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butchersapron said:
To me that suggests it is down on their average vote from the May election then.
Griffin and BNP strategy
- Thread starter durruti02
- Start date
To me that suggests it is down on their average vote from the May election then.
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durruti02 said:
I was suggesting that the days of ultra leftism (leftism here includes whatever shade of anarchism) are over, instead the reason of politics is to act, with effect. If your ideas are holding you back from having any effect, then you need to get involved with others who could. I am not saying abandon your commitment, but just get involved with something else and measure thats' success or not.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Attica said:
I don't think you can really call a result where the BNP came second and beat the combined lib-dem and tory vote anything but encouraging for them:
Labour 781 - 44%
BNP 348 - 20%
Ind 308 - 17%
Con 197 - 11%
LibDem 150 - 8%
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butchersapron said:
That makes sense when you've added the relevant % Though I would add that the strength of the Labour vote held up well.
JHE said:
well consider the related example of the Labour Deputy leadership election- which was well covered in the media etc. i dont have the exact figures, but
John Cruddas`s webpages reports "under half" of labour party members could be arsed to vote (in a very contested election with a range of canddiates from blairite to socialist) and an abysmal 8% of union members who could vote, returning their ballots
it is probably like most political parties in the BNP in one respect. 50% of members do nothing - even bother voting in internal elections. 35% may turn out if it is election time, griffin is speaking at their local branch or there is a beer to be drunk. the remaining 15% are out there every week leafletting,
paper selling etc.
one indication of activist numbers is the 881 members who stood as candidates in may - compared to 68 in 2002.
Attica said:
i disagree with your stats here. in addition to Rotherham with 2 votes over 3 over 20%, you get they polled over 20% in 4 barnsley wards and got over 20% in 2 doncaster wards for the first time
as to sheffield, accepted, they only got over 20% in one ward, but may 2007 for them was not always about numbers. in some towns they stood widely, in some they concentrated resources in a small number of wards for tactical reasons (like walsall for example). york wasnt that goos, but they did beat some major party candidates
its a depth of support which is worrying
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mk12 said:
It's important because to win the BNP must break through that Labour vote. If there is no hope of that happening the fascists are never going to be a threat in that ward and resources can be concentrated elsewhere.
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JimPage said:
Sheffield they did appallingly, Barnsley they are doing well, very well, unfortunately. The crucial areas to try to stop them are Barnsley and Rotherham imho, Sheffield is taking care of itself, Doncaster could be one to watch though, BUT I think it is too like Sheffield. Though some villages may become problematic.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Attica said:
Leaving Labour with a free run!
Don't look at it in nakedly electoral terms - a regular 20% vote without being able to break the labour vote is a problem in itself. It means a sizable proportion of the pop is voting BNP and the rest for the party that's imposing the conditions that allow the far-right to flourish. A labour vote is not the answer.
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butchersapron said:
Yours is utopian then - which wants to take everybody on, all at once, everywhere. That's the problem with an overly ultra left/left communist approach, it theorises itself out of political engagement.
Mine was a tactical observation which recognises the limited forces at our disposal - start from small acorns and all that, tactically in the right places.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
How can an argument for a political approach that takes on labour *and* the BNP (or 'everyone' as you put it) simulateneously be theorising itself out of political engagement?
The plain fact is, that if you take on labour you're automatically taking on those issues from which the BNP is growing. It's not either/or.
The plain fact is, that if you take on labour you're automatically taking on those issues from which the BNP is growing. It's not either/or.
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butchersapron said:
You said 'leaving Labour with a free run'. Implying that you wanted to take on Labour in that ward. I said that ward could be ignored and resources concentrated elsewhere. I do not think imposing a national policy which "takes on labour *and* the BNP (or 'everyone' as you put it)" is a political answer to the tactical demands we now face as a movement. It's about realistic attempts to put alternative anti fascism into practice against Ideologically Correct (I.C.) policy which does not engage. Incidentally IC politics needs to be demonised far more than PC is
Do you want to realistically take on the BNP or not? If so, a tactical pov is necessary to halt and reverse their spreading, starting with areas where they are on the edge of a councillor or two. I am not saying this is a national policy, but certainly it is one that is regionally applicable.
Attica said:
tacitical voting is aleady organised between labour and liberals in a number of areas- and it clearly worked in may 2007 in a number of key areas. there is a big but though, and that is this cannot go on for ever. it is one thing safrificing running a campaign in a few wards to stop the BNP- but what of when they are challenging more widely? it is one thing, for example, asking the librals to run a crap campaign in a ward for one election which is clearly not going to have much impact, but for ever?
the only long term solution is a political, socialist alternative, to win people from fascism, coupled with militant antifascism to smash the BNP wherever they can be found
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Attica said:You said 'leaving Labour with a free run'. Implying that you wanted to take on Labour in that ward. I said that ward could be ignored and resources concentrated elsewhere. I do not think imposing a national policy which "takes on labour *and* the BNP (or 'everyone' as you put it)" is a political answer to the tactical demands we now face as a movement. It's about realistic attempts to put alternative anti fascism into practice against Ideologically Correct (I.C.) policy which does not engage. Incidentally IC politics needs to be demonised far more than PC is
Do you want to realistically take on the BNP or not? If so, a tactical pov is necessary to halt and reverse their spreading, starting with areas where they are on the edge of a councillor or two. I am not saying this is a national policy, but certainly it is one that is regionally applicable.
So voting labour and liberal then. And why not tory if they're the ones competing with the BNP?
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butchersapron said:
I was not saying vote social democratic or fascist - mine was the third way, the international third position
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JimPage said:
I was talking about those sorts of agendas, but doing it tactically and politically beyond the ward Labour/liberal deals. Where those sorts of deals are happening clearly 'we' could focus elsewhere, starting with; Barnsley and Rotherham. I will say that this sort of activity is down to the militants in that Yorkshire, North Notts region, to begin with at least. This is not rocket science, attempting to halt and reverse the BNP in areas they are targetting.
Geoff kerr-morg
New Member
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/display.var.1602897.0.farmer_cuts_bnp_ties_after_punchup.php
Farmer cuts BNP ties after punch-up
A FARMER who contested Tony Blair's old seat for the British National Party last month has severed all ties with the organisation after a punch-up with its treasurer, The Northern Echo can reveal.
Andrew Spence became the BNP's most successful candidate when he polled 2,494 votes in the Sedgefield by-election.
The result was hailed by the far right party as a breakthrough, but the jubilation has turned to recrimination following ugly scenes at the party's Red, White and Blue Family Festival, in Derbyshire, last weekend.
Last night, Mr Spence said he had thrown punches at party treasurer John Walker and head of publicity Mark Collett.
"There was a slight altercation because of a clash of personalities,"
said Mr Spence.
"The police were not involved, it was dealt with by the festival security."
He was allegedly escorted from the site by BNP security.
Farmer cuts BNP ties after punch-up
A FARMER who contested Tony Blair's old seat for the British National Party last month has severed all ties with the organisation after a punch-up with its treasurer, The Northern Echo can reveal.
Andrew Spence became the BNP's most successful candidate when he polled 2,494 votes in the Sedgefield by-election.
The result was hailed by the far right party as a breakthrough, but the jubilation has turned to recrimination following ugly scenes at the party's Red, White and Blue Family Festival, in Derbyshire, last weekend.
Last night, Mr Spence said he had thrown punches at party treasurer John Walker and head of publicity Mark Collett.
"There was a slight altercation because of a clash of personalities,"
said Mr Spence.
"The police were not involved, it was dealt with by the festival security."
He was allegedly escorted from the site by BNP security.
lostexpectation
New Member
who are these guys?
http://www.thedailystar.net/2007/08/08/d70808011611.htm
http://www.thedailystar.net/2007/08/08/d70808011611.htm
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Geoff kerr-morg said:
THis was a big front page Headline and story in the Northern Echo - it must have set them back a bit up here. Also it looks like he scrapped with that twat Collet - Spence isn't the only one who would like to punch his lights out.
Geoff kerr-morg
New Member
The BNP's press officer, Dr Phil Edwards, would not comment about the punch-up or Mr Spence's resignation.
He said: "It is a private matter and it was nothing serious. I am not going to tell your disgusting newspaper anything."
He said: "It is a private matter and it was nothing serious. I am not going to tell your disgusting newspaper anything."
Geoff kerr-morg
New Member
Was it Dr Phil Edwards who did time for 'Glassing' a black guy for having a white girlfriend? I wonder what is Doctorate was in ?certainly not diplomacy.
Larry O'Hara
Well-Known Member
the argument was over Spence's expenses, fuelled by the old amber nectar 
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MC5 said:
Indeed I was at his trial
ha ha ha
