fascist infiltration of the left

[Groucho]

The BNP clearly have an interest in exagerating the 'prominant positions' these fascists were supposed to have attained in left-wing and anti-fascist organisations. Mostly these appear to have been locally elected positions. e.g. The founding conference of RESPECT was open to all comers but has been written up as if it was a meeting of leading representatives of the movement.

The BNP will be hoping for a paranoid over-reaction from the left. There is no need to give them any such satisfaction.

The SWP will certainly not be discussing internal security on an open site such as this one.

They will not have 'uncovered' anything earth-shattering. The organisations these people became involved in are open and democratic.

Commiserations to all comrades who may have rubbed shoulders with these individuals.

 

[fanciful]

<snip>

 

[Zonk]

Well that's just blown any element of suprise then.

Perhaps next time you should pm that information around for a whole load of different reasons .

 

[flimsier]

Zonk, what the fuck are you doing on this thread? That's the second useless post I've read from you (and I am only counting those on this thread).

 

[Zonk]

Giving you amateurs a little friendly advice.....but hey, you obviously know what your doing so I'll leave you to it.

 

[flimsier]

Yes ok mr expert.

 

[yozz]

You need to think again - which BNP members have been convicted of murder.

The BNP/Tyndal/Copelanl stuff is useless and you don't understand the chronology.

This is kiddy stuf.

David Copeland held joint membership of the BNP and the NSM. He killed a few only five years ago I believe.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

If you think they're going to announce them outside of their own membership, you clearly think they've learned nothing.

They'll sort their own ship out internally and ignore the embarrassment imo.

The SWP will have some kind of inquiry I'm sure, which they will keep to themselves. Damage limitation will be the main priority. They may well then give some kind of explanation to local UAF activists or whatever. But is UAF or RESPECT going to have an inquiry, independent of the SWP, into how these people got into positions of responsibility? I'd be pleasantly surprised.

 

[flimsier]

What positions of responsibility did they hold in UAF or RESPECT nigel? I haven't read of any. Have you?

They went to the founding conference of RESPECT, which as you know anyone could have.

So?

Or are you slinging mud for the sake of it again?

 

[layabout]

David Copeland held joint membership of the BNP and the NSM. He killed a few only five years ago I believe.

I heard his BNP membership had lapsed. However, if urbanrevolt is saying what he means, then he has more in common with Copeland than anyone else I have met.

 

[layabout]

I heard his BNP membership had lapsed. However, if urbanrevolt is saying what he means, then he has more in common with Copeland than anyone else I have met.

or means what he says even.......

 

[Nigel Irritable]

The original article (from the ever reliable fascists) claimed that one or both of these people had been on the local Respect steering committee, didn't it?

UAF and Respect should have their own inquiries into exactly what these people did in those organisations - from who they worked with to what ring rounds they were involved in. And who assigned them whatever jobs they had. Do you think that either organisation will?

 

[flimsier]

I already know some of what's happening, possibly wrongly. I've been asked not to post it on here.

If you were honest, you just want to find a way to slag off the SWP or UAF or RESPECT over this, same as virtually every thread you post on.

 

[flimsier]

They should not announce anything on here and you shouldn't be aware of what they do. That won't stop you deciding they have dealt with it wrongly.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

You are aware of some of what is happening - in the SWP or in the other organisations directly effected?

And why the hell shouldn't UAF or Respect be open about what they are doing about this? I already know why the SWP won't be. Are the people who bought Marxism tickets, and who therefore handed their details to these people entitled to know what is being done? Or the people who went to a UAF or Respect meeting and put their addresses on the attendence sheets?

 

[flimsier]

Because it's blatently stupid to tell people how they're going to stop it happening again.

Fucking hell. Have you turned into an utter imbecile?

 

[flimsier]

I like the fact that you are now announcing in your edit that these people saw various things when you have no idea if that is true or not.

Most dishonest.

Again.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

You seem to be unable to grasp that declaring that you are holding an investigation, contacting and warning people directly effected, telling those people what the results of your investigation has been and so on is not the same as announcing how you are going to stop future infiltration.

So again: is the investigation you are aware of an SWP one or one being carried out by one of the other groups concerned?

 

[flimsier]

Nigel, will you fucking read what I wrote.

I'm not getting into it. This is not a fucking game and this is an open website.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

What the fuck is your problem? Did you just not read the original article? One of these people was Respect's regional treasurer. That means he had access to membership lists at the very least. They were on the Marxism organisational team, for fuck's sake. That gives them access to the home addresses of any Marxism attendee who trusted the SWP enough to give it to them. That includes you in all probability.

The next question is what other ring rounds were they involved in? What other lists did they have access to?

And again, you haven't answered my question. Do you think that UAF or Respect will have a serious inquiry independently of the SWP?

 

[flimsier]

My problem is that you are desperate to slag off the SWP, or RESPECT, or UAF, at any opportunity. You seem to think that if the people don't post on here, or announce publicly what they are doing, that's enough for you to do so.

You are incapable of being critical about the original article.

Now, it wouldn't take a genius to work out that its very fucking likely they've (the SWP/ RESPECT/ whoever) answered that question - but they are not going to post it on here - neither are they going to tell you.

You're not the first to try and score points (JHE and Zonk for example) but you're probably the most unexpected. I even advised people in Manc to chat to people from this thread about what they will do - as I clearly had the wrong attitude.

You're just being a tosser.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

bolshieboy, are you on heavy medication?

Why is it liberals can't avoid ad hominem abuse?

 

[flimsier]

What the fuck is your problem? Did you just not read the original article? One of these people was Respect's regional treasurer. That means he had access to membership lists at the very least. They were on the Marxism organisational team, for fuck's sake. That gives them access to the home addresses of any Marxism attendee who trusted the SWP enough to give it to them. That includes you in all probability.

The next question is what other ring rounds were they involved in? What other lists did they have access to?

And again, you haven't answered my question. Do you think that UAF or Respect will have a serious inquiry independently of the SWP?

I've already told you I'm not getting into your 'question'. What the fuck has it got to do with you? You seem desperate to get this onto U75 and score some petty point.

All of yours above are wrong. But I'm not getting into it.

I don't think you'll ever hear of any inquiry. Rightly.

Now go and slag off RESPECT for something else.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

As for using this to have a dig at the SWP:

Any organisation can be infiltrated by fascists or state agents with time, energy and a bit of sense. I suspect that the same two would have found things more difficult in left wing groups that pay more attention to the political education of their members rather than encouraging mindless enthusiasm but that wouldn't have been insurmountable with a bit of dedication.

The telling question is what happens now as it would be for any organisation. And the wall of silence approach doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

People in every organisation on the British left bought tickets to Marxism. Does that mean that anyone who was trusting enough of the SWP to give their full address has now given it to the BNP? Isn't that a question that has to be answered openly?

How many people put their addresses on sign up sheets that these people then had access to?

Did they have access to membership lists of Respect or UAF as well as SWP ones?

 

[layabout]

I'm not getting into it. This is not a fucking game and this is an open website.

Thats a very good point.

I wouldn't expect anyone to post up the internal goings on of a party on a public messageboard, especially about such a sensitive issue.

 

[flimsier]

You dick. You'd prefer the SWP to openly discuss 'what happens now' in public less than 24 hours after the event is discovered.

And you slag them off for not doing so.

YOu really have lost it.

 

[flimsier]

As for using this to have a dig at the SWP:

Any organisation can be infiltrated by fascists or state agents with time, energy and a bit of sense. I suspect that the same two would have found things more difficult in left wing groups that pay more attention to the political education of their members but that wouldn't have been insurmountable.

The telling question is what happens now. And the wall of silence approach doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

The above post was replying to this idiotic one.

 

[layabout]

As for using this to have a dig at the SWP:

Any organisation can be infiltrated by fascists or state agents with time, energy and a bit of sense. I suspect that the same two would have found things more difficult in left wing groups that pay more attention to the political education of their members but that wouldn't have been insurmountable.

The telling question is what happens now. And the wall of silence approach doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

Nigel, you can't expect them to post security tacticts on an open messageboard, surely?

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Nigel, you can't expect them to post security tacticts on an open messageboard, surely?

Not when people like you you are hoping every piece of info these cunts have gained is spread as widely as possible.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Keep your temper under control, flimsier.

This section of the thread began when I asked if Respect and the UAF would be holding investigations independently of the SWP. I haven't got an answer, which is fair enough at the moment although not indefinitely.

If the only answer you have is "I don't know", then again fair enough. You were the one who claimed that you had some knowledge of what was going on.

As I said above, infiltration can happen to anyone although the SWP's organisational style doesn't help. The question is what happens afterwards. I don't expect the SWP or UAF or Respect to publish every last detail but I do expect them to take the event seriously and make that publically clear.

More generally - whether or not there is an investigation is not something that anyone with half a brain should be in favour of keeping secret. Who would want to work with an organisation that was infiltrated by fascists and didn't investigate ever again?