Goldsmiths University Diversity officer facing sack

[cesare]

Race
(1)Race includes—

(a)colour;

(b)nationality;

(c)ethnic or national origins.

(2)In relation to the protected characteristic of race—

(a)a reference to a person who has a particular protected characteristic is a reference to a person of a particular racial group;

(b)a reference to persons who share a protected characteristic is a reference to persons of the same racial group.

(3)A racial group is a group of persons defined by reference to race; and a reference to a person's racial group is a reference to a racial group into which the person falls.

(4)The fact that a racial group comprises two or more distinct racial groups does not prevent it from constituting a particular racial group.

Equality Act 2010

 

[belboid]

No it doesn't. It just accepts that you can't describe those power structures with one word.

whereas i think it is incredibly useful to describe those power structures with one word, otherwise we get to idiotic distinguishing between racism, really bad racism, and totally and utterly bad racism.

 

[belboid]

it is isn't it?

IIRC a lorry driver was even found guilty in regards to this after a road rage incident

edit - got the quote wrong:

Englishman fined for racism after insulting Welsh policeman



why is the existence of 'welsh' as an ethnicity a problem?

that quotes 'racially aggravated' not racist. That is the very difference I am arguing

 

[littlebabyjesus]

That legal definition isn't without problems. 'bloody taffs' = racist; 'bloody scousers' = not racist.

 

[Dowie]

That legal definition isn't without problems. 'bloody taffs' = racist; 'bloody scousers' = not racist.

you could say that about Turks or Irish people or travelers too... though I think 'taffs' have more claim to being an ethnic group that scousers. Separate country, language etc..

I'm still not clear on why 'Welsh' being an ethnicity is a problem? Would you consider Irish to be an ethnicity?

 

[Dowie]

that quotes 'racially aggravated' not racist. That is the very difference I am arguing

and diversity officer has been charged over a 'racially motivated' communication no?

 

[DotCommunist]

Some of this reminds me of comments I've seen on Facebook that "white people have never experienced racism". Mentioning the Irish experience in the 70s and 80s usually shuts them up.

many irish ended up on slavers ships way back when, before they were welcomed into Whitehood.

its one of those things where race cuts across class lines imo. Chuka getting a tug and a working over from OB cos a black mans in a nice car, for hypothetical example. Mans totally of the upper class, but to two plods pulling him ove he's just another nigger in a car he shouldn't have.

I dunno, I'd spend all week slagging of some intersctionalist bellend but to see it come from the right, and a particularly virulent aggressive section of it. Well fuck that. She may be a bit of a cockhead but the person gunning for her aligns with a milue that use rape threats, hacking and murder threats as their way of enforcing a set of social and political conservative mores fast running out of their grasp. Fuck those people. I hadn't even noticed the fuckers before they started wading into SF and Fantasy and computer game stuff to issue death threats to people doing feminist crit of games and stuff. Salt mines imo.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

you could say that about Turks or Irish people or travelers too... though I think 'taffs' have more claim to being an ethnic group that scousers. Separate country, language etc..

I'm still not clear on why 'Welsh' being an ethnicity is a problem? Would you consider Irish to be an ethnicity?

If a Welsh person living in England told me they were an ethnic minority and that they knew what it was like to experience racism, I would probably find it hard to take them too seriously. Regional prejudices aren't the same as racism. Not all prejudice is racism, and not all racism is equal.

 

[Orang Utan]

If a Welsh person living in England told me they were an ethnic minority and that they knew what it was like to experience racism, I would probably find it hard to take them too seriously. Regional prejudices aren't the same as racism. Not all prejudice is racism, and not all racism is equal.

It's a shit word, racism. It clearly doesn't serve us very well.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It's a shit word, racism. It clearly doesn't serve us very well.

Hard to define precisely. But I generally know it clear as day when I see it.

 

[Dowie]

If a Welsh person living in England told me they were an ethnic minority and that they knew what it was like to experience racism, I would probably find it hard to take them too seriously. Regional prejudices aren't the same as racism. Not all prejudice is racism, and not all racism is equal.

Yes I'm aware not all racism is equal. But the question was why is 'Welsh' being an ethnicity a problem in itself? Since you consider 'Welsh' being an ethnicity to be a problem I'm curious as to whether you consider 'Irish' to be an ethnicity? Or is prejudice towards Irish people also just a 'regional prejudice'?

 

[belboid]

and diversity officer has been charged over a 'racially motivated' communication no?

you haven't been following this actual discussion very closely, have you? Prick

 

[Dowie]

you haven't been following this actual discussion very closely, have you? Prick

I was replying a particular post re: a group being an 'ethnic group' apparently being a 'problem', cunt (seems to be standard to chuck in a random insult when you get wound up on here)

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yes I'm aware not all racism is equal. But the question was why is 'Welsh' being an ethnicity a problem in itself? Since you consider 'Welsh' being an ethnicity to be a problem I'm curious as to whether you consider 'Irish' to be an ethnicity?

I don't necessarily consider 'Welsh' as an ethnicity as a problem. That wasn't really my point. Problem here is the usual one of categorising a fuzzy world into sharply defined boxes. Not all ethnicities carry the same meaning or weight, and some are subsumed by wider ethnic groups.

 

[belboid]

If a Welsh person living in England told me they were an ethnic minority and that they knew what it was like to experience racism, I would probably find it hard to take them too seriously. Regional prejudices aren't the same as racism. Not all prejudice is racism, and not all racism is equal.

that's because racism is more than just prejudice, as i argued earlier. The point of the word being specific is to avoid this kind of argument

 

[Belushi]

From where I'm sitting in downtown Tottenham racism, prejudice & power is a hell of complicated subject, but for all the bad shit that happens round here from time to time I'm glad that most of the time people rub along well.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Or maybe it was her handler?

More likely to have been your mum.

 

[Dowie]

I don't necessarily consider 'Welsh' as an ethnicity as a problem. That wasn't really my point. Problem here is the usual one of categorising a fuzzy world into sharply defined boxes. Not all ethnicities carry the same meaning or weight, and some are subsumed by wider ethnic groups.

That is true... but if someone is turned down for a job in England by say an English person on the basis that they're 'Welsh' or 'Irish' or 'Scottish' then the effect is still the same as if they were not from a regional ethnic group and needs to be dealt with in the same way. I don't for a minute expect that they'd experience some of the other every day racism that other groups do but I don't see that classifying them as ethnic groups is problematic. And yes some individual openly expressing hatred and/or abusing someone purely on the basis of them being Irish, Welsh etc.. needs to be dealt with too.

 

[Plumdaff]

I would argue that one of the reasons Scousers get such stick is that their Irishness and Welshness.

 

[Wilf]

From the twitter of the bloke who seemingly grassed her up to the police ('Andy Greene')

"TLT 2020 ‏@twilightz2020 · 20h20 hours ago
they should have some diverse rapey types interrogate her"

 

[Treacle Toes]

From the twitter of the bloke who seemingly grassed her up to the police ('Andy Greene')

"TLT 2020 ‏@twilightz2020 · 20h20 hours ago
they should have some diverse rapey types interrogate her"

Perhaps he should be reported for inciting rape?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I would argue that one of the reasons Scousers get such stick is that their Irishness and Welshness.

Yep, agreed. But imho if you start shouting 'racism' at every form of prejudice, you lose sight of the vast differences between those prejudices, differences not just in degree but in kind.

 

[Plumdaff]

Yep, agreed. But imho if you start shouting 'racism' at every form of prejudice, you lose sight of the vast differences between those prejudices, differences not just in degree but in kind.

Did I claim racism?

 

[Citizen66]

From the twitter of the bloke who seemingly grassed her up to the police ('Andy Greene')

"TLT 2020 ‏@twilightz2020 · 20h20 hours ago
they should have some diverse rapey types interrogate her"

I thought it was Andy Keane / Keene?

 

[Citizen66]

 

[Pickman's model]

You're the one who suggested it was a nationality, not me.

you say you didn't mean it as a nationality now. but you could have said that earlier, if that's what you actually meant, and saved everyone a great deal of trouble. but as you didn't i don't think you're being absolutely honest here.

Not that you give a shit about the issue either way. You just want to sew discord

i believe it is impossible to sew discord. or to knit it.

 

[Pickman's model]

TBH, this seems like a remarkably pointless line to take, even for you.

You assumed that OU was referring to her nationality rather than her ethnicity, and while his subsequent responses may have been a little confused, there's nothing being served by continuing to pursue this point other, than your ego.

thank you for your input. i will take it under advisement, and expect to see you take your own advice.

 

[Pickman's model]

I think it should be "sow discord", but however you spell it, he's certainly bound for the 8th Circle of Dante's Hell

i doubt it.

 

[Belushi]

Hmmm Sorcery maybe

 

[Belushi]

I've just had to google Simony