Fuck the Tory government

[jakethesnake]

So who does have a mandate from this election? Tory + UKIP got over 50% of the vote. It's clear what people have voted for, much as you and I and urban75 don't like it.

Freedom, democracy and so on are best thought of as continual rather than episodic... we are not free once every 5 years (when we vote) and then relinquish our voice and just accept whatever and do as we are told until the next election - in a true democracy we continually question and challenge those who would seek to rule us. Sorry for calling you a twat btw, I am very grumpy at the moment and it has made me unnecessarily rude.

 

[Santino]

Freedom, democracy and so on are best thought of as continual rather than episodic... we are not free once every 5 years (when we vote) and then relinquish our voice and just accept whatever and do as we are told until the next election - in a true democracy we continually question and challenge those who would seek to rule us. Sorry for calling you a twat btw, I am very grumpy at the moment and it has made me unnecessarily rude.

Probably is a twat though.

 

[smokedout]

So who does have a mandate from this election? Tory + UKIP got over 50% of the vote. It's clear what people have voted for, much as you and I and urban75 don't like it.

firstly why do you assume all the ex labour voters who went to ukip support the tories? if they did they would have voted tory.

secondly when the richest 20% of the country vote to attack the poorest 20% I'll fight against that and so should anyone else who isnt a twat, I couldn't give a fuck who claims to have a mandate

 

[cantsin]

Erg, idiots, this is how to make sure people don't listen to what your saying

ffs, young twits do it every time nowadays, it'll be cleaned off by today, spare us the am dram

 

[Artaxerxes]

ffs, young twits do it every time nowadays, it'll be cleaned off by today, spare us the am dram

Just had this argument mate, lets not start again (and I agree with you)

 

[cantsin]

Just had this argument mate, lets not start again (and I agree with you)

(fair enough, didn't get through the thread)

 

[ViolentPanda]

Putting aside your ignorance about the memorial, what's your point exactly? Are you trying to defend spraying 'fuck the tories' on it?

No-one sprayed "fuck the tories" on it, you armpit.
They sprayed "fuck Tory scum".
If you're going to pontificate (and Satan knows it's pretty much all you do), then at least get it right.

 

[ViolentPanda]

It's a lump of stone ffs.

Or is it bronze?

The sculpture itself is bronze, the plinth (which was what got sprayed) is stone, and come monday evening will have been cleaned by a conservator with no harm done.

 

[ViolentPanda]

AH - it was a dickish thing to do, but comparing it to swastikas on Mosques is fucking silly. Misplaced though it was, the 'fuck the Tories' was unrelated to the memorial, the memorial was just a surface (perhaps an 'official surface' but still just a surface). Swastikas on Mosques is aimed at the Mosque. Got it?

Hertford has a history of mis-comparing things. Ask him about Kristallnacht.

 

[ViolentPanda]

No one say Kristallnacht.

Damn! Wish I'd read that a minute sooner!

 

[Casually Red]

Freedom, democracy and so on are best thought of as continual rather than episodic... we are not free once every 5 years (when we vote) and then relinquish our voice and just accept whatever and do as we are told until the next election - in a true democracy we continually question and challenge those who would seek to rule us.

It's how that's done, and how effectively it's done which is the issue though . Protests not enough in my view . Not saying its your view either mind .

 

[Maharani]

It's how that's done, and how effectively it's done which is the issue though . Protests not enough in my view . Not saying its your view either mind .

So what more? Violent clashes with the police? I'm asking seriously; how do we get heard and make changes?

 

[Louis MacNeice]

So who does have a mandate from this election? Tory + UKIP got over 50% of the vote. It's clear what people have voted for, much as you and I and urban75 don't like it.

Only true if you think all Tory and UKIP voters want the same things...which is very very unlikely.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[Santino]

So what more? Violent clashes with the police? I'm asking seriously; how do we get heard and make changes?

Strikes. Protest against non-government targets like bankers, accountancy firms, newspapers - close their buildings down. Prevent evictions. Organise against bailiffs. Rent strikes.

 

[Andrew Hertford]

The sculpture itself is bronze, the plinth (which was what got sprayed) is stone, and come monday evening will have been cleaned by a conservator with no harm done.

"No harm done"? Are you mad? It's been pasted all over the media, the image will never go away.

Will you condemn the vandalising of a memorial to women? Or like pickman's model would you rather not say?

 

[Santino]

"No harm done"? Are you mad? It's been pasted all over the media, the image will never go away.

Will you condemn the vandalising of a memorial to women? Or like pickman's model would you rather not say?

What harm has been done?

Did you think that people who might otherwise have come to oppose the neo-liberal oligarchy through direct action and resistance have been put off it by that story?

 

[Artaxerxes]

What harm has been done?

Did you think that people who might otherwise have come to oppose the neo-liberal oligarchy through direct action and resistance have been put off it by that story?

Its not done em any favours thats for sure, makes it easier to dismiss the protesters as a bunch of troublemakers and ignorant yoofs

Can we end this now before we have another 6 pages of arguing?

 

[Andrew Hertford]

What harm has been done?

Did you think that people who might otherwise have come to oppose the neo-liberal oligarchy through direct action and resistance have been put off it by that story?

The what?? The harm is the insult to the women who served in WW2.

 

[Santino]

Yes, without that piece of graffiti, newspapers would have turned in thoughtful editorials about the good intentions and admirable spirit of the protesters.

 

[Santino]

The what?? The harm is the insult to the women who served in WW2.

How many of them have you spoken to about it?

 

[Pickman's model]

The what?? The harm is the insult to the women who served in WW2.

did they want that monument? do you think the soldiers who died in ww1 wanted the fucking cenotaph? do you think the cenotaph was universally welcomed and admired? tell you what, why don't you fuck off and we'll say no more about it.

 

[Pickman's model]

"No harm done"? Are you mad? It's been pasted all over the media, the image will never go away.

Will you condemn the vandalising of a memorial to women? Or like pickman's model would you rather not say?

i'd have quite happily offered my opinion to anyone who asked nicely but not to a posturing hectoring worthless piece of shit cunt like you

 

[Andrew Hertford]

did they want that monument? do you think the soldiers who died in ww1 wanted the fucking cenotaph? do you think the cenotaph was universally welcomed and admired? tell you what, why don't you fuck off and we'll say no more about it.

i'd have quite happily offered my opinion to anyone who asked nicely but not to a posturing hectoring worthless piece of shit cunt like you

Christ, you need a bit of anger management son.

All I did was point out that you were wrong about what the memorial is for and ask you if you condemned someone spraying graffiti on it. You obviously do not.

If you want to believe that the memorial about something that it isn't then go right ahead, no one's going to lose any sleep over it.

 

[Pickman's model]

Christ, you need a bit of anger management son.

i don't need any lectures from a patronising posturing worthless piece of shit about how to conduct myself.

You obviously do not.

you don't know whether i do or not because i haven't told you. so fuck off with your insinuations based on fuck all.

 

[Pickman's model]

If you want to believe that the memorial about something that it isn't then go right ahead, no one's going to lose any sleep over it.

you've been at great pains to show you know better than anyone what the inscriptions on the monument mean. i suspect you have been losing sleep over it. you're really something of a loser.

 

[ViolentPanda]

"No harm done"? Are you mad? It's been pasted all over the media, the image will never go away.

Given the context and content of my post, it was blatantly obvious to anyone who isn't an idiot that I meant that no harm was done to the physical substance of the memorial.

Which means that your post was written by an idiot.

Will you condemn the vandalising of a memorial to women? Or like pickman's model would you rather not say?

I'll happily condemn it, just as I'll happily condemn the sort of shithead who tries to catch people out with stupid questions like yours above.

 

[Spymaster]

What harm has been done?

I suppose that depends on the motivation of whoever did it.

If it was to express anger at the election result, it worked, but probably at the expense of the support of a lot of folk who may otherwise have sympathised with the scrawler.

If it was to garner anti-tory support, the action was about as appropriate as daubing "Fuck Cricket" on a statue of Mandela.

As far as misdirected anger is concerned it's pretty spectacular given that Downing Street, the MoD, the Foreign Office, the DoH, DWP, and even a fucking McDonalds were all within spitting distance!

 

[Pickman's model]

I suppose that depends on the motivation of whoever did it.

If it was to express anger at the election result, it worked, but probably at the expense of the support of a lot of folk who may otherwise have sympathised with the scrawler.

If it was to garner anti-tory support, the action was about as appropriate as daubing "Fuck Cricket" on a statue of Mandela.

As far as misdirected anger is concerned it's pretty spectacular given that Downing Street, the MoD, the DoH, DPP and even a fucking McDonalds were all within spitting distance!

i'm not so sure you're right

 

[Andrew Hertford]

i don't need any lectures from a patronising posturing worthless piece of shit about how to conduct myself.

you don't know whether i do or not because i haven't told you. so fuck off with your insinuations based on fuck all.

you've been at great pains to show you know better than anyone what the inscriptions on the monument mean. i suspect you have been losing sleep over it. you're really something of a loser.

The people who put up the memorial know what it was for. I quoted what they said, remember?

Your refusal to condemn the vandalising of a memorial to the women of WW2 speaks volumes.

 

[co-op]

"No harm done"? Are you mad? It's been pasted all over the media, the image will never go away.

It's funny what does go away sometimes though.

I mentioned upthread the defacing of the cenotaph in 2002 and the fact that no one was ever prosecuted for that despite a hysterical campaign by the Daily Mirror which included photos of all the perps, a campaign which was pulled abruptly after 2 days.

Several other posters have posted up photos of that event and by implication who did it (PKK etc) when actually the point is that that was the grafitting of Churchill's statue (which could make sense of why a Kurdish group would want to deface it), not the cenotaph.

Anyway I thought I'd check to see what was sprayed on the cenotaph so I've had a good long search for an image of that and it seems to have completely disappeared from the internet.

Funny that.

*puts on tinfoil helmet* - and I'm not taking it off til someone finds a photo...