Goldsmiths University Diversity officer facing sack

[cesare]

"our"?

Women's

 

[Citizen66]

I've been called a man so many times by TEs that I know the arguments by now and where they lead.

If I'm not a man, what am I?

Not a woman. Or are you disagreeing now with my suggestion earlier as being "too binary"?

 

[Sea Star]

But what about their views? I'm not certain that they're driven by bigotry tbh. They *may* be.

They are perfectly entitled to hold their views but they have no right impose them on the majority of women.

 

[Sea Star]

Not a woman. Or are youm disagreeing now with my suggestion earlier as being "too binary"?

I am binary though - I've met non binary people and I am not like any of them. I am a woman.

 

[Citizen66]

I am binary though - I've met non binary people and I am not like any of them. I am a woman.

But when I suggested this you disagreed with me. Were you being sardonic?

 

[Sea Star]

Everytime someone suggests I'm not a woman I put them on ignore. sorry about that but it actually hurts me.

 

[cantsin]

Sorry she behaved idiotically then decided to double down on her idiocy then complains she's being bullied.
What the fuck did she expect?
The male tears cartoon was a call out turns put she can hand it out just cant take it.

gamers/mens right sadfucks/Daily Mail/Toby Youngites/anti PC weirdos, UKIPers, raco dickwads of every hue etc etc all weighing in against one person here ....and little keyboard melt here reckons she 'just can't take it' .

Laughable.

 

[cesare]

Not a woman. Or are you disagreeing now with my suggestion earlier as being "too binary"?

Jesus fucking wept.

 

[cesare]

"I'm just being devil's advocate. You're not a woman"

 

[Citizen66]

Jesus fucking wept.

Wow. When I stated earlier (during a disagreement with Jousmaster) that I view people as men or women I was dismissed as being 'too binary' (a post liked by you iirc). But when altering my position to reflect that new information I'm wrong again?

 

[DotCommunist]

gamers/mens right sadfucks/Daily Mail/Toby Youngites/anti PC weirdos, UKIPers, raco dickwads of every hue etc etc all weighing in against one person here ....and little keyboard melt here reckons she 'just can't take it' .

Laughable.

a legion of spiteful neckbearded internet sociopaths lurk on that 4chan. Peeds as well.

 

[Citizen66]

I've already said a couple of posts above that I consider her female. I got my hand slapped for being too binary as she's a transwoman. not a ciswoman. Then she says she is binary. My head is spinninmg.

 

[cesare]

I've already said a couple of posts above that I consider her female. I got my hand slapped for being too binary as she's a transwoman. not a ciswoman. Then she says she is binary. My head is spinninmg.

That's what happens when you try and be devil's advocate and also white knight without being clear about the arguments.

 

[Citizen66]

That's what happens when you try and be devil's advocate and also white knight without being clear about the arguments.

We'd be more clear about the arguments if the debate wasn't closed down by labelling one side of it bigoted. You're partly to blame for this.

 

[cesare]

We'd be more clear about the arguments if the debate wasn't closed down by labelling one side of it bigoted. You're partly to blame for this.

It's my fault that you've now decided that "trans exclusionary" is derogatory and you don't like trans exclusionary people being upset?

 

[Sea Star]

The crux of this whether we have the right to self identify as what we know to be our true gender and to express that gender in the way that everybody else does. Or not - its our choice.

To self identify is a right for everybody except trans people apparently as cis people know better.

Bigotry is when you discriminate against a group of people based on some dogma that you are unable or unwilling to discuss.

the feminist trans exclusionary argument is bigotry.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I think things in the last few posts got confused because it swung from the general to the specific. ETA - Citizen66

 

[Citizen66]

It's partially your fault that I'm as ignorant as I am on the matter - which you appear keen to remind me - by stiffling any opposing argument as bigoted, yes. IMO obvs.

 

[Citizen66]

I think things in the last few posts got confused because it swung from the general to the specific. ETA - Citizen66

But it keeps being pulled to the specific!

 

[Fozzie Bear]

But it keeps being pulled to the specific!

Well that's because it is something that people who have directly experienced that oppression feel very strongly about. It's not "devil's advocate" for them - it's their life.

 

[Citizen66]

That's what happens when you try and be devil's advocate and also white knight without being clear about the arguments.

I'm only playing devils advocate because everyone else appears to have been frightened off the thread. I agree I'm the wrong person to be doing it. I want educating though. By both sides of the debate.

 

[Citizen66]

Well that's because it is something that people who have directly experienced that oppression feel very strongly about. It's not "devil's advocate" for them - it's their life.

True. But then how do we learn?

 

[Sea Star]

I'm starting to think this discussion would go a whole lot better if an actual trans woman wasn't here.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

True. But then how do we learn?

Well I'm sure you have taught yourself about all kinds of stuff in the past? Did you have to debate with a specific black person to learn about racism?

 

[Citizen66]

Well I'm sure you have taught yourself about all kinds of stuff in the past? Did you have to debate with a specific black person to learn about racism?

Is discussing racism off bounds here?

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I'm starting to think this discussion would go a whole lot better if an actual trans woman wasn't here.

I'm sorry you feel that. I am very pleased you are here.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Is discussing racism off bounds here?

No. And neither is this discussion which we are actually having. I'll admit it is quite awkward and painful, but perhaps that is only to be expected given the relatively short time (compared to racism) that this stuff has been articulated.

 

[Citizen66]

No. And neither is this discussion which we are actually having. I'll admit it is quite awkward and painful, but perhaps that is only to be expected given the relatively short time (compared to racism) that this stuff has been articulated.

I only want to further my understanding. When I said earlier in the thread that I accept what gender people tell me they identify with I was told I'm being too binary. I'm more confused than when we started this discussion tbh.

 

[smokedout]

heres from the same page linked a few posts back:

Bahar has done nothing wrong, and everything right. Every screech coming from her detractors strengthens the case that white people must be excluded from BME safe spaces, and men must be excluded from women’s spaces, and that cis white men should basically be excluded from life generally.

worth pointing out this was linked to, but not actually posted on the IWW site

one at a time eh stavvers?

I don't want to get angry about this, I know that as she points out in the comments these are just "rhetoric, bombastic statements" commenting on "the directionality of structural violence" but fuck, in the context of where I'm from, and the people I've known and what's taking place now this stuff is just toxic. Lots of people whose lives are being demolished are coming into contact with the left for the first time, lots of them are cis white men, and this is what they might find? fuck this, not everyone lives in a fucking london liberal bubble, try coming out with this crap in a homeless shelter or on a northern housing estate and see how far you get. if your idea of politics is comments that would get you laughed at or lynched in most working class spaces then you need to have a big fucking think.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I only want to further my understanding. When I said earlier in the thread that I accept what gender people tell me they identify with I was told I'm being too binary. I'm more confused than when we started this discussion tbh.

Which post was that?

This one: http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...ficer-facing-sack.335058/page-8#post-13904851 ?