Goldsmiths University Diversity officer facing sack

[Pickman's model]

I don't think it is irrelevant.

and then it's back to the conflation of nationality and ethnicity and why you think that a good idea.

 

[Citizen66]

The original argument was in reversal though, if we cannot truly label who is or isn't White then how can Bashar?

#killallshadesofgrey

 

[Blagsta]

Some of this reminds me of comments I've seen on Facebook that "white people have never experienced racism". Mentioning the Irish experience in the 70s and 80s usually shuts them up.

 

[Belushi]

Some of this reminds me of comments I've seen on Facebook that "white people have never experienced racism". Mentioning the Irish experience in the 70s and 80s usually shuts them up.

Or the East European experience in the UK now.

 

[Fedayn]

Or the East European experience in the UK now.

Some of this reminds me of comments I've seen on Facebook that "white people have never experienced racism". Mentioning the Irish experience in the 70s and 80s usually shuts them up.

Or Jews...

 

[Orang Utan]

Problem with that is that you end up with Welsh people calling racism over anti-Welsh feeling, and doing so with a straight face by claiming 'Welsh' as an ethnicity.

That's not unreasonable, is it?

 

[Orang Utan]

and then it's back to the conflation of nationality and ethnicity and why you think that a good idea.

It seems you've conflated them, not me.

 

[Belushi]

My ethnicity is welsh :thumbs :

 

[Wilf]

This report doesn't add any more detail, but the way they describe it makes it clear it was about #killallwhitemen tweets.
London woman Bahar Mustafa was arrested for allegedly tweeting the hashtag #killallwhitemen

 

[littlebabyjesus]

That's not unreasonable, is it?

I think it is unreasonable, yes. Not all prejudice is racism.

 

[Orang Utan]

I think it is unreasonable, yes. Not all prejudice is racism.

I think this only serves to highlight the poverty of the word racism.

 

[belboid]

I think this only serves to highlight the poverty of the word racism.

racism = prejudice + power

Otherwise it is simply prejudice

 

[Orang Utan]

racism = prejudice + power

Otherwise it is simply prejudice

Makes sense

 

[likesfish]

racism = prejudice + power

Otherwise it is simply prejudice

in special snowflake tumblr world
in the rest of the world

noun

1. the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
   "theories of racism"
   • prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
     "a programme to combat racism"
     synonyms: racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice/bigotry, xenophobia,chauvinism, bigotry, bias, intolerance; More

 

[andysays]

racism = prejudice + power

Otherwise it is simply prejudice

Except that simply begs the question of what exactly do we mean by the words prejudice and power?

 

[Pickman's model]

It seems you've conflated them, not me.

no, it doesn't. not unless i posted under your name the comment 'she's turkish' a page or two back.

 

[belboid]

in special snowflake tumblr world
in the rest of the world

noun

1. the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
   "theories of racism"
   • prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
     "a programme to combat racism"
     synonyms: racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice/bigotry, xenophobia,chauvinism, bigotry, bias, intolerance; More

oh well, if its in an online dictionary, who could argue??!!

A simple look at the supposed synonyms should show why that definition is grossly insufficient, that effectively would equate racism with being biased against tories.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

racism = prejudice + power

Otherwise it is simply prejudice

Hmmm. That's the logic some use to claim that black people can't be racist.

Why not keep it simple: racism is prejudice based on race. (Allowing that definitions of race are hotly contested and vary by person.)

 

[andysays]

no, it doesn't. not unless i posted under your name the comment 'she's turkish' a page or two back.

TBH, this seems like a remarkably pointless line to take, even for you.

You assumed that OU was referring to her nationality rather than her ethnicity, and while his subsequent responses may have been a little confused, there's nothing being served by continuing to pursue this point other, than your ego.

 

[Citizen66]

Hmmm. That's the logic some use to claim that black people can't be racist.

Why not keep it simple: racism is prejudice based on race. (Allowing that definitions of race are hotly contested and vary by person.)

And some racism carries more weight than others.

 

[belboid]

Why not keep it simple: racism is prejudice based on race. (Allowing that definitions of race are hotly contested and vary by person.)

because that ignores the power structures that allow racism to flourish. As a marxist, I always look at the power dynamic, who benefits, and how does it prop up the ruling class.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

And some racism carries more weight than others.

Yep. But you can't encapsulate that within the term 'racism'.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

because that ignores the power structures that allow racism to flourish..

No it doesn't. It just accepts that you can't describe those power structures with one word.

 

[Orang Utan]

no, it doesn't. not unless i posted under your name the comment 'she's turkish' a page or two back.

You're the one who suggested it was a nationality, not me.
Not that you give a shit about the issue either way. You just want to sew discord

 

[Orang Utan]

in special snowflake tumblr world
in the rest of the world

noun

1. the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
   "theories of racism"
   • prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
     "a programme to combat racism"
     synonyms: racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice/bigotry, xenophobia,chauvinism, bigotry, bias, intolerance; More

The definition you give suggests that racism is synonymous with xenophobia, chauvinism, bigotry and intolerance.

 

[Orang Utan]

Hmmm. That's the logic some use to claim that black people can't be racist.

Why not keep it simple: racism is prejudice based on race. (Allowing that definitions of race are hotly contested and vary by person.)

But then you get all those islamophobes claiming not to be racists.

 

[andysays]

Hmmm. That's the logic some use to claim that black people can't be racist.

Why not keep it simple: racism is prejudice based on race. (Allowing that definitions of race are hotly contested and vary by person.)

Or based on perceived race, perhaps.

This kind of brings us back round to where this began where Bahar Mustapha was quoted here as saying

There have been charges laid against me that I am racist and sexist towards white men. I, an ethnic minority woman, cannot be racist or sexist towards white men, because racism and sexism describe structures of privilege based on race and gender. Therefore, women of colour and minority genders cannot be racist or sexist, since we do not stand to benefit from such a system.

This line of argument isn't original with her, but she's stating it as if it's universally accepted, which it clearly isn't.

It might also have been more effective if she had rebutted the idea that she was racist etc by explaining why she thought it was appropriate to host a "BME Women and non-binary event only", which appears to mean one from which white men, amongst others, were excluded, rather than getting into the "PoC can't be racist" argument.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

But then you get all those islamophobes claiming not to be racists.

What they claim and what you think about their claim are two very different things, though. If said islamophobes are coopting notions of race into their prejudice, then they're being racist.

In fact, that clears up problems distinguishing between islamophobia with racist aspects - hating Muslims, as a group - and someone just hating Islam.

 

[andysays]

You're the one who suggested it was a nationality, not me.
Not that you give a shit about the issue either way. You just want to sew discord

I think it should be "sow discord", but however you spell it, he's certainly bound for the 8th Circle of Dante's Hell

 

[Dowie]

Problem with that is that you end up with Welsh people calling racism over anti-Welsh feeling, and doing so with a straight face by claiming 'Welsh' as an ethnicity.

it is isn't it?

IIRC a lorry driver was even found guilty in regards to this after a road rage incident

edit - got the quote wrong:

Englishman fined for racism after insulting Welsh policeman

Prosecutor Lucy Dowdall said: "He told them: 'I don't like you because you're Welsh, you're breathing and you're here'."

Mackett was charged with using racially aggravated threatening words by magistrates in Rhondda, South Wales.

why is the existence of 'welsh' as an ethnicity a problem?