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Griffin and BNP strategy

nino_savatte said:
Your memory is getting worse, durutti. Either that, or you're being deliberately and wilfully ignorant.

Pereception of something is not the same as the reality. But then, you believe the myth that "migrants" are given priority over others in social housing. There is nothing I can say that will change that because you've already made up your mind. Tell you what, why don't you just call me a "liar" and get it over with? I know how the housing allocation sytem works and I've told you. You just don't want to believe it. Do you work in housing? Do you know anyone who works in housing?
Click to expand...


so explain and answer the scenarios .. it is really simple ..

yes these are myths ( myth meaning some truth and lots of flannel ) .. and myths used by the BNP ..

this is a anti BNP thread ..

so help us .. explain how people could suggest these myths and why they are wrong

cheers :)
 
durruti02 said:
so explain and answer the scenarios .. it is really simple ..

yes these are myths ( myth meaning some truth and lots of flannel ) .. and myths used by the BNP ..

this is a anti BNP thread ..

so help us .. explain how people could suggest these myths and why they are wrong

cheers :)
Click to expand...

Your last statement typifies your inability to read anything other than in a selective fashion.

Why don't you just call me a "liar" or don't you have the guts?
 
nino_savatte said:
The trouble with you is that you refuse to accept what I have said because, in your mind, immigrants are going to the top of the housing queue. Oddly enough, you have no proof of this; which supports what I have said about the allocation system all along.
Click to expand...

nino .. DO migrants ever get housed .. or do they not?? or are you suggesting migrants ( both under and over 5 years residency) NEVER ever get social housing?

so we are asking you to either claify this and if migrants do get social housing to explain how and why ..

tbh MC has answered some questions .. about refugees and NASS. He pointed out it is unlikely that familys will get one bed room flats and i suggestted that maybe NASS uses these a lot.

I also pointed out that MANY occassions when 'locals' see 'migrants' in social housing estate they are probably in RTB flats paying through the nose ..
 
nino_savatte said:
Go see a doctor. Maybe you are suffering from early Alzheimers or something. Best to get it checked out, eh? :D
Click to expand...

what a pathetic thing to say .. p.s one of my best friends mums has alzheimers .. it fking nasty disease

.. you are really sad
 
durruti02 said:
1) yes of course it is hypothetical!!!!!!!! every housing situation is unique .. but the two scenarios i put are in general circulation and to simply refuse to answer as nino does is nonsense ... and these are what the bnp etc come out with .. to ignore them is not nor does work ..

2) i agree .. but you can not as experiance shows shout about the general if yoiu are not open and honest about the specific .. it just does not wash

3)i think my point was it is the immediate that is important to have an answer for ..

yes of course where you and i are are differrent housing worlds currently .. i am not generalising to where you live .. but i daisgree that poeple are experianceing this in a raciall manner .. they see it as a rights and wrongs as a lack of fairness .. i do NOT see any rise in racism ..

the point about northern workers is interesting .. yes they did used to come to the south as skilled and unskilled labour .. and my point would stand exactly as before .. i would say the same thing .. that workers should be recruited locally .. it is no differrent .. and interestingly in fact many thousends have LOST work they used to do since EU enlargement ..
Click to expand...

Specifically you cannot compare individual cases, they get put on waiting lists and accumulate points according to need. If there is a general myth which has built up about housing allocation and its unfair nature perhaps this has been substituted for working class knowledge that it was the rich and powerful who controlled the money and power (and hence access to housing). And I am dealing with housing honestly here btw, and whatever 'cases' there are. Yes people are being fucked over but this is class struggle, it is how 'they' want housing and the system to work. I do not see why we should bend to 'fairness' 'sob stories' ('oh but its not fair')which all too often are being pushed in a racist manner (and I am talking about conversations I have had with 'common people'). A radical position in housing is not 'locals' first, that is a reactionary one.

We live in a globalised world now and distinctions between 'locals' and 'outsiders' have completely broken down, there are no locals nor outsiders anymore... And I say this as I am living in a region with a concrete identity. I suggest that the anarchist postion is the best, still. If you are in need go and take an empty. Short of revolution this is the best alternative for those in real need. For those whose concern is only about the quality of their over crowded housing, then economics and politics enters the debate straight away. For those who want 'other people to do things for them', in other words who are looking for a 'realistic' policy so that they can get housing, then old leftism is the answer - 'tax and build'.

As Gordon Brown is now promising to look after first time buyers I think the next years will see more of this sort of policy, &/or subsidised private buying. Government will continue as it is, and having just looked into my crystal ball I think Brown will be with us for a considerable time yet unfortunately. If I was to put a date on it (and this could be wrong) I would say 2013-2014, if he gets lucky 2017-2018.
 
Sunday, 17 June 2007
BNP brothers in school web row

Two BNP-supporting brothers have fallen foul of education chiefs after accessing right-wing websites while teaching in schools.

Adam Walker, 38, quit his job as a technology teacher after being suspended and told he faced disciplinary action.

He used a computer at Houghton Kepier, a foundation school in Houghton-le- Spring, Tyne and Wear, during working hours to view politically extreme sites.

His brother Mark, 36, a former RAF weapons technician, was suspended from Sunnydale Comprehensive, in Shildon, County Durham, pending an internal probe.

Mark, also a technology teacher, was found to have accessed the BNP's website during school hours.

The pair stood as BNP candidates in Tony Blair's nearby Sedgefield constituency last month.

Married Mark, who served in the first Gulf War, admitted he had viewed the website.

He said: "I looked at the BNP site but I've no idea why that should be an offence. Teachers often look at sites when they are at school. I am being persecuted because of what I believe in.

"This wouldn't be an issue if I was standing for Labour or the Tories.

"I love teaching kids and I'm a very good teacher. I've worked at the school almost eight years and the governors know I'm dedicated and a very hard worker.

"I've taken the children away on trips and my political beliefs are no way in conflict with my professional role. I don't preach politics at work.

"I was stunned when I was hauled in before the head teacher.

"She said she'd seen someone with my name standing for the BNP and asked if it was me. When I said it was, they went through my computer records.

"My suspension is an infringement of my human rights and on my right to freedom of speech. I shouldn't be persecuted for having a certain political view.

"However, I am prepared to sacrifice my career for what I believe in. I would stand up to machine gun fire to stand for the BNP. I believe in the party."

Mark, from Spennymoor, County Durham, who claims he and his brother are close friends of BNP leader Nick Griffin, was hauled before school bosses a week ago.

Meanwhile Adam, a former soldier and karate expert, left his job in February after admitting accessing three right- wing sites and a discussion forum about the BNP.

Adam, also from Spennymoor, claimed: "I got a letter from the school which said I was unfit to teach because of my political views.

"I admit I did look at a number of sites which could be seen to be right-wing during school time. Maybe I shouldn't have done that.

"I also spent a lot of time on computers while teaching kids but it was only when they were working on their own computers and I was free to do my own stuff.

"I spoke to advisers who said the school had a right to get rid of me so I left without a fight.

"I jumped before I was pushed."

Sunderland City Council refused to comment on Adam Walker's resignation.

A spokesman for the council said: "It's inappropriate to comment on internal matters at Houghton Kepier School."

Sue Byrne, head teacher at Sunnydale, said: "I can confirm that a member of staff has been suspended, without prejudice, by the school governing body pending inquiries into allegations of misuse of school equipment."

http://icnewcastle.icnetwork.co.uk


NB.

It is our understanding that Adam Walker was actually SACKED from his post,not as stated in the story
 
Union backing for BNP-row teacher Jun 24 2007




By Caroline Smith, The Sunday Sun




A teacher suspended for accessing right-wing political material on the internet during school time has become the victim of a "kangaroo court", his union has claimed.

Mark Walker may now take legal action against education chiefs after his headteacher allowed a separate teaching union - Unison - to hold an anti-fascist meeting on its premises last Monday.

The union sent letters to members of staff urging them to attend in opposition to "fascist infiltration" of schools.

Though not naming Mr Walker - a BNP council candidate - he is indirectly referred to as a "teacher currently suspended" and the letter states that teaching unions support "action being taken" against him.

We revealed last week how Mr Walker, 36, was suspended from Sunnydale School in Shildon, County Durham, in February after checks showed he had used school computers to look at right-wing websites during teaching time.

No other disciplinary action has been taken and he still hopes to be reinstated to his job.

Meanwhile, his brother Adam, 38, has quit his teaching job at Houghton Kepier foundation school in Houghton-le-Spring, Tyne and Wear, after he was also found to have accessed right-wing websites on the school's computer.

Last week Mark's union - Solidarity - which has close links with the BNP, slammed the decision to allow the meeting to take place before the internal investigation.

General Secretary Peter Harrington - who revealed that Mr Walker may consider legal action over the anti-fascist meetings - said: "It is ludicrous that a meeting against fascism was held at a school where a teacher has been suspended - we believe - for being a member of the BNP.

"It is like a kangaroo court, and the decision of the school is outrageous, as is the stand taken by the unions.

"Whatever one's personal view of the BNP, it is a legal political organisation which has been sanctioned by the state. Under the Human Rights Act he is allowed freedom of political expression.

"It is no coincidence that computers he had used - and not those of other teachers - were checked by the school authorities."

The National Union of Teachers - which had backed Mr Walker - is understood to have withdrawn its support.

Neither the school's headteacher nor Durham County Council were prepared to comment. Our calls to Unison were not returned.
 
This is how cack handedly these guys started a thread discussin in school time on Teesside online
http://www.teessideonline.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2664&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
After a little discussion Barte Nephew pops up in the debate saying he has just come across the BNP and they seem a decent lot.
Tap Barte Nephew into your search engine and he has said this same line on other web discussions.
Barte Nephew is an anagram of we are the BNP.
Check this out on teaching langauges
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?p=7638441#post7638441
 
On matters BNP, they are standing in a number of council by-elections over next few weeks (Oldham,Swansea, Sandwell, Rotherham, Gateshead, Nuneaton and Pendle)

As usual, none of these have a left opposition candidate of any description...
 
so apology for your ignorent comment nino???

and still no clarification of housing law from you .. who claims to be a ex housing officer!:rolleyes:

no wonder the BNP make hay when so called leftists won't answer questions like this ..

it is this lack of honesty of many leftists today that has been part of the collapse of the left in the w/c
 
durruti02 said:
so apology for your ignorent comment nino???

and still no clarification of housing law from you .. who claims to be a ex housing officer!:rolleyes:

no wonder the BNP make hay when so called leftists won't answer questions like this ..

it is this lack of honesty of many leftists today that has been part of the collapse of the left in the w/c
Click to expand...

You regurgitated a myth put about by the BNP and others and you want me to comment on it? Catch yourself on.

Oh and I have nothing to "apologise" for. Grow up ffs.

How many housing officers do you know personally? None, I'll wager. Your problem is that you cannot accept the truth when it is told to you. You would rather labour under the illusion that "migrants" (as you put it) go to the top of the housing list. The simple truth is this: you want to be 100% right on this issue and when someone like me, who has worked in housing comes along and shatters your cosy wee view of things, you hate it.

Stop your whining and accept that what I have told you is the truth. If you don't believe me, how about you toddle off to your local housing office and ask them...or maybe you'll accuse them of lying to you as well.
 
What I would like to know is why you think that this is a question. It's a statement and, while you give with one hand, you take with the other.

From what you have said though i see nothing that contradicts the assertion that a young local couple with secure (if cramped) accomodation at their mums and dads will NOT get housed and will see immigrants ( from wherever) get housed IF they are in 'greater need' e.g. childen .. in fact you actually back up this assertion in your second paragraph ..
Click to expand...

Here, you appear to be suggesting that immigrants are moved up the housing list because they are immigrants. It's a falsehood and a fiction and if all you have is this as a means of 'dismantling' my argument, then it's a pretty poor show.

Which part of the following statement did you not understand?

All applicants are treated fairly and those with severe disabilities or medical conditions are given priority. It's called a "points system" and all RSLs use the system.

How dare you regurgitate BNP myth and dress it up as reality. You're well out of order.

Perhaps you will take issue with this
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAnd...CareHomes/ApplyingForACouncilHome/DG_10029763

And repeat the mythological scenario. :rolleyes:

Here's another for your perusal, it's from direct.gov.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAnd...CareHomes/ApplyingForACouncilHome/DG_10021153
 
Geoff kerr-morg said:
Last week Mark's union - Solidarity - which has close links with the BNP, slammed the decision to allow the meeting to take place before the internal investigation.

General Secretary Peter Harrington - who revealed that Mr Walker may consider legal action over the anti-fascist meetings - said: "It is ludicrous that a meeting against fascism was held at a school where a teacher has been suspended - we believe - for being a member of the BNP.
Click to expand...

any relation to patrick harrington?
 
durruti02 said:
it is this lack of honesty of many leftists today that has been part of the collapse of the left in the w/c
Click to expand...

You've already aknowledged my post on the subject, so what are you on about now?
 
On the Wright Stuff today, a London caller, an australian migrant said her dad was offered a choice of several different council properties, before he chose one next to a pub, Wright was quite shocked by this. So is it the case that migrants do get housing, if so, why do people on here and the liberal left deny this is the case?,Are they being disengenuous and basically lying though their teeth to defend a wider position and not concede anything to the far right, (actually not an unusual occassion) if they are wrong, they should say so, denying reality can be very dangerous and open up spaces for the far right....

for me, I don't know whether they do or don't but i am hearing anecdotal evidence of migrants, refugees, etc, getting rehoused ahead of others..
 
treelover said:
On the right stuff today, a London caller, an australian migrant said her dad was offered a choice of several different council properties, before he chose one next to a pub, Wright was quite shocked by this. So is it the case that migrants do get housing, if so, why do people on here and the liberal left deny this is the case?,Are they being disengenuous and basically lying though their teeth to defend a wider position and not concede anything to the far right, (actually not an unusual occassion) if they are wrong, they should say so, denying reality can be very dangerous and open up spaces for the far right....

for me, I don't know whether they do or don't but i am hearing anecdotal evidence of migrants, refugees, etc, getting rehoused ahead of others..
Click to expand...

Its called 'waiting your turn':p :D
 
treelover said:
On the Wright Stuff today, a London caller, an australian migrant said her dad was offered a choice of several different council properties, before he chose one next to a pub, Wright was quite shocked by this. So is it the case that migrants do get housing, if so, why do people on here and the liberal left deny this is the case?,Are they being disengenuous and basically lying though their teeth to defend a wider position and not concede anything to the far right, (actually not an unusual occassion) if they are wrong, they should say so, denying reality can be very dangerous and open up spaces for the far right....

for me, I don't know whether they do or don't but i am hearing anecdotal evidence of migrants, refugees, etc, getting rehoused ahead of others..
Click to expand...

It sounds like you're more prepared to accept hearsay and gossip as fact than anything else.
 
Attica said:
Its called 'waiting your turn':p :D
Click to expand...

Exactly. Besides, migrant workers - that is to say, people who are here for a short period of time - are not entitled to social housing. Other immigrants wait their turn on the housing list.

But here treelover also uses the word "migrant" as some sort of pejorative. Since when did The Wright Stuff serve as some sort of font of truth? I'm only surprised treelover didn't cite Vanessa Feltz or Jon Gaunt...or some silly sausage from TalkSport. Of course he could have also claimed that he had read it in The Daily Sport. :D
 
nino_savatte said:
You regurgitated a myth put about by the BNP and others and you want me to comment on it? Catch yourself on.

Oh and I have nothing to "apologise" for. Grow up ffs.

How many housing officers do you know personally? None, I'll wager. Your problem is that you cannot accept the truth when it is told to you. You would rather labour under the illusion that "migrants" (as you put it) go to the top of the housing list. The simple truth is this: you want to be 100% right on this issue and when someone like me, who has worked in housing comes along and shatters your cosy wee view of things, you hate it.

Stop your whining and accept that what I have told you is the truth. If you don't believe me, how about you toddle off to your local housing office and ask them...or maybe you'll accuse them of lying to you as well.
Click to expand...

i do not know any housing officers .. (should i??) ... that is why i ask you

and you continue to still slip and slide and deflect and ignore :rolleyes:

you carry on ( and on and on) using the straw man that i am suggesting migrants queue jump .. [ to qoute .. "the illusion that "migrants" (as you put it) go to the top of the housing list.." ]

i am not and never have .. not once .. ever and ever .. suggested that migrants, as migrants, get any preferential treatment ever

get it?????

you then finally :rolleyes: show us some refereneces .. which state EXACTLY what i know and understand and have been saying on here all along

that priority is given to homeless and the most needy

yes do you agree??

ok now .. so the assertion / the myth if you will have it is that this policy ( which differs form previous ones that gave more weight to local connections) implicitly favour migrants families

THIS is what is under discussion and what i ask you to comment on

so is it true??

you also ignored my question so .." how do the migrants who have social housing in london get that housing?"
 
Attica said:
Specifically you cannot compare individual cases, they get put on waiting lists and accumulate points according to need. If there is a general myth which has built up about housing allocation and its unfair nature perhaps this has been substituted for working class knowledge that it was the rich and powerful who controlled the money and power (and hence access to housing). And I am dealing with housing honestly here btw, and whatever 'cases' there are. Yes people are being fucked over but this is class struggle, it is how 'they' want housing and the system to work. I do not see why we should bend to 'fairness' 'sob stories' ('oh but its not fair')which all too often are being pushed in a racist manner (and I am talking about conversations I have had with 'common people'). A radical position in housing is not 'locals' first, that is a reactionary one.

We live in a globalised world now and distinctions between 'locals' and 'outsiders' have completely broken down, there are no locals nor outsiders anymore... And I say this as I am living in a region with a concrete identity. I suggest that the anarchist postion is the best, still. If you are in need go and take an empty. Short of revolution this is the best alternative for those in real need. For those whose concern is only about the quality of their over crowded housing, then economics and politics enters the debate straight away. For those who want 'other people to do things for them', in other words who are looking for a 'realistic' policy so that they can get housing, then old leftism is the answer - 'tax and build'.
Click to expand...

attica .. you seem to have no understanding of community / power / or politics and how they are created and destroyed .. 'go and take an empty' .. you are 20 years out of date re london and the south east
 
durruti02 said:
attica .. you seem to have no understanding of community / power / or politics and how they are created and destroyed .. 'go and take an empty' .. you are 20 years out of date re london and the south east
Click to expand...

Eh? I am all for people building communities, but not quaint niave and idealised ones. Are you telling me there are not thousands of empties in London? It could seem that it is you who needs to be a bit more honest about possibilities.

Here, we get beyond those who have no real need and are happy to talk about it, towards those with real need, whose actions rest in that place between necessity and desire, and who do not care where they get their housing from, or where it is, as long as they get housing.
 
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