The Black Hand
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torres said:
WTF are you on? Your comment is gibberish - no contest seats a plenty there... Who gives a toss about the BNP - they're irrelevant
Griffin and BNP strategy
- Thread starter durruti02
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WTF are you on? Your comment is gibberish - no contest seats a plenty there... Who gives a toss about the BNP - they're irrelevant
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Where is this inflation - and why is it artificial?
The Black Hand
Unclean
Here's some proper analysis for you - go look at that 2003 link in the Broom ward, Brian Gibson is standing as 'Socialist Labour' and nearly gets a seat.
In 2007 he stands as an independent and gets less votes;
http://greataycliffe.sedgefield.gov...gh-council-local-government-elections-2007.en
This looks like opposition from the Left exists, and they're doing ok.
In 2007 he stands as an independent and gets less votes;
http://greataycliffe.sedgefield.gov...gh-council-local-government-elections-2007.en
This looks like opposition from the Left exists, and they're doing ok.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Can you please tie this to some sort of point? iI anyhting it showes that the left is dead if you want to extrapolate like stupid.
This is it from now on is it, you desperately trying to blow up the left?
This is it from now on is it, you desperately trying to blow up the left?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Yeah, the left is winning. Fucking hell. We could not be in a better postion could we?
The Black Hand
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torres said:
But you are trying to denigrate them and that is the other extreme, I prefer the middle realistic ground to be tbh.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
A no then.
The Black Hand
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torres said:
Here's Gateshead from this year;
http://www.gateshead.gov.uk/Council and Democracy/voting/results2007.aspx
GO and have an objective look at these results on a low turnout admittedly;
BNP standing, but coming nowhere in all seats, 8-10% roughly I would guess.
The traditional parties all standing and doing OK. The result? Status quo.
There's plenty to say about this of course...
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
8-10% with little or no party organisation up there - this is bad? The BNP normalisng a vote of that size (and it was 15% across sunderland wasn't it?) for them behind everyones back and in certain areas - the status quo? Dream on.
The Black Hand
Unclean
torres said:
If you want to bring Sunderland into it I shall go and check the figures, but they are on a year on year decline in Sunderland I think, around 13% now (my memory tells me this although I will now go and check).
If you want more of the status quo there are 2 easy examples in the North East that come to mind. Firstly, Middlesborough - with no BNP candidates at all!! And then Stockton on Tees; http://www.stockton.gov.uk/ 2 candidates with around 8/10% of the vote (and I suspect I have inflated their vote but I cannot be bothered to check).
Result? Status quo.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
No, not with a normalised 10-15% BNP vote in w/c communities. Not even close to the status quo. A status quo which itself is not good enough btw. Can't you begin to see the danger that this poses? Really?
The Black Hand
Unclean
torres said:
But it is not normalised in all W/c communities, a limited number maybe. But none in a big city like Boro IS significant. The BNP votes there are, are erratic, some wards higher, some lower.
Danger? I laugh in the face of danger and spit in its eye
But seriously, I think the anti fascist left in this country is in a piss poor state. But then I said this in the article I sent you - have you read it yet? I think the way forward is in more unity and solidarity, not less.
The Black Hand
Unclean
torres said:
Here the BNP are experimenting with getting votes - there are 2 main stories on their website at the minute, and here is the latest one with the 'N' in 'BNP' taken out;
http://www.b p.org.uk/news_detail.php?newsId=1615
They clearly are desperate to use any line possible to promote themselves, an attack on Spence's 4x4, and then blaming labour for it. It's rubbish. I think they will do poorly in Sedgefield... There's a lot of delusions of grandeur and wishful thinking in their self promotion. Calling themselves the 'new kids on the block' politically - its bollocks.
The Black Hand
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mk12 said:
There never has been though has there. Apart from the CP around/after WW2. Not every leftist group has prioritised elections, and certainly anarchists never have! Fetishisation of elections is the preserve of bourgeois politics.
Attica said:
Disagree with you on this one- full vote below with 5 votes and chancged to May 2007
Rotherham MBC, Valley
Lab 781 (43.8; -1.5),
BNP 348 (19.5; +2.0),
Ind 308 (17.3; +17.3),
Con 197 (11.0; -10.4),
LD 150 (8.4; -7.4).
Thats a full slate of mainstream candidates- and an independent who wasnt there last time- and the BNP vote went up ( a litttle, but still up)
Attica said:
1. The experiment started in 2000
2. As to sedgefield, if you can judge by the council election results in 2007, dont agree- there is some potential for them there. They stood in 14 of the 16 sedgefield wards- polling anwyhere between 39.9% and 3.3% with a total vote of 5,706 in those wards. if they can turn some of this support into votes this time round, and poll anywhere over 2,000 votes this time round I can see a saved deposit at least for them
Attica said:
Not every leftist group has prioritised elections, and certainly anarchists never have! Fetishisation of elections is the preserve of bourgeois politics.
attica
we are NOT fetishing elections ..
we are not panicing
etc etc
and torres clearly there are many seats in rural areas that are unpposed indy or tory and in urban areas there are some unopposed lab
but actually attica i do not see what relevance this has
can we not agree that we have a neo nazi organisation with unprecedented in british history, votes?
can we also not agree that they still though do not have the organisation to do anything with this vote and that it may be a purely protest vote?
clealry you have a beef with torres but it is not developing how we deal with the BNP WHEN we need to.
JimPage said:
I count 3,900 but anyway JP i essentially agree with you ..
surely attica their vote has gone up massively from 2003 to 2007 .. from just over 300 to many thousend is surely an issue??
p.s. what is the differrence between Sedgefield Council and Great Aycliffe council??
The Black Hand
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JimPage said:
This seems to me to be evidence of their vote peaking in this ward. Of course, whether it splits and by how much is down to local conditions, and efforts of the parties and the class composition and experience of voters differs in all wards...
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
durruti02 said:p.s. what is the differrence between Sedgefield Council and Great Aycliffe council??
Practically the same difference that exists between North Herts Council and Stevenage Borough Council: geography.
The Black Hand
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JimPage said:
They seem to have thrown a lot of effort into this seat but I don't live in the ward and have heard nothing about their actual efforts - though they are boasting about the efforts they are putting in. Including adverts in a local paper. There is some potential true, and given the money and apparent effort they put in, a saved deposit wouldn't be such a surprise. We'll see l8r. I didn't expect the newspaper adds for a start... There is a lot of wishful thinking by them on their website though - that is clear...
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
durruti02 said:
"Wards"? You mentioned two seperate local authorities in your post.
The Black Hand
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durruti02 said:
But its not - it is only in a minority of wards...
BTW - other people get criticised for calling them 'nazi'...
The Black Hand
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JimPage said:
1. Yes, there was a new path then, I was talking about how they are thinking on their feet in THIS election though. Having looked at their material I think their political judgement is wrong constantly in a number of ways.
2. Sedgefield results! Labour win on 40% turnout - 12K, 7K majority, down but respectable enough, Lib dem second, Tory 3rd, BNP 4th - 2,494 votes - 10% ish, Local independent 5th (forget name).
This ward represents a full on BNP try in a local election, which realised probably their maximum vote in this area. At a general election the result would be different simply because they would be spread too thin to get even this vote again - not get the adverts in the local paper cos they were funded nationally and probably internationally etc...
The local independent is the winner here I think, from nowhere, without a national profile, to 5th out of 12 runners
The Black Hand
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durruti02 said:
Maybe, but its not so much of a surprise given events in Europe. As I said I believe a lot of the BNP votes are votes that were already there, but not reaped. In other words there wasn't much politically for them to do to get those votes.
I also repeat that Griffin is not that good, the far harder and first task for him to accomplish is to break into the next level of votes, and this will be the 1st really serious test of his leadership. I think we can look forward to some years of them treading water before they realise this.
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