Grenfell Tower fire in North Kensington - news and discussion

[cupid_stunt]

87 discoveries of human remains have been found in Grenfell Tower, police reveal

"On Monday, we forensically recovered the last of the visible human remains from Grenfell Tower and transferred them to Westminster Mortuary."

Mr Cundy said: "I do not want there to be any hidden victims of this tragedy. We continue our work to build as full a picture as possible of who was inside Grenfell Tower on the night and, importantly, those who lost their lives. I completely understand the desire for clarity."

I hope I am wrong, but seeing the pictures of the inside of some of those flats, and the police saying it will take months to complete the search despite 250 people being involved, I suspect there will be hidden victims.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I suspect there will be hidden victims.

Yep, for sure.

 

[Mation]

Why have you come back to this with yet another unnecessary condescending effort at a history lesson?

No, you didn't hence your 'No. Just no.' post.

I think you have since actually read the article and thought about it...realising there is much more to what she has written with regard 'racist housing policies' and perhaps the analogy is making much more sense to you now you have actually considered it more closely.

Statements like this are annoying tbh...

You are talking about PEOPLE, the direct ancestors of and/or people here on Urban. There is a coldness and objectification in your tone and descriptions. A phrasing which seems to overlook the importance of almost 70 years of 'stay power' and experiences. Policies don't need to be openly racist to have an effect. They just need to be implemented.

It's only gradually been dawning on me that the term 'openly racist' usually seems to mean only the racism that's obvious to white people.

 

[Treacle Toes]

 

[David Clapson]

On C4 News last night Simon Israel said he knew of a tenant who had sublet her flat but was too scared to come forward. AFAIK the Police have said they won't prosecute illegal subletters, but there's been nothing from the council to say that they won't ask for the money back and the tenant won't lose their entitlement to a property. What a fucking dog's breakfast.

I wonder how much the typical wait for social housing would be cut by if there was no subletting? Is subletting a big enough factor to deserve a mention in the debates about not enough social housing being built? If the Tories were aware of the true scale of subletting, would they be using it as a stick with which to beat Labour-dominated councils? If all councils were as inept, obstructive and wrong-headed as Lambeth, would there be habitable council housing anywhere in the country? I'd like to see the entire stock transferred to housing associations.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I'd like to see the entire stock transferred to housing associations.

Why???

 

[David Clapson]

Because they're less useless than councils.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Because they're less useless than councils.

Are they? This isn't my experience at all. They are also more expensive IME.

 

[sealion]

I'd like to see the entire stock transferred to housing associations.

A lot of social housing is already managed by ha's on the coucils behalf. The management and corner cutting is still shit and subletting is as rife as it is with council property.

 

[David Clapson]

Maybe someone else should run them all. I'm struggling to think of candidates though. Shelter? Centrepoint?

 

[killer b]

How about some sort of elected body, accountable to the tenants and wider community?

 

[Pickman's model]

I'd like to see the entire stock transferred to housing associations.

i'm sure you would

 

[Artaxerxes]

Maybe someone else should run them all. I'm struggling to think of candidates though. Shelter? Centrepoint?

Shelter are a bit dodgy with this at the moment.

 

[Sue]

How about some sort of elected body, accountable to the tenants and wider community?

Was just about to suggest that, completely crazy idea as it is...

 

[not-bono-ever]

How about some sort of elected body, accountable to the tenants and wider community?

How about a block Soviet, appointed by and answerable to the residents? No subletting, no profiteering, no queue jumping.

 

[not-bono-ever]

re above- half taking the piss, but most of the HA and Arms length vehicles used are unfit for the purpose nowadays

 

[Pickman's model]

Shelter are a bit dodgy with this at the moment.

perhaps you could expand on that 'dodgy' bit

 

[Artaxerxes]

perhaps you could expand on that 'dodgy' bit

Nah.

 

[David Clapson]

How about some sort of elected body, accountable to the tenants and wider community?

A housing dept accountable to tenants, and tenants accountable to the housing dept. You'd need 10,000 clones of Beveridge and Bevan to make that happen.

 

[Pickman's model]

Nah.

because as far as i can see from the article they *were* dodgy but unless you have some other information to the contrary the dodgy/dodgier people seem to have gone.

 

[not-bono-ever]

I need to get away from U75, I am going to go postal soon. Grrr

 

[David Clapson]

I took the Shelter resignations to be a sign that there are a lot of motivated, principled staff there. You don't go through those agonies unless it's important to you. It's not as if they were pushed to do it by external critics.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I took the Shelter resignations to be a sign that there are a lot of motivated, principled staff there. You don't go through those agonies unless it's important to you. It's not as if they were pushed to do it by external critics.

They were motivated by the fact that internal critics saw the conflicts of interest and their positions as untenable.

 

[cupid_stunt]

How about some sort of elected body, accountable to the tenants and wider community?

So, a council?

 

[andysays]

Verso The colonial politics of space overdetermined the premature and violent deaths of the Grenfell residents racialised as non-white

Coming back to this thread after a break, but have to comment on this

What about the premature and violent deaths of the Grenfell residents not racialised as non-white?

How does Nadine El-Enany explain their deaths, or is she, as appears from her article, simply not interested in them as their deaths can't be used to push the one-dimensional agenda she's interested in pushing.

There is absolutely no mention of class in that article at all, and no recognition that some of the victims of Grenfell and many, many of those condemned by the state to exist in squalid and potentially life threatening housing conditions are in that position not because of colonialism or racism (which clearly still exists in housing provision), but because of poverty caused by the class system, so to claim that the article can be read as saying that both race and class are significant strikes me as either naive or disingenuous, unfortunately.

ETA: ...either naive or...

 

[killer b]

So, a council?

yesthatwasthejoke.

 

[planetgeli]

...some of the victims of Grenfell and many, many of those condemned by the state to exist in squalid and potentially life threatening housing conditions are in that position not because of colonialism or racism (which clearly still exists in housing provision), but because of poverty caused by the class system,

Indeed.

The squalid conditions in which people lived...in the area that became known as the potteries and the piggeries was described in a report that said most houses were"merely hovels in a ruinous condition" and "filthy in the extreme". The combination of unregulated house building, over-population, poor drainage and bad sanitation, all of which were completely ignored and brushed aside by the authorities, finally gave rise to serious concerns.
Not far from the affluent neighbouring areas, with their large mansions and villas, Notting Barns was regarded as a shameful blot on the landscape by the borough officials but they chose to refuse responsibility. In 1893 the Daily News claimed Notting Dale was " the most hopelessly degraded place in London".

Always been a class thing.

History of our estate - Silchester Estate

 

[Anju]

I was wondering if there is a way to find out if the Telegraph changed an article in response to a Facebook post from Ishmahil Blagrove.

Here are a couple of screenshots. One shows two points made in his post and the other shows part of the article which make it look like his comments are wrong.

 

[David Clapson]

Here's a copy of the article saved in the Google cache on 5 Jul 2017 at 19:45:27. The Justice4Grenfell agitators: campaign group tries to push Tower inquiry judge to resign

Google would have saved copies of the article at other times but I don't know whether they can be retrieved.

Edit: you could search in the Google Search forum. If the answer's not there you could post a question. Google Groups

 

[Anju]

Here's a copy of the article saved in the Google cache on 5 Jul 2017 at 19:45:27. The Justice4Grenfell agitators: campaign group tries to push Tower inquiry judge to resign

Google would have saved copies of the article at other times but I don't know whether they can be retrieved.

Edit: you could search in the Google Search forum. If the answer's not there you could post a question. Google Groups

Thanks. The Facebook post was about 6 hours before that version. Hopefully someone will know if it's possible to retrieve an earlier version. Original article was from yesterday evening.