not notice this.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Real anti fascist analysis would identify just what it is about the wards that give them approx 27% of the vote, and why they get 3-8% in others. What exists at present is inadequate IMHO. I would like to see ABCDE class breakdowns of wards, and some information about house prices in such analysis, and perhaps some cultural history of the wards too. That sort of analysis could help anti fascists in strategic and tactical campaigns.

At the minute all there seems to be is well meaning angst about an undefined 'political vacuum'.

So, why don't you do this, instead of advocating others do so?

 

[The Black Hand]

So, why don't you do this, instead of advocating others do so?

I do not have to do everything I cannot do it on my own anyway, it is simply too big a task. But this is something the movement SHOULD have been doing, those concerned should be having a series of mini conferences/ 'research seminars' (2 or 3 a year) where such things can be planned, supported and disseminated.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

I do not have to do everything.

I would welcome you doing anything....

 

[Random]

But this is something the movement SHOULD have been doing, those concerned should be having a series of mini conferences/ 'research seminars' (2 or 3 a year) where such things can be planned, supported and disseminated.

Yes!!1! More conferences and seminars! Funny that you, an academic, should keep on banging on about them....

 

[The Black Hand]

I would welcome you doing anything....

You really have not got a clue Larry.

 

[The Black Hand]

Yes!!1! More conferences and seminars! Funny that you, an academic, should keep on banging on about them....

I am not an academic

Either you are serious about your politics or you are not. I take it you are not.

Pro working class research and ideas do not develop by themselves, you do have to WORK at it. The information is out there, is collectable, could improve practice, and meetings are one way to build the divided and sectarian anti fascist 'movement' in britain. OR are you happy with it's shit state and want the status quo to continue? AS Marx said, the point is to change it.

It's only because of the relative low levels of politicisation in the working class in Britain that you are able to get away with saying that Random. If it was Italy you would have been laughed at.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

You really have not got a clue Larry.

no, I've only been active in this field for 30 years.

 

[urbanrevolt]

no, I've only been active in this field for 30 years.

doesn't necessarily mean you learn something though unfortunately- many people have been active for many years without necessarily learning.

No comment at all on Larry, though, whom I don't know- just a riposte to his riposte

 

[Larry O'Hara]

doesn't necessarily mean you learn something though unfortunately- many people have been active for many years without necessarily learning.

No comment at all on Larry, though, whom I don't know- just a riposte to his riposte

Your first para is fair enough--and as for the second: perhaps if you obtain my PhD (which has so far not been published) 'Creating Political Soldiers: the NF 1986-90' (London University 2001) you will see that, before it was commonplace, I had pinpointed what was novel/important/efficacious about BNP strategy: something Attica refuses to accept, and even criticises me for it not being published. I was not wise after the event about the BNP, but before/during, while the dominant perspective accused them of going nowhere, or indeed about to split asunder (a line still peddled daily on the Lancaster UAF site for example)

 

[The Black Hand]

no, I've only been active in this field for 30 years.

So inneffective?

 

[The Black Hand]

Your first para is fair enough--and as for the second: perhaps if you obtain my PhD (which has so far not been published) 'Creating Political Soldiers: the NF 1986-90' (London University 2001) you will see that, before it was commonplace, I had pinpointed what was novel/important/efficacious about BNP strategy: something Attica refuses to accept, and even criticises me for it not being published. I was not wise after the event about the BNP, but before/during, while the dominant perspective accused them of going nowhere, or indeed about to split asunder (a line still peddled daily on the Lancaster UAF site for example)

What's the point of ideas if you cannot share them Larry?

I critisised you for not rewriting it SO it could be published. I offered to help pass it onto sympathetic publishers in a non sectarian way and you refused to rewrite it!! How bizarre how bizarre. And you call yourself an anti-fascist!!

PLEASE - forget this pointless wittering. Rewrite it. Pass me that file so I can have a look at it and send it on with an apposite recommendation. Or are you going to cry into your beer for another 6 years?

 

[Larry O'Hara]

What's the point of ideas if you cannot share them Larry?

I critisised you for not rewriting it SO it could be published. I offered to help pass it onto sympathetic publishers in a non sectarian way and you refused to rewrite it!! How bizarre how bizarre. And you call yourself an anti-fascist!!

Rubbish

PLEASE - forget this pointless wittering. Rewrite it. Pass me that file so I can have a look at it and send it on with an apposite recommendation. Or are you going to cry into your beer for another 6 years?

No I am not--I have written other stuff & will do. The idea that you, who publish nothing, can 'advise' others on same is pathetic. And you are too stupid to realise the point is not to rewrite it for publication (already done), but Searchlight scum preventing it getting published. In which case 'rewriting' further is a waste of time.-

 

[Larry O'Hara]

So inneffective?

really? I'll let others who know about this topic judge that, thank you.

 

[The Black Hand]

No I am not--I have written other stuff & will do. The idea that you, who publish nothing, can 'advise' others on same is pathetic. And you are too stupid to realise the point is not to rewrite it for publication (already done), but Searchlight scum preventing it getting published. In which case 'rewriting' further is a waste of time.-

I had an article published in a serious refereed journal (not a self published glee magazine) and I do other stuff too.

Sorry Larry, that's just not true. (I'll send details in PM).

A HA!! THat's the FIRST time you have said you have rewritten it for publication. We had a debate not so very long ago about the very same point and you failed to mention that then. I do know of your 'problems' with Searchlight but Quelle surprise.

PLEASE - send me it so I can have a look and I'll pass it onto a sympathetic publisher.

 

[The Black Hand]

really? I'll let others who know about this topic judge that, thank you.

There was a question mark.

You are behaving like an aged professor from an old university who blusters when he is challenged by a dynamic student

 

[The Black Hand]

Results (percentages in brackets):

Goodshaw (Rossendale)

Lab 632 (59.40)
Con 300 (28.20)
LibDem 52 (4.89)
BNP 80 (7.52)

Total 1064

Whitewell (Rossendale)

Lab 399 (31.97)
Con 152 (12.18)
LibDem 606 (48.56)
BNP 91 (7.29)

Total 1248

Irwell (Rossendale)

Lab 379 (37.16)
Con 312 (30.59)
LibDem 48 (4.71)
BNP 281 (27.55)

Total 1020

Liverpool Warbreck

Lab 1796 (54.99)
Con 40 (1.22)
LibDem 1024 (31.35)
BNP 146 (4.47)
Ind 131 (4.01)
Green 45 (1.38)
LLCP 32 (0.98)
UKIP 52 (1.59)

Total 3266

Conwy Mochdre

Lab 303 (45.70)
Con 159 (23.98)
BNP 35 (5.28)
Plaid 166 (25.04)

Total 663

Just a quick bit of maths. If you take the exceptional result out of these 5 results, and see the remaining 4 as more typical results you get some rather poor BNP figures for a 'growing party'. The average % is only 6.14% out of people on the electoral register in those 4 more typical seats.

They get a total vote of 352 out of 6241 on the electoral register in those 4 wards. That is the performance of a party completely on the margins whose 'bigger' votes are the exception rather than the norm.

 

[audiotech]

Just a quick bit of maths. If you take the exceptional result out of these 5 results, and see the remaining 4 as more typical results you get some rather poor BNP figures for a 'growing party'. The average % is only 6.14% out of people on the electoral register in those 4 more typical seats.

They get a total vote of 352 out of 6241 on the electoral register in those 4 wards. That is the performance of a party completely on the margins whose 'bigger' votes are the exception rather than the norm.

To add to their woes, a number of their leading cadre have decided to quit recently.

 

[The Black Hand]

In post 854 (page 35) I asked you directly whether you had rewritten it. You didn't answer.

Here (P 36) you say you are 'not going to waste your time rewriting it'.

You don't fucking listen do you? I have been approached by one publisher, who then pulled out because of Searchlight scum pressure, and 4 others the scum intervened in too. I am not going to waste my time 'rewriting' something for publication until I know it will be published. End of.

Then you said (P. 37) "And you are too stupid to realise the point is not to rewrite it for publication (already done), but Searchlight scum preventing it getting published. In which case 'rewriting' further is a waste of time."

IT IS YOU who are contradictory and misleading - why Larry? It is not to try and score cheap political points is it? But anyway, send me the rewritten file if you want, I will still pass it on.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

In post 854 (page 35) I asked you directly whether you had rewritten it. You didn't answer.

Here (P 36) you say you are 'not going to waste your time rewriting it'.



Then you said (P. 37) "And you are too stupid to realise the point is not to rewrite it for publication (already done), but Searchlight scum preventing it getting published. In which case 'rewriting' further is a waste of time."

IT IS YOU who are contradictory and misleading - why Larry? It is not to try and score cheap political points is it? But anyway, send me the rewritten file if you want, I will still pass it on.

Let me get this right--you are calling me contradictory and misleading.

I think at this point, I shall adjourn this futile non-debate, save to say

1) I have important (publishing-related ) tasks to do.

2) You wouldn't be the same Attica who claimed to have read a key Nick Griffin article in Identity that you hadn't, and haven't still, would you??

 

[The Black Hand]

Larry pull your pants up.

I never claimed to have read that article in Identity. Anyway it is all explained above and any objective and neutral reading would support me The self referential glee club you wonks operate in is pathetic.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Larry pull your pants up.

I never claimed to have read that article in Identity.

You did, but now lie about it--fair enough.

The self referential glee club you wonks operate in is pathetic.

glee club?

wonks?

self-referential?

Keep taking the medication...

 

[The Black Hand]

We have already done the evidence debate on this thread. I didn't say that. You for some reason continue to maintain I did BUT you have no evidence and that is normally necessary so it is you who needs the medication.

 

[butchersapron]

Both/everyone - we've got a a good thread here, some useful ideas, some good competing analysis and some stats that we're adding to as we go on. Let's keep it about that if we can eh? Some interesting things coming up, let's concentrate on them please.

(Even though it's attica's fault )

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Both/everyone - we've got a a good thread here, some useful ideas, some good competing analysis and some stats that we're adding to as we go on. Let's keep it about that if we can eh? Some interesting things coming up, let's concentrate on them please.

(Even though it's attica's fault )

I agree--I suppose it is my Irish ancestry that causes me to respond to twaddle when I should ignore it.

 

[The Black Hand]

Yes!!1! More conferences and seminars! Funny that you, an academic, should keep on banging on about them....

Just a point - there are NO conferences or seminars where the class struggle anarchist movement tries to develop its politics beyond the sect.

 

[The Black Hand]

I agree--I suppose it is my Irish ancestry that causes me to respond to twaddle when I should ignore it.

Or you are being a ____?

 

[durruti02]

Both/everyone - we've got a a good thread here, some useful ideas, some good competing analysis and some stats that we're adding to as we go on. Let's keep it about that if we can eh? Some interesting things coming up, let's concentrate on them please.

(Even though it's attica's fault )

ditto

 

[The Black Hand]

Lets keep it nice and clean without ad hominem attacks then shall we.