Griffin and BNP strategy

[scott_forester]

Anybody got any comments?

I'll probably get shouted at, but I wish the left wing media would stop bigging the BNP up as a threat to our way of life. It just encourages people to think they are a legitimate protest vote for shock affect. Whenever they put anyone in front of the camera who isn't Nick Griffin they look like a bunch of fuckwits. I still fondly remember a BNP mayoral candidate saying he could scrap the congestion charges on BBC Radio London if we got rid of all 'illegals'. The biggest 4th party IIRC is the Greens who get zero coverage which lets the BNP keep pretending they are on the verge of a breakthrough, rather than a breakdown.

 

[militant atheist]

I know what you mean Scott - but what's the alternative? If we dismiss and ignore them, that to my mind, is even more dangerous. The BNP are good at offering simple and 'plausable' solutions to real problems of resource allocation and identity. There is a potentially significant market for their ideas, all ably assisted by their 'recruiting sargeant' (Griffin's words) the tabloid press.

 

[scott_forester]

I know what you mean Scott - but what's the alternative? If we dismiss and ignore them, that to my mind, is even more dangerous. The BNP are good at offering simple and 'plausable' solutions to real problems of resource allocation and identity. There is a potentially significant market for their ideas, all ably assisted by their 'recruiting sargeant' (Griffin's words) the tabloid press.

I would ignore them, maybe campaign against them where they stand.

 

[The Black Hand]

I'll probably get shouted at, but I wish the left wing media would stop bigging the BNP up as a threat to our way of life. It just encourages people to think they are a legitimate protest vote for shock affect. Whenever they put anyone in front of the camera who isn't Nick Griffin they look like a bunch of fuckwits. I still fondly remember a BNP mayoral candidate saying he could scrap the congestion charges on BBC Radio London if we got rid of all 'illegals'. The biggest 4th party IIRC is the Greens who get zero coverage which lets the BNP keep pretending they are on the verge of a breakthrough, rather than a breakdown.

Very sensible Scott.

 

[The Black Hand]

er that you believe searchlight?!

( in the pics there are not that many mind )

I am bigger than that I post up stuff which is relevant to debate (as I have said many times before) it is NOT an indication of support for those ideas...

 

[crossbow]

anti bnp waller's

If those anti-bnp moaners were to allow the bnp to have some dialog then maybe the air could be cleared once and for all, there must be thousands of British people sick to the back teeth of listening to theses anti's moaning on about the fashist bnp, well then why is it that us normal Brits can't hear for ourselves and make our own decisions as to whether WE like them or hate them! What are these ANTI's afraid of?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

no thanks, none today

 

[The Black Hand]

no thanks, none today

Well done mod.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

I'll probably get shouted at, but I wish the left wing media would stop bigging the BNP up as a threat to our way of life. It just encourages people to think they are a legitimate protest vote for shock affect. Whenever they put anyone in front of the camera who isn't Nick Griffin they look like a bunch of fuckwits. I still fondly remember a BNP mayoral candidate saying he could scrap the congestion charges on BBC Radio London if we got rid of all 'illegals'. The biggest 4th party IIRC is the Greens who get zero coverage which lets the BNP keep pretending they are on the verge of a breakthrough, rather than a breakdown.

I agree that coverage of the nazis is disproportionate. I dont think it is just the left media that are guilty of it. There is a fetish for fascism across the media, including at the BBC. They will broadcast a council bye-election result concerning the nazis and never ever one concerning a mainstream party or The Greens as you rightly say.

As a member of The Green Party I have asked the BBC if they dont cover us because we are not racist enough. Truth is that in green issues DA gets coverage, substantial debate does not.

Anyway, witting or unwitting promotion of the fascist agenda is demonstrated in this disturbing anecdote wot I heard from a very reliable source:

In Bognor Regis there was a single fascist candidate standing in 1 ward at the local elections. The local rag devoted the front page and 3 inside pages to the issue. This included a full re-print of the "where we stand" bile from their website

Crossbow: What most people are afraid of with the BNP is a lying fascist organisation that is disproportionately populated with criminals and whose elected representives are famous for their uselessness. They are fearful of the demonstrated evidence that where BNP activity goes up, so does violence.

I have questioned "no platform" before now on U75 and the response persuaded me (for now at least) that it is a regretable but wise policy in the circumstances.

 

[bittersweet42]

I agree that coverage of the nazis is disproportionate. I dont think it is just the left media that are guilty of it. There is a fetish for fascism across the media, including at the BBC. They will broadcast a council bye-election result concerning the nazis and never ever one concerning a mainstream party or The Greens as you rightly say.

As a member of The Green Party I have asked the BBC if they dont cover us because we are not racist enough. Truth is that in green issues DA gets coverage, substantial debate does not.

Anyway, witting or unwitting promotion of the fascist agenda is demonstrated in this disturbing anecdote wot I heard from a very reliable source:

In Bognor Regis there was a single fascist candidate standing in 1 ward at the local elections. The local rag devoted the front page and 3 inside pages to the issue. This included a full re-print of the "where we stand" bile from their website

Crossbow: What most people are afraid of with the BNP is a lying fascist organisation that is disproportionately populated with criminals and whose elected representives are famous for their uselessness. They are fearful of the demonstrated evidence that where BNP activity goes up, so does violence.

I have questioned "no platform" before now on U75 and the response persuaded me (for now at least) that it is a regretable but wise policy in the circumstances.

do not all tv and radio and newpapers just write say and do what they think is right for the people to here. you say people think the bnp is populated with criminals ect, I personally feel that all goverment bodys are full of a variety of complete and utter liars, cheats ect. this world has opened up a lot in the media we have seen all sorts from men of the cloth praying on children to politicians committing adultery as I said it a hard one to know who to beleive in this day and age. The world is messed up not just britain and will it ever be cleansed of the evil that walks it. (mmm well I dont think so).

 

[nino_savatte]

I think we have another one here. ^^

 

[The Black Hand]

I think we have another one here. ^^

You could well be right Nino.

 

[co-op]

I'll probably get shouted at, but I wish the left wing media would stop bigging the BNP up as a threat to our way of life. It just encourages people to think they are a legitimate protest vote for shock affect. Whenever they put anyone in front of the camera who isn't Nick Griffin they look like a bunch of fuckwits. I still fondly remember a BNP mayoral candidate saying he could scrap the congestion charges on BBC Radio London if we got rid of all 'illegals'. The biggest 4th party IIRC is the Greens who get zero coverage which lets the BNP keep pretending they are on the verge of a breakthrough, rather than a breakdown.

I've got some sympathy with this p.o.v, I don't see fascism as an active threat at the moment in the UK.

But it bubbles away - you say the Greens are the 4th biggest party, but in the last mayoral election here in London they were beaten into 5th place by the BNP on first preference votes, a really depressing fact for me.

In fact - even if you aren't fussed by the elections except to hate the BNP, OR if you are a Boris or Ken supporter, this is a good reason to vote green on your first preference for Mayor in London. It's pretty embarassing to have a shower like the BNP beating the Green Party in a supposed 'World City'...

Moreover, the BNP missed out on picking up a 'list' seat in the GLA (ie one of the seats allocated by PR) by a whisker last time round (they got 4.71% - the threshold is 5%). Just by turning out and voting ( - for someone else obviously! -) you reduce their percentage vote in the list.

 

[butchersapron]

I'll probably get shouted at, but I wish the left wing media would stop bigging the BNP up as a threat to our way of life. It just encourages people to think they are a legitimate protest vote for shock affect. Whenever they put anyone in front of the camera who isn't Nick Griffin they look like a bunch of fuckwits. I still fondly remember a BNP mayoral candidate saying he could scrap the congestion charges on BBC Radio London if we got rid of all 'illegals'. The biggest 4th party IIRC is the Greens who get zero coverage which lets the BNP keep pretending they are on the verge of a breakthrough, rather than a breakdown.

What left-wing media scott?

 

[Joe Reilly]

They are fearful of the demonstrated evidence that where BNP activity goes up, so does violence.

Oh yeah, what 'demonstrated evidence' is this then?

 

[The Black Hand]

Oh yeah, what 'demonstrated evidence' is this then?

There's plenty around Joe.

 

[LLETSA]

There's plenty around Joe.

One minute you say they're no threat, the next they're preparing for Kristallnacht.

 

[Joe Reilly]

One minute you say they're no threat, the next they're preparing for Kristallnacht.

I know. 'General' Attica all over. Routinely and falsely accuses others of hyper-ventilating over BNP potential in working class areas and then gets a hard on when when one of their stalls is kicked over in Barnsley. Go figure.

 

[Joe Reilly]

There's plenty around Joe.

Go on then.Your the fucking academic you keep telling everybody. Produce some stats.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

For one thing the links to C18 might just have been a bad dream. But I fear not.

The below is just members and doesnt account for violence and intimidation committed by the far greater numbers of people who are sympathetic to them and inspired by their occasional successes.

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/BNP_a_party_of_convictions

 

[Joe Reilly]

For one thing the links to C18 might just have been a bad dream. But I fear not.

The links between 'C18' and who?

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

The links between 'C18' and who?

Take a wild guess.

 

[co-op]

One minute you say they're no threat, the next they're preparing for Kristallnacht.

I don't think there's some massive contradiction here. At the electoral level the BNP are a joke, and I'd also argue that racism has been given a solid pasting as an ideology in the last few decades - even the fairly openly racist conventional right-wing media (egThe Daily Mail, The Daily Telegraph) have renounced it quite formally.

They are very weak and there's no real evidence that I can see that's going to change dramatically or soon.


But where there is an active local branch - yep - an increase in local tension and violence is an almost inevitable outcome. Part of the reason for their marginal status is that they can't quite straddle the 'street-thug vs respectable local councillor' schism, and in the end the 'street thug' tendency wins out every time. That can be pretty unpleasant in your local high street on a face-to-face basis.

 

[Joe Reilly]

Take a wild guess.

There is quite enough 'guessing' passed off as analysis on here already.

 

[LLETSA]

But where there is an active local branch - yep - an increase in local tension and violence is an almost inevitable outcome. Part of the reason for their marginal status is that they can't quite straddle the 'street-thug vs respectable local councillor' schism, and in the end the 'street thug' tendency wins out every time. That can be pretty unpleasant in your local high street on a face-to-face basis.

Is anybody going to produce some evidence for this sort of thing, or what?

 

[The Black Hand]

One minute you say they're no threat, the next they're preparing for Kristallnacht.

You are confusing the issue for whatever reason. There IS a difference between the BNP and who does the racism when they stand in an area. It still means they are a very very long way from power...

 

[The Black Hand]

There is quite enough 'guessing' passed off as analysis on here already.

Yes, and you are the chief culprit.

 

[Joe Reilly]

Yes, and you are the chief culprit.

Produce the 'evidence' you blowhard.

 

[LLETSA]

You are confusing the issue for whatever reason. There IS a difference between the BNP and who does the racism when they stand in an area. It still means they are a very very long way from power...

Who said anything about power?

All people have done is ask for concrete evidence of this alleged connection between BNP activity and a rise in racist violence.

 

[audiotech]

Who said anything about power?

All people have done is ask for concrete evidence of this alleged connection between BNP activity and a rise in racist violence.

There will be figures for different areas and accross the whole country showing data for racist violence - most of it collected and analysed by the police. Not always an accurate source.

There can be no "concrete evidence" showing the connection you describe. Nevertheless, I'm pretty certain there'll be some anecdotal evidence around.