Griffin and BNP strategy
- Thread starter durruti02
- Start date
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Do piss off, dickhead.
ninonothing
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Stop spreading whatever issue it is you have with nino across the entire board, ta.brasicattack said:
nino_savatte said:Trevor McDonald didn't present the report. You continue to tie yourself up in knots in a desperate attempt to prove me wrong. Migrants workers come here for a short while and then go back to their country of origin. It would appear that you still have trouble distinguishing between a "migrant worker", an "immigrant" and a "refugee". Furthermore, you appear to be totally ignorant with regards to the status of migrants from the new EU countries, because you continue to suggest that they can come here and go straight to the top of the housing list and claim benefits. They can do neither of those things.
You can Google this stuff btw. Why the hell should I do your job for you? You'll be demanding that I wipe your arse next.
Carry on lying and digging yourself ever deeper.
why are you such a liar nino?
where have i ever said " .. that they can come here and go straight to the top of the housing list and claim benefits .." ???
just helpo us all and try to clarify some of the isssues scenarios i have given .., even your mate attica said it is obvious migrants ( with status .. after 5 years) often get housed before locals cause they are in more need!
p.s. have you EVER produced any evidence foe anything?? referred to research or the law??? no it is all just YOUR opinion .. with NO back up .. very poor ..
go on prove me wrong .. with references !!
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
durruti02 said:why are you such a liar nino?
where have i ever said " .. that they can come here and go straight to the top of the housing list and claim benefits .." ???
just helpo us all and try to clarify some of the isssues scenarios i have given .., even your mate attica said it is obvious migrants ( with status .. after 5 years) often get housed before locals cause they are in more need!
p.s. have you EVER produced any evidence foe anything?? referred to research or the law??? no it is all just YOUR opinion .. with NO back up .. very poor ..
go on prove me wrong .. with references !!
You're the liar, durutti and like so many others here, you smear when you can't get your own way.
How many times must I tell you? You simply do not want to listen and that isn't my problem - it's yours.
This is typical
You've suggested it (particularly with your BNP-inspired 'scenario'). You have the discursive talents of a slug.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
durruti02 said:
You claim that you're not against immigrants but here you are spreading more lies than I can shake a stick at.
Interesting how that story and that figure only appears in The Torygraph.
MC5 said:
Originally Posted by dash_two
Article dated May 2007 about a report into wages and immigration commissioned by the Low Pay Unit and carried out by University College London:
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/media/library/immigration
Quote:
The report goes on to say that although the arrival of economic migrants has benefited workers in the middle and upper part of the wage distribution, immigration has placed downward pressure on the wages of workers in receipt of lower levels of pay. Over the period considered, wages at all points of the wage distribution increased in real terms, but wages in the lowest quarter would have increased quicker and wages further up the distribution would have risen more slowly if it were not for the effect of immigration.
MC5 .. i think you have discounted inflation .. wages where i am (london public sector) have been falling consistently in comparison with inflation for many years now and even more so if you take into account property .. not like where you live i suspect?
nino_savatte said:
nino i have not SAID nor SUGGESTED what you say at all, have i???
if i have please provide evidence ..
.. and another smear , a " .. BNP inspired scenario .." .. no mate ( though no doubt they spread and encourage it) and one if you were bothered to talk and listen to people you would hear day in day out
this is from me on the 7th june ..
" ..you are also being ( deliberately?) disingenuous by suggesting that ANYONE is suggesting immigrants get given flats just for being immigrants .. the argument is about what priority needs to be given, what balance needs to be set, between NEED and LOCAL CONNECTION and LENGTH of reside.."
what is your problem with discussing the balence of local connection and need?
what is your problem with making transparent and absolutely clear he mechanisms by which people, and specifically migrants, get housing?? ( all your posts now are just afaik opinion .. no references ever)
why can you not actually answer, specifically and with reference to the law, the scenarios i give you?
e.g. " ..a young local couple with secure (if cramped) accomodation at their mums and dads will NOT get housed and will see immigrants ( from wherever) get housed IF they are in 'greater need' e.g. childen .."
lets change the style of debate on urban nino and actually deal with what each other says point by point. Are you willing to do that?
nino_savatte said:
so you deny/or say it is not true that 200,000 migrants got housed last year? It was widely reported with no rebuttal from anyone .. but you .. can you back this up?
"But after an investigation by ITV's Tonight With Trevor McDonald programme, the Government has admitted that 200,000 of Britain's social homes - five per cent of the total - were given to immigrants last year. There is a waiting list of 1.5 million for the four million social houses in Britain. Priority for houses is given to those most in need. Immigrant families cannot automatically be put to the top of the queue, but often fall into needy groups by being homeless or living in overcrowded accommodation"
you are saying this is all not true?
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
Attica said:1. We live in different times now and the possibilities are therefore different (between now and 100/50 yrs ago). As for that community comment of yours I disagree (but then I would). But I do not think we are best served with building simplistic/reductionist communities (there I go again)
2. There are thousands of empties in London. (and the last punctuation was FULL STOP) They maybe more efficient at disposing of them, but I was including all buildings, offices,factories, private housing stock. Anything.
3. 'The current period' differs in many many more ways than you have stated...
"Empties in London"? I presume you mean empty properties. Sorry, but there isn't. Although what there is are thousands of empty spaces as property developers have brought up space and left it idle so as to accumulate wealth.
As for "the 'community' worked at one workplace". This is a complete Marxist myth. Outside a few areas, there have never been single workplaces for single communities in London. In 1914 more than 97% of all industrial firms in the capital employed fewer than 100 people. In 1938 the average number of workers in factories in the LCC area was around 20!.
It is you, sir, that has a one-dimensional view of history, shaped by the fiction of Dickens and Blake as much as by the writings of Marx.
The Black Hand
Unclean
Divisive Cotton said:
Outside of a 'few areas' hahahahahahahahhahahahahah
- you mean outside the northern working class heartlands of Britain (and then not only there)... It is 'many areas' my friend, you are trying to construct an idealised viewpoint too, and at what point in history? Your view completely breaks down cos railways were not mass experience until the industrial revolution was very developed, and so to argue that people worked in different areas is bullshite. Even with the railways, places such as Shildon, County Durham, large amounts of people would have worked on 'the railways' as it was a relatively gigantic employer. Shildon now has part of the National Railway Museum as a result of this heritage.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs07/hosb0807.pdf
so another area for nino to think about ... in the five years from 2002 to 2006there were 700,000 thousend migrants given citizenship which gives full righst to social housing.
Can you help us find out how many apply for and get social housing?
and
http://forefrontmigration.co.uk/overview.php ..
on the routes to citizenship
so another area for nino to think about ... in the five years from 2002 to 2006there were 700,000 thousend migrants given citizenship which gives full righst to social housing.
Can you help us find out how many apply for and get social housing?
and
http://forefrontmigration.co.uk/overview.php ..
on the routes to citizenship
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
Attica said:
I say "there have never been single workplaces for single communities in London" and then you start talking about the north of England and Shildon and County Durham in particular. The history of the British working class is far more complex than your simplistic history. You think that a Dickenson society of thousands of employees per workplace was the norm. It was not.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
It's madness isn't it? He thinks what he reads about the past is real now. Wait for the NUM Dave Douglass link.
The Black Hand
Unclean
Divisive Cotton said:
Wtf you don't even know anything of the primitive accumulation debate - the transition from feudalism to capitalism etc and you say I have simplistic viewpoint, there's one word that describes your labelling of me and my ideas, and that is BULLSHIT
Go try some class struggle for a change 
The Black Hand
Unclean
torres said:
WTF - bad penny turns up
The Dave Douglass link is above latecomer, and you are late, to every class struggle there has ever been and will be. butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You've done it already. Excellent. I like how you think the NUM runs the working class in this country.
The Black Hand
Unclean
torres said:
You are full of wishful thinking my boy. You are easy led too.
audiotech
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durruti02 said:
Have you any data for the specific point you raise about London wages in the public sector and inflation over the many years you cite? It's not that I dion't believe you, I'm just interested.
I work in the charitable and voluntary sector and earn just over twelve grand a year (that's before tax), so there's no way I can afford to buy a house.
I did argue that immigration did have an affect on reducing wage growth for some in a post directed at you some time ago, when you stated, without any evidence, that immigration leads to a lowering of wages.
audiotech
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durruti02 said:
But what is the breakdown of these figures? In terms of type of dwelling? where it might be? Length of waiting list in the particular area? Are these 'immigrants' asylum seekers granted a right to remain? Are they single men? Are they families?
As I said, most of the housing allocated to immigrants where I am is in high rises and hard to let areas, where no one else wants to live. I used to work in an housing advice centre, so I know what has happened in my area. It's not as simple as quoting a figure of 200,000 immigrants and putting that alongside the figure of I.5 million waiting list. On a programme like ITV's tonight there is not much likelihood of a sophisticated analysis is there? It's just soundbites.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Just to repeat: migrant workers are not entitled to social housing. Immigrants and refugees are housed in temporary accommodation, like everyone else who applies for council housing. So-called "asylum seekers" are not entitled to benefits or social housing. People from the new EU states are not entitled to either social housing or benefits.
Durutti continues to insist that "migrants" are getting social housing unfairly because they are immigrants. For someone who insists that he isn't "against immigrants" he continues to regurgitate lie after lie. He does this because he doesn't like being "wrong". I wish he'd grow up.
Durutti continues to insist that "migrants" are getting social housing unfairly because they are immigrants. For someone who insists that he isn't "against immigrants" he continues to regurgitate lie after lie. He does this because he doesn't like being "wrong". I wish he'd grow up.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
durruti02 said:
They wait on the housing list like everyone else. You still have a problem with that - why?
Maybe if torres or one of your pals had said that, you wouldn't have a problem. Your problem seems to be with me not with the information. Grow up.
The Black Hand
Unclean
Divisive Cotton said:
You never said this ""there have never been single workplaces for single communities in London" till now. You may have meant it, but you cannot impose conditions that were in your head onto other people and their concerns.
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
Attica said:
What's this in post 641?
Outside a few areas, there have never been single workplaces for single communities in London.
Louis MacNeice
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
MC5 said:
This is the problem with the figure that The Telegraph has given: there is no breakdown and no information regarding temporary accommodation or hard to let properties that have been let to, not just immigrants, but to other applicants. I know that Hackney and Southwark used to have schemes, whereby they would use an open bidding process to let out hard-to-let properties. I would imagine that such properties are becoming harder to find.
Durutti continues to use the word "migrant" to illustrate his point but, as we all know, that word covers a variety of situations and circumstances. The programme also said that "most migrants will rent from the private sector".
Another issue that durutti avoids is the lack of new build social housing. Most councils haven't built any new homes for well over 20 years.
The Black Hand
Unclean
Louis MacNeice said:
Whoops. missed it. apologies.
The Black Hand
Unclean
More anti fascist news from the North - and more good news;
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2007/07/375359.html
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2007/07/375359.html
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