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French Presidential elections

The constant use of 'identity' by those young FN supporters is kind of chilling. It's just something I completely don't understand but it's easier to swallow when it comes from older people who feel nostalgic for something they half remember as a simpler time.
 
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bimble said:
This surprises me. It says that Le Pen was far more attractive to young voters than older ones.
'Some 44 per cent of 18 to 24-year-olds backed the Front National leader, compared with 56 per cent who voted for centrist Emmanuel Macron, according to projections.The far-right Ms Le Pen secured more support among young voters than any other age group. By contrast, she was backed by just 20 per cent of over 65s.."
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I'm surprised you are surprised. Young people see absolutely no future for themselves and their friends under the current system. Given Macron is the candidate of the current system and Le Pen the change candidate it was inevitable that the FN would be popular amongst young people.

People of all ages - trapped in the deindustrialised areas, in dying towns and villages, where no-one they know has ever had a decent job, where they are ejected from the political economy, where their lives are firmly and always going downward - feel absolute rage and despair. Voting for the FN in those circumstances is an absolutely logical act for them.
 
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bimble said:
The constant use of 'identity' by those young FN supporters is kind of chilling. It's just something I completely don't understand but it's easier to swallow when it comes from older people who feel nostalgic for something they half remember as a simpler time.
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Perhaps it's the reverse. The over 65s were either children during the Nazi occupation, or were children of parents who lived through it. Middle aged folks will remember the vitriol of Le Pen senior.

It's no accident that religious and political extremists target young people, particularly those who feel disaffected, frustrated and alienated. They offer simple answers, an opportunity to "belong" to something and a promise that they can hit back at the "system," all of which are very appealing.

I think for many though, their loyalty to extremism fades with time and experience, when they realise the solutions aren't simple, perhaps begin to understand the cruelty of the movement, and the penny drops that they are just being selfishly used by leaders who only want to supplant the system to replace it with another unfair system, but one that benefits the leaders.

Hopefully enough younger people will wise up in time.
 
that Streeck artiicle makes the point on how 'populism' seems to have shifted into a dirty word in the mouths of liberals. What they mean is 'left and right, just as bad as each other'. We've seen a similar attitude on this very thread, ferrl meltdown hadley claiming that the 'hard left' were cheering on a fash win, co y'know, both as bad as each other. *link to horshoe theory*
 
RD2003 said:
But what have you got to say about the fact-yes, fact-that Macron will only continue along the road that sees Le Pen's support base (which would once have been a large part of the support base of socialism etc etc) grow further?
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Asked on Sky News what are Macron's key priorities, his spin doctor said straight away "liberalisation of the workforce/economy"

dynamite in such a volatile country at present
 
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copliker said:
Hot take from the white socialism fighting guinea pig pic spam person.
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Take it your childish comment is about me (although it was a different person who posted the article mentioning "white socialism" but who cares about accuracy, eh?) So, what's wrong with my post then? Do you not think extremists target disaffected, angry younger people? Do you think it's a good thing frustrated, angry younger people turn to fascism? Or do you prefer to play the man and ignore the ball, eh?
 
And yet Macron never balked at introducing ideas that were diametrically opposed to those of the populists. He championed the advantages of globalisation, while wishing to regulate it. He refused protectionism and the end of free trade. He called on us to be European in a reinvented Europe, to accept our share of immigration and to defend our secularism – that is, the protection by the state of the right of all to believe or not.

On the one hand he managed to convince people that it was important to liberate the country’s potential, create much better incentives for work, embrace entrepreneurship, free up markets, lower taxes, and give more autonomy to professors and school heads. And on the other hand, he said that it was vital to better protect the French by training them to do jobs in a new world, to focus the “welfare state” on those most in need, and to fight growing insecurity – both physical and material – with better teaching and more police officers.
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He really does sound like Blair Mk2, especially liberalising the economy, opening the borders, reforming welfare and creating academies.
 
treelover said:
He really does sound like Blair Mk2, especially liberalising the economy, opening the borders, reforming welfare and creating academies.
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Liberals clearly see his victory as the re-birth of their 'socially liberal economically neo-liberal politics'. The centre is back in the game etc etc. The electorate can now come to their senses and embrace choice, multi culturalism, growing economic competition for low paid work at home and from abroad, a bit more cultural capital here a bit more ecomomic freedom there, the warm glow of 'equality'.

In reality, it's the death throes of their politics and they have reached a level of delusion where they simply cannot see the wood for the trees.
 
http%3A%2F%2Fcom.ft.imagepublish.prod.s3.amazonaws.com%2F7620b686-33ab-11e7-bce4-9023f8c0fd2e

Link.

Interesting split of Right wing voters. About 10% of voters abstained but given all the groaning I'm slightly surprised that so many far left voters finally opted for the fairly Right wing Macron. I'm guessing they were older folk whose priority was blocking the FN at all costs.
 
CrabbedOne said:
http%3A%2F%2Fcom.ft.imagepublish.prod.s3.amazonaws.com%2F7620b686-33ab-11e7-bce4-9023f8c0fd2e

Link.

Interesting split of Right wing voters. About 10% of voters abstained but given all the groaning I'm slightly surprised that so many far left voters finally opted for the fairly Right wing Macron. I'm guessing they were older folk whose priority was blocking the FN at all costs.
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its paywalled. How are they defining far left btw?
 
DotCommunist said:
its paywalled. How are they defining far left btw?
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Wasn't for me.

I don't know what the FT meant by Far Left in a French context. Could be supporters of that milquetoast Mélenchon who did dither when faced by the rising FN. To me means the likes of the PCF but I may be showing my age there. There really aren't many of the old guard left.
 
DotCommunist said:
its paywalled. How are they defining far left btw?
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Self-defining, according to the article.

btw, with these paywalled FT articles, try clicking the link, then closing the window then clicking the link again. Not sure if it always works, but it just did for me.
 
Raheem said:
Self-defining, according to the article.

btw, with these paywalled FT articles, try clicking the link, then closing the window then clicking the link again. Not sure if it always works, but it just did for me.
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I think you are supposed to get two free articles a day with FT and after that paywall, but I always hit paywall with FT straight away. Maybe my browser needs an update or something...
 
belboid said:
that graphic doesn't take any account of those who chose not to vote. If you do, the proportion of those 'far leftists' supporting Le Pen drops below the proportion of 'leaning right' voters and non-voters. A tad misleading
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Perhaps, though have not seem any detailed data to support that. Left voter abstentions do not seem to have been higher than on the right. Lefties do tend to forget part of conservative France also deeply distrusts the FN who have been opportunistically all over the map with "conservative" policies in the past couple of decades.

Given the groaning I was expecting numbers on the "Far Left" to be far more like those for "Right" voters. Even the Right vote for the FN also looks very equivocal; many went for the right wing normalcy of Macron instead. It seems too many got sensibly scared about what anything approaching an FN win could mean.
 
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