Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Feeling like I am doomed to live in suburbia forever

I'm interested by this (and not aiming this at you in particular but from previous conversations I think have a rough idea of the area that you live in). I grew up just outside the M25 in Hertfordshire and now live slightly further outside the M25 in Surrey. I wouldn't consider anywhere in zones 1–6 suburban to me they are urban and I grew up/live in suburbia. I suspect the definitions end up being very subjective.

From the perspective of growing up on the zone 3 / 4 boundary in SE London I'd (politely and respectfully) disagree with you - I'd regard 'suburbia' as (roughly) zones 4 to 6. outside that is 'the country' or 'the home counties' where you can (largely, and to an ever diminishing extent) you can see the gap between one place and another.

although the boundaries don't quite match - cudham (for example) is in the london borough of bromley and doesn't look or feel like 'the suburbs' from where i'm sitting, but it's hard to see where crayford / erith (london borough of bexley) ends and dartford (kent) starts.

…whereas for me, there are areas of Brixton I’d consider suburban to Brixton Town Centre. Same with other parts of London that are kinda like their own little defined town.

yes. many towns and villages in london were there when 'london' was just the 'square mile', and now they have overlapped a bit. some towns (for one reason or another) stayed more of a self contained town than a commuter suburb for longer than others, some of the suburbs are clearly a suburb of one of the towns, some are villages that have got absorbed in to towns (or just in to the suburban sprawl - where i grew up is somewhere between lewisham / catford / eltham / bromley, but not really quite big enough to have much of an identity of its own) some suburbs only exist because a railway line got built through them and a suburb grew up round a station, or because the LCC built a council estate on what was then green fields in the 1920s / 30s.

and just where one london 'town' starts and ends is subjective and changes over time - brixton's one of the prime examples of that, where 40 years ago, people (or at least estate agents) would try and sell much of it as clapham / norwood but maybe not so much now...
 
A village pub is essential for me, I was a bit disappointed that one out of the two had closed before I moved here, but delighted to discover three micro-pubs had opened up instead.

Well, one is more of a cafe during the day, but turns into a pub from early evening.
Best of both worlds
 
As aged and woolly, I find that suburbia is suiting quite well. There's a lot of fields and farmers about, so it's not all endless sprawl.

Dublin and London were great when younger, but they'd destroy this self now.
 
I’m terrified in the countryside that a farmer is going to shoot me or I’ll get eaten by a cow. Horses for courses, I guess!
You know cows are herbivores right?
I lived in London for many years and was never scared but admittedly I was much younger and the thought of being attacked never crossed my mind. As it didn’t when I lived elsewhere. My daughter and I happily walked through a park in the dark in Malvern this evening and didn’t give it a second thought. We felt completely safe. Whereas if I get the train home at night I will get an Uber from the station rather than walk the ten minutes home in the dark. I don’t need you to tell me how to feel thanks. 👍
As a father of three girls I've always felt far less worried about bringing them up here than I suspect I would have felt bringing them up in an inner city. OK it's impossible to not worry and bad things still happen in small towns but there isn't the worry of random violence that you get in big places.
The youngest one is away at Uni at the moment and no matter how much I tell myself she's careful and sensible the odd worry sometimes surfaces and has to be suppressed.
She loves the Uni life by the way.
If someone wants to live in London then good luck to them but I wouldn't change it for what I have unless I was mega rich in which case I would have a penthouse in Docklands and a mansion in the countryside.
 
Terminology can be a funny one; to me, London's a city that's very much made up of many different suburbs that have all grown in to one non-homogeneous whole (as opposed to "metroland" suburbia). If city life's for you, and it is for me, then you have a lot of choice on your pick of poison in the big smoke. IMHO the places that started off as towns or villages in their own right have very much retained that feeling of self-containment (story's posts on Brixton are a perfect example), new build estates (e.g. Docklands or Greenwich) feel a helluva lot more sterile and isolated to me. Some of the "glue" land between the suburban town centres has the same feeling; a bunch of identikit cul-de-sacs sandwidged between two bypasses, and precious little other "town" infrastructure.

I live in crystal palace in zone 3 - at one point dubbed "the clean air suburb". Still feels like a town with a good selection of shops, pubs, restaurants, etc. Lots of parks dotted around, and lots of trees even where there aren't parks. A very electic mix of people. Good transport links in to different bits of central for work and for play. Great views. Lots of stuff going on, loads of local history to dive in to if that's your thing. All of this within walking distance so getting by without a car is very, very easy. It's what I consider a London suburban life as opposed to suburbia.

Buying anywhere in London isn't for the faint hearted though (although the mania has spread far and wide to commuter towns and probably beyond as well now). It took me ten years of saving, an inheritance and a lucky investment to get my foot on the property ladder. These days you probably want to have at least 100k in your back pocket if you're looking to be able to buy a half-decent gaff for two. Kensington? Likely ten times that.

The overwhelming majority of my colleagues, young and old, live out in the home counties and commute; most of them love it, and can't understand why I prefer living in the city (although a big part of that "can't understand" boils down to cost). Their shops are a 15min drive away and they only have supermarkets and chain stores. They can't stay out late on a work do or cab it home because the last train is at 21:42 and it's £100+ quid for a taxi. They spend 5k+ on their season tickets every year and still have to pay extra for the tube (whereas I pay ~2k p.a. to get access to everything within zone 3). None of these places feel significantly different from the town I grew up in and was desperate to get away from.

On a purely monetary basis, there's plenty of places I can't afford to live (and frequently wouldn't want to live there anyway). If I was to somehow win the euromillions without buying a ticket then probably my main mansion would be one of those incredible Georgian townhouses in Bloomsbury overlooking some square or other. I lived in one as a student and, even thought it was wholly decked out in drab magnolia, cracked,stained formica, and burnt toast, they're incredible spaces inside.

My fantasy is Kensington because that is where I travel through whenever I get the National Express home. I imagine I am going out for dinner in Kensington with the locals in their sparkling cafes. I used to spend a fair amount of time in Kensington a few years ago and it is quite homely to me even if I’ve never had a home there.

My patner worked in Kensington for several years so it was often used as a meeting/socialising point. Whilst there were certainly bits of it that were wholly vilely rich trash through and through, there were still plenty of bits that felt like any of part of London (although almost always more spenny) with functional shops, decent pubs, etc. I still wouldn't live there because things like access to gardens or parks, or even just decent living space, are impossible unless you're a millionaire, and there are other areas of London that are far better value for money for the sorts of things I'm interested in. Granted, I don't know it well enough to know any of the people but Kensington certainly has a (likely deserved) reputation for housing the Tarquin's and Xanthe's of the world. You're right though in that certain parts of it really are homey. Just usually very, very expensively so.

I totally get what you’re saying though and in reality I’ll never have the 10 million pounds I would need for a Central West London flat. There is no way I would be able to buy in London right now by myself. If I coupled up in the next couple of years then it’s something I could consider...

You may not see it this way - and I can't guess as to your age or exact circumstances - but "not being able to buy in London" in your situation sounds like an advantage. Finding some digs is the perfect place to start exploring the various areas, assuming you've got a strong enough stomach for the "seppuku sounds more palatable" rental market and/or house shares; it's the ideal way to have an excuse to get a feel for an area prior to your impending millionaire fantasies. Personally I wouldn't consider to committing to anything as bonkers as a house purchase in London without at least having lived there for a few years prior.

I moved to Brixton in 2000 (off the back of following some friends who moved to Camberwell the year previously, although their was a proper Withnail & I setup) - it was dirt cheap back then and far more "edgy" than it feels to me now, with too many of the original locals ground down in to coffee beans - but I don't hold out any illusions about me being one of the early waves of gentrification, and thus partially responsible for its fall from grace. I'd still like to live there (so many beautiful buildings!), but it's again become one of those fantastically overpriced places that's squeezing out its lifeblood; too much of a destination suburb rather than a living one.

(I say this as an out-of-touch ex-Brixtoner that's not spent significant time there for over a decade. It's heartening to read the experiences of people like story who still live there and still know where the spirit's still alive)

our childcare arrangements

This presumably can significantly quite complicate things...? I don't have any kids so I can't really relate but... the primary reason for moving out(wards) of London IME has always been "we've got a kid now, we need more space and we can't afford it in X so we need to move to Y". Childcare is also an expense that'll frequently loosen my eyebrows when I hear of it. If both parents were working, people spending £1000 a month on a nursery or a childminder wasn't uncommon five years ago; I imagine it's far, far worse now.

That said, wouldn't mind retiring to a flat in the Barbican.

Not only did I work next to it for ~6 years, I've also stayed at one of the flats in the Barbican towers (it was company-owned and offered up to those of us doing weekend work). Whilst I absolutely love the architecture, I'm still not sure I'd like to live there - it felt too much of an enclave. The Barbican's the only part of the City that's got any real life to it at all (as well as the nearby Peabody estate and around whitecross street being one of the few places where people actually live), and even that's a tad tenuous. I find the nooks and crannies of nearby Clerkenwell to be far more homey.
 
very sorry to read that. here in NYC there is an active tenants' interest lobby and there has been for a century. my own tenancy is on a non-market program written into the NYS consitution (a recent challenge by landlords was dismissed by the US supreme court). my tenancy almost cannot be terminated. for market properties, the most recent development is: good-cause-eviction



i have from time to time wondered about living elsewhere than NYC, and then i wonder if i've lost my mind.
You haven't, never been to the US but I believe the situation there will be very similar.

One thing it's easy to forget is that outside of London the competition for public sector jobs is less intense with a knock on effect of the quality of service especially felt in the NHS. My wife walked into NHS admin jobs down here on the South Coast she would never have got close to in London and that's just admin. Clinical, especially Primary Care, can be absurdly bad and local government and its services has levels of cronyism and corruption that would put most developing world nations to shame.

I live less than 100 metres from the sea and 300 metres from the centre of a very large south coast town but would swap that for virtually anywhere back in London if I had the money to return. Pollution is off the scale with idiots burning wood, there is non existent street cleaning, shocking levels of homelessness and poverty, violent crime levels are very high, there's blatant open dealing from corner shops run for that sole purpose and it's basically a feral dump with certain corner shops getting robbed at least every other month.

London is a country I like, Britain less so.
 
I want to move back to Spain, I get very homesick for it even now. When I do I'd like to live in Almuñecar or Motril, both of which are very nice, but I'd love to live in the centre of Málaga. I love city life.

I love easy access to sports, galleries, museums, theatres. Now I'm not working it would be great to take full advantage of being close to everything.
 
Buying anywhere in London isn't for the faint hearted though (although the mania has spread far and wide to commuter towns and probably beyond as well now). It took me ten years of saving, an inheritance and a lucky investment to get my foot on the property ladder. These days you probably want to have at least 100k in your back pocket if you're looking to be able to buy a half-decent gaff for two. Kensington? Likely ten times that.

On a purely monetary basis, there's plenty of places I can't afford to live (and frequently wouldn't want to live there anyway). If I was to somehow win the euromillions without buying a ticket then probably my main mansion would be one of those incredible Georgian townhouses in Bloomsbury overlooking some square or other. I lived in one as a student and, even thought it was wholly decked out in drab magnolia, cracked,stained formica, and burnt toast, they're incredible spaces inside.

You may not see it this way - and I can't guess as to your age or exact circumstances - but "not being able to buy in London" in your situation sounds like an advantage. Finding some digs is the perfect place to start exploring the various areas, assuming you've got a strong enough stomach for the "seppuku sounds more palatable" rental market and/or house shares; it's the ideal way to have an excuse to get a feel for an area prior to your impending millionaire fantasies. Personally I wouldn't consider to committing to anything as bonkers as a house purchase in London without at least having lived there for a few years prior.

This presumably can significantly quite complicate things...? I don't have any kids so I can't really relate but... the primary reason for moving out(wards) of London IME has always been "we've got a kid now, we need more space and we can't afford it in X so we need to move to Y". Childcare is also an expense that'll frequently loosen my eyebrows when I hear of it. If both parents were working, people spending £1000 a month on a nursery or a childminder wasn't uncommon five years ago; I imagine it's far, far worse now.
Hi there, thank you for your response. I will have £50k cash in a few months’ time but can’t move to London yet. I have to stay in the far away suburbs for childcare purposes in the immediate future. This might change in a couple of years if various employment things change.

I lived in London for around 15 years prior to having a child. Moved out for the reasons you state above. I never had any kind of security of living arrangements in London so it’s not like I gave up a place to live. I didn’t “live anywhere” in London despite working centrally every day.

Your Bloomsbury Georgian townhouse fantasy is a lot like my Kensington one. I know it’s never going to be real, but I’m at a stage where I need to have these wild fantasies to get away from the drudge of reality and magic up alternatives. The more I focus on something possibly unattainable in a rational world, the more I come up with ways of breaking those barriers down and achieving more with my life.
 
The older I get, the more I want to get away from a crowded London.

Moved to the country back in 2007, it was lovely at first. Thatched cottages and a 14th Century church opposite with tourists walking up and down taking pictures of the street.

But ultimately it was dull, dull, dull. Moved back to East London in 2016 and loved it.

Eight years of London and the aggression and rudeness of people is slowly getting to me now.

Fuck knows what a good balance is. :confused:
Brighton?

Lots of ex-Londoners live here for the sea air, the Downs and the weirdness!

London is no more than an hour away by train (though I can't vouch for their reliability).

I live in Kemp Town and have now been here 30 years this month. I've never wanted to leave as everything I need is either within walking or cycling distance.

Remember Nige's anti-immigration riots this Summer? Something similar was planned here - 4 pathetic protestors turned up, over 1000 people turned out to oppose them:

1731826771292.png

1731826800004.png

1731826822181.png

I love it here!😍
 
Brighton?

Lots of ex-Londoners live here for the sea air, the Downs and the weirdness!

London is no more than an hour away by train (though I can't vouch for their reliability).

I live in Kemp Town and have now been here 30 years this month. I've never wanted to leave as everything I need is either within walking or cycling distance.

Remember Nige's anti-immigration riots this Summer? Something similar was planned here - 4 pathetic protestors turned up, over 1000 people turned out to oppose them:

View attachment 451343

View attachment 451344

View attachment 451345

I love it here!😍

This is true. Brighton is a good place to live, love and linger.
 
I've lived in London since 1989 , mostly zone 2 , luckily we can afford to live here (a benefit of being old) and whilst I'm still working (mrs21 has retired) we'll stay in Hackney. Rarely go out in the West End anymore (although had a decent night out in Soho recently) happily staying local. We are thinking more & more about life after London but can't decide on where that would be.
 
I live close to a city centre but in my city, that's not the expensive bit. But it's quite 'buzzy' which I like.

All the bad things happen in the suburbs here. I've lived in the suburbs. It was weird and stressful. I can imagine how kidnappings and shootings happen there, it has a bit of a tinder box quality. Whereas the city centre is an absolute mix of people doing all sorts of different things.
 
I would hate to live in a village now, we live at the end of a row of 12 houses, I can see the North sea and the Bellrock lighthouse(some people think this is ace for some reason), I'm between Aberdeen and Dundee so cities are there if needed.
I like not having to interact with people on a daily basis, I can't be bothered with it anymore :)

London is way too busy for me and I like to be able to breathe proper fresh air.
Yesterday I went for a long-ish walk around Walthamstow & Hackney Marshes, for about an hour I didn't cross a road, it's a big part of the reasons I've stayed in London.
 
Have always liked town life (live in the centre of a very big town) but in recent years have yearned to be out of it...i love my flat but the town centre is becoming a shit hole....have watched my town deteriorate over many years and it's now a sad, filthy, rubbish strewn and fairly violent place....i totally get where moomoo is coming from....am fed up of the constant racket....my youngest son has just moved to a big village on the outskirts and the contrast is marked but i am stuck here so will just have to get on with it.
 
Terminology can be a funny one; to me, London's a city that's very much made up of many different suburbs that have all grown in to one non-homogeneous whole (as opposed to "metroland" suburbia). If city life's for you, and it is for me, then you have a lot of choice on your pick of poison in the big smoke. IMHO the places that started off as towns or villages in their own right have very much retained that feeling of self-containment (story's posts on Brixton are a perfect example), new build estates (e.g. Docklands or Greenwich) feel a helluva lot more sterile and isolated to me. Some of the "glue" land between the suburban town centres has the same feeling; a bunch of identikit cul-de-sacs sandwidged between two bypasses, and precious little other "town" infrastructure.

I live in crystal palace in zone 3 - at one point dubbed "the clean air suburb". Still feels like a town with a good selection of shops, pubs, restaurants, etc. Lots of parks dotted around, and lots of trees even where there aren't parks. A very electic mix of people. Good transport links in to different bits of central for work and for play. Great views. Lots of stuff going on, loads of local history to dive in to if that's your thing. All of this within walking distance so getting by without a car is very, very easy. It's what I consider a London suburban life as opposed to suburbia.

Buying anywhere in London isn't for the faint hearted though (although the mania has spread far and wide to commuter towns and probably beyond as well now). It took me ten years of saving, an inheritance and a lucky investment to get my foot on the property ladder. These days you probably want to have at least 100k in your back pocket if you're looking to be able to buy a half-decent gaff for two. Kensington? Likely ten times that.

The overwhelming majority of my colleagues, young and old, live out in the home counties and commute; most of them love it, and can't understand why I prefer living in the city (although a big part of that "can't understand" boils down to cost). Their shops are a 15min drive away and they only have supermarkets and chain stores. They can't stay out late on a work do or cab it home because the last train is at 21:42 and it's £100+ quid for a taxi. They spend 5k+ on their season tickets every year and still have to pay extra for the tube (whereas I pay ~2k p.a. to get access to everything within zone 3). None of these places feel significantly different from the town I grew up in and was desperate to get away from.

On a purely monetary basis, there's plenty of places I can't afford to live (and frequently wouldn't want to live there anyway). If I was to somehow win the euromillions without buying a ticket then probably my main mansion would be one of those incredible Georgian townhouses in Bloomsbury overlooking some square or other. I lived in one as a student and, even thought it was wholly decked out in drab magnolia, cracked,stained formica, and burnt toast, they're incredible spaces inside.



My patner worked in Kensington for several years so it was often used as a meeting/socialising point. Whilst there were certainly bits of it that were wholly vilely rich trash through and through, there were still plenty of bits that felt like any of part of London (although almost always more spenny) with functional shops, decent pubs, etc. I still wouldn't live there because things like access to gardens or parks, or even just decent living space, are impossible unless you're a millionaire, and there are other areas of London that are far better value for money for the sorts of things I'm interested in. Granted, I don't know it well enough to know any of the people but Kensington certainly has a (likely deserved) reputation for housing the Tarquin's and Xanthe's of the world. You're right though in that certain parts of it really are homey. Just usually very, very expensively so.



You may not see it this way - and I can't guess as to your age or exact circumstances - but "not being able to buy in London" in your situation sounds like an advantage. Finding some digs is the perfect place to start exploring the various areas, assuming you've got a strong enough stomach for the "seppuku sounds more palatable" rental market and/or house shares; it's the ideal way to have an excuse to get a feel for an area prior to your impending millionaire fantasies. Personally I wouldn't consider to committing to anything as bonkers as a house purchase in London without at least having lived there for a few years prior.

I moved to Brixton in 2000 (off the back of following some friends who moved to Camberwell the year previously, although their was a proper Withnail & I setup) - it was dirt cheap back then and far more "edgy" than it feels to me now, with too many of the original locals ground down in to coffee beans - but I don't hold out any illusions about me being one of the early waves of gentrification, and thus partially responsible for its fall from grace. I'd still like to live there (so many beautiful buildings!), but it's again become one of those fantastically overpriced places that's squeezing out its lifeblood; too much of a destination suburb rather than a living one.

(I say this as an out-of-touch ex-Brixtoner that's not spent significant time there for over a decade. It's heartening to read the experiences of people like story who still live there and still know where the spirit's still alive)



This presumably can significantly quite complicate things...? I don't have any kids so I can't really relate but... the primary reason for moving out(wards) of London IME has always been "we've got a kid now, we need more space and we can't afford it in X so we need to move to Y". Childcare is also an expense that'll frequently loosen my eyebrows when I hear of it. If both parents were working, people spending £1000 a month on a nursery or a childminder wasn't uncommon five years ago; I imagine it's far, far worse now.



Not only did I work next to it for ~6 years, I've also stayed at one of the flats in the Barbican towers (it was company-owned and offered up to those of us doing weekend work). Whilst I absolutely love the architecture, I'm still not sure I'd like to live there - it felt too much of an enclave. The Barbican's the only part of the City that's got any real life to it at all (as well as the nearby Peabody estate and around whitecross street being one of the few places where people actually live), and even that's a tad tenuous. I find the nooks and crannies of nearby Clerkenwell to be far more homey.
Exactly right on the terminology. I've always taken the view (being in Brixton for 30 years) that I live in a suburb but it isn't surburbia.
 
I 'think' I live in suburbia. I'm five minutes walk from a train that takes me 15 minutes to get to central London, but also five minutes jog to a park that leads to woodlands and countryside that (if I'm careful with the route) takes me all the way to the coast without reall hitting a road.
My priorities are different from when I lived in central London. I mostly work from home and have a teenage daughter. I don't crawl home at 4am, I'm already in bed by 10.
I can't afford to move again. This is my home and this is where I will stay. I'm also very gradually building up a small group of local friends, a 'community' if you will. It's quite nice.
 
I've lived in London all my life in 'inner London boroughs'. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else despite the problems that exist. I like the diversity. Even if i had the money I wouldn't want to live in Central London. I get the impression that the rich people who can afford to live there would not like to have me as a neighbour.
I don't get out much now, but it would be easy enough to get to Central London if I wanted to.
 
I live close to a city centre but in my city, that's not the expensive bit. But it's quite 'buzzy' which I like.

All the bad things happen in the suburbs here. I've lived in the suburbs. It was weird and stressful. I can imagine how kidnappings and shootings happen there, it has a bit of a tinder box quality. Whereas the city centre is an absolute mix of people doing all sorts of different things.

Yes, knowing your city that's very much my impression. Being a port, it's a bit lopsided so the 'centre' is next to the sea and has loads going on and some interesting nooks and crannies. The recent high-profile nasty stuff happened miles away from that.

As for me, we went out to a country pub last night. Brilliant place, but I just don't know how people live in the countryside. It freaks me out. I'm more than happy to go and visit but always glad to get back to urban life at the end of the day.

We'd always lived right in the centre of our small city but moved seven years ago to what felt to me at the time like suburbia but really isn't. It's a residential area of Victorian terraced housing with a great local shopping street and its own railway station just 10 minutes walk from the city centre. Get on my bike 10 minutes in the opposite direction and I'm out in the country. Suits me just fine and I can't imagine we'll move from this house in a hurry.
 
I live close to a city centre but in my city, that's not the expensive bit. But it's quite 'buzzy' which I like.

All the bad things happen in the suburbs here. I've lived in the suburbs. It was weird and stressful. I can imagine how kidnappings and shootings happen there, it has a bit of a tinder box quality. Whereas the city centre is an absolute mix of people doing all sorts of different things.

Your city's amazing, BB1 now in her third year there and every time we go down we just feel at peace, loads of nice places to eat and drink, such friendly people everywhere, great views from the city centre, amazing countryside just outside. A number of our friends are heading that way for retirement etc., BB1is headed to Scotland for her Masters, but think she'll be back with you once that's done, we may consider it too once BB2 flies the nest.

But for now, where we are is our ideal, small enough to feel safe, not twee at all (even though people think it should be), lots of nice pubs, could do with so more eateries, (in fact we're getting two more good ones early next year), big enough that there's enough shops to meet your daily needs, small enough so that you nearly always bump in to someone you know in the high street. 10 mins to Guildford for bigger shopping / nights out, 45 mins to Waterloo, last train back from London is around 12, that's late enough for me these days, on the rare occasion need later there is later to Guildford or much later to Woking then a cab ride, so all works. Add to that the amazing countryside right on our doorstep, can cycle from my front door and be off road in under 10 mins then do a 40 mile off-road loop (or any number of 40 mile loops) and back again, really very lucky to live here.
 
Terminology can be a funny one; to me, London's a city that's very much made up of many different suburbs that have all grown in to one non-homogeneous whole (as opposed to "metroland" suburbia). If city life's for you, and it is for me, then you have a lot of choice on your pick of poison in the big smoke. IMHO the places that started off as towns or villages in their own right have very much retained that feeling of self-containment (story's posts on Brixton are a perfect example), new build estates (e.g. Docklands or Greenwich) feel a helluva lot more sterile and isolated to me. Some of the "glue" land between the suburban town centres has the same feeling; a bunch of identikit cul-de-sacs sandwidged between two bypasses, and precious little other "town" infrastructure.

I live in crystal palace in zone 3 - at one point dubbed "the clean air suburb". Still feels like a town with a good selection of shops, pubs, restaurants, etc. Lots of parks dotted around, and lots of trees even where there aren't parks. A very electic mix of people. Good transport links in to different bits of central for work and for play. Great views. Lots of stuff going on, loads of local history to dive in to if that's your thing. All of this within walking distance so getting by without a car is very, very easy. It's what I consider a London suburban life as opposed to suburbia.

Buying anywhere in London isn't for the faint hearted though (although the mania has spread far and wide to commuter towns and probably beyond as well now). It took me ten years of saving, an inheritance and a lucky investment to get my foot on the property ladder. These days you probably want to have at least 100k in your back pocket if you're looking to be able to buy a half-decent gaff for two. Kensington? Likely ten times that.

The overwhelming majority of my colleagues, young and old, live out in the home counties and commute; most of them love it, and can't understand why I prefer living in the city (although a big part of that "can't understand" boils down to cost). Their shops are a 15min drive away and they only have supermarkets and chain stores. They can't stay out late on a work do or cab it home because the last train is at 21:42 and it's £100+ quid for a taxi. They spend 5k+ on their season tickets every year and still have to pay extra for the tube (whereas I pay ~2k p.a. to get access to everything within zone 3). None of these places feel significantly different from the town I grew up in and was desperate to get away from.

On a purely monetary basis, there's plenty of places I can't afford to live (and frequently wouldn't want to live there anyway). If I was to somehow win the euromillions without buying a ticket then probably my main mansion would be one of those incredible Georgian townhouses in Bloomsbury overlooking some square or other. I lived in one as a student and, even thought it was wholly decked out in drab magnolia, cracked,stained formica, and burnt toast, they're incredible spaces inside.



My patner worked in Kensington for several years so it was often used as a meeting/socialising point. Whilst there were certainly bits of it that were wholly vilely rich trash through and through, there were still plenty of bits that felt like any of part of London (although almost always more spenny) with functional shops, decent pubs, etc. I still wouldn't live there because things like access to gardens or parks, or even just decent living space, are impossible unless you're a millionaire, and there are other areas of London that are far better value for money for the sorts of things I'm interested in. Granted, I don't know it well enough to know any of the people but Kensington certainly has a (likely deserved) reputation for housing the Tarquin's and Xanthe's of the world. You're right though in that certain parts of it really are homey. Just usually very, very expensively so.



You may not see it this way - and I can't guess as to your age or exact circumstances - but "not being able to buy in London" in your situation sounds like an advantage. Finding some digs is the perfect place to start exploring the various areas, assuming you've got a strong enough stomach for the "seppuku sounds more palatable" rental market and/or house shares; it's the ideal way to have an excuse to get a feel for an area prior to your impending millionaire fantasies. Personally I wouldn't consider to committing to anything as bonkers as a house purchase in London without at least having lived there for a few years prior.

I moved to Brixton in 2000 (off the back of following some friends who moved to Camberwell the year previously, although their was a proper Withnail & I setup) - it was dirt cheap back then and far more "edgy" than it feels to me now, with too many of the original locals ground down in to coffee beans - but I don't hold out any illusions about me being one of the early waves of gentrification, and thus partially responsible for its fall from grace. I'd still like to live there (so many beautiful buildings!), but it's again become one of those fantastically overpriced places that's squeezing out its lifeblood; too much of a destination suburb rather than a living one.

(I say this as an out-of-touch ex-Brixtoner that's not spent significant time there for over a decade. It's heartening to read the experiences of people like story who still live there and still know where the spirit's still alive)



This presumably can significantly quite complicate things...? I don't have any kids so I can't really relate but... the primary reason for moving out(wards) of London IME has always been "we've got a kid now, we need more space and we can't afford it in X so we need to move to Y". Childcare is also an expense that'll frequently loosen my eyebrows when I hear of it. If both parents were working, people spending £1000 a month on a nursery or a childminder wasn't uncommon five years ago; I imagine it's far, far worse now.



Not only did I work next to it for ~6 years, I've also stayed at one of the flats in the Barbican towers (it was company-owned and offered up to those of us doing weekend work). Whilst I absolutely love the architecture, I'm still not sure I'd like to live there - it felt too much of an enclave. The Barbican's the only part of the City that's got any real life to it at all (as well as the nearby Peabody estate and around whitecross street being one of the few places where people actually live), and even that's a tad tenuous. I find the nooks and crannies of nearby Clerkenwell to be far more homey.

Top post,

Re the Barbican, the 2021 census found the residential population of the City of London* to be 8,618! Whereas the daytime population is around 330,000. That's got to be one of the biggest disparities anywhere int he word.

*The Barbican, the Golden Lane and Middlesex Lane social housing run by the Corporation and presumably a few millionaire / corporate flats in commercial buildings, and those few homeless people they haven't chased out yet.
 
I've lived in London since 1989 , mostly zone 2 , luckily we can afford to live here (a benefit of being old) and whilst I'm still working (mrs21 has retired) we'll stay in Hackney. Rarely go out in the West End anymore (although had a decent night out in Soho recently) happily staying local. We are thinking more & more about life after London but can't decide on where that would be.
Sell your cardboard box
and buy a castle from the jocks
 
Re the Barbican, the 2021 census found the residential population of the City of London* to be 8,618! Whereas the daytime population is around 330,000. That's got to be one of the biggest disparities anywhere int he word.

*The Barbican, the Golden Lane and Middlesex Lane social housing run by the Corporation and presumably a few millionaire / corporate flats in commercial buildings, and those few homeless people they haven't chased out yet.

I think the figure I was aware of was the City having about 5,000 residents - probably the figure from the last census - which in my head was a figure that'd fit entirely within the Barbican and its immediate environs (although there are handfuls of flats dotted about the City proper but I imagine those are disproportionately even more pied a terre's than the Barbican). I dare say it's different if you actually live there but it still felt like a bit of a ghost town at the weekend.

Maybe with the change left over from my townhouse in Bloomsbury I'll get a place in the Barbican and find out.
 
I agree the suburbs/suburbia difference. I live in zone 4 London and I don’t feel like I live in “suburbia”. It is multicultural, people who grew up here but also lots of people who have moved here, things happen, businesses open and shut, you can get to loads of other little places/suburbs very quickly, and can get on a train and be in central London in 15 mins. Everything also within walking distance.

I grew up in a small village on the edge of a small town, and spent my formative time in the larger town nearby. The thought of knowing everyone in the local pub and having to drive 20 minutes to the one cinema and all that sort of thing brings me out in a cold sweat. I do feel if I moved to proper suburbia I would just be waiting to die. Yes I love the countryside, walks and nice views but… then what. Maybe I’m just scarred by my own childhood.

The anonymity and opportunity of London never gets old for me.
 
My brother and I grew up in the suburbs. Since I left home I've lived in cities. Newcastle, London and now back in Leicester. I love city life. My brother is the opposite and thinks of the suburbs as offering the best of both worlds. I think they offer neither.

I love being able to walk to restaurants, theatres etc.

The flip side is that the nursery my children attended, the primary school and the secondary school, none have any grass on which to play.

I feel like one of the problems with the suburbs is that the demographics are generally homogeneous. Generally the same income levels, generally families etc.

On my street in the city there are multitude of nationalities living here, a mixture of income levels, some families, some single people, some students. I think that is a lot more interesting.
 
My brother and I grew up in the suburbs. Since I left home I've lived in cities. Newcastle, London and now back in Leicester. I love city life. My brother is the opposite and thinks of the suburbs as offering the best of both worlds. I think they offer neither.

I love being able to walk to restaurants, theatres etc.

The flip side is that the nursery my children attended, the primary school and the secondary school, none have any grass on which to play.

I feel like one of the problems with the suburbs is that the demographics are generally homogeneous. Generally the same income levels, generally families etc.

On my street in the city there are multitude of nationalities living here, a mixture of income levels, some families, some single people, some students. I think that is a lot more interesting.
That's how I feel, too. London is a special case because the suburbs would be towns anywhere else. But here, the suburbs seem to be simmering hotbeds of resentments that have been going on for generations with no real amenities and very, very bored kids. And I found the expectation to be 'normal' very stifling, because we aren't, really.

The city centre (ish) in a small city has everything except, as you rightly say, school playing fields (that was a shock to someone who grew up in a leafy bit of the world!)
 
I grew up somewhere proper rural, spent most of my adult life in South London, and just over three years ago moved to Sheffield. It has a really good balance for what I need now, I can be in the centre in ten minutes or out in the peaks in the same time. There is some stuff you get in London that you can't get here (for me the sort of musical diversity you get at Cafe Oto) but not a lot tbh. It's a proper city with all that entails and you could live centrally pretty cheaply I think.
 
Ten minutes in a city now is enough to remind me why I don't ever want to live in one again and can't really cope with them apart from in very small doses.

Yesterday I was in Glasgow and I got lost in two shops, trapped in a supermarket, baffled by pedestrian crossings when I tried to use them and almost run over when I didn't. The buses were less reliable (smallish town buses are the worst for this ime though tbf) and when they didn't turn up there was no safety net of probably being able to share a taxi or get a lift from someone driving past. And the entire place felt like one giant retail park with the odd patch of housing dotted through it.
 
There is some stuff you get in London that you can't get here (for me the sort of musical diversity you get at Cafe Oto)

What sort of music you can see live is a great yardstick of a place for me. I grew up in a fair size town where bands did occasionally play, but the ones that did were very safe and mainstream and of zero interest to me. Only band I saw when I lived there were the Icicle Works, and that was mainly because of the convenience and the fact that some mates were going too rather than any great love of them.

The city I live in and have done for the last 30 years is 20 miles from the above town and the initial draw was that we could see as many bands as we wanted and there were independent record shops that catered for most of my obscure vinyl needs (but not all).

As the years have gone by my tastes and the music scene have changed. The loss of the university gig circuit was a major blow. I usually get to one or two gigs in my home city every year, but otherwise we invariably have to get the train to Bristol for the bands I like. The other thing that's changed is that it's not all about the cities anymore, so in my part of the world hipster enclave towns like Totnes and Falmouth now see the sort of acts that previously only would have played the big urban areas.
 
Ten minutes in a city now is enough to remind me why I don't ever want to live in one again and can't really cope with them apart from in very small doses.

Yesterday I was in Glasgow and I got lost in two shops, trapped in a supermarket, baffled by pedestrian crossings when I tried to use them and almost run over when I didn't. The buses were less reliable (smallish town buses are the worst for this ime though tbf) and when they didn't turn up there was no safety net of probably being able to share a taxi or get a lift from someone driving past. And the entire place felt like one giant retail park with the odd patch of housing dotted through it.
Generally speaking, we are an adaptable species. But, conversely, we are also creatures of habit and don't readily embrace change.

I think it's all about size and amenities. Ideally, you want to be able to get to everywhere reasonably quickly, have access to grocery stores/dentists/hospital without travelling miles by car, have a local Post Office, be on a major bus route and actually have gritters clear roads and pavements for the occasional snowfall!

Having local access to cinemas, theatres, music venues, museums and art galleries also matters if you still like going out and absorbing culture. Being in the suburbs can mean all of the above, but without the noise, aggression, litter and general aggravation of being right in the centre.

Kemp Town is a suburb of Brighton, still retains its village-y feel, you recognise regular faces, there's a seafront cycle path that takes you right into town and bus service every 5 minutes. It's not perfect, nowhere is; my only concern is whether I'll still be able to carry my bikes up and down the stairs when I'm 70 (I'm on the 3rd floor and there's no lift).
 
Back
Top Bottom