Do you agree that the NHS should be privatised? - the Big Urban75 Poll
- Thread starter Brainaddict
- Start date
invisibleplanet
porter des cornes
What if the NHS were run using a cooperative business model?
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
I'm not even sure we'd want a competent Labour leader though. I mean, Tony Blair was a good leader. Look where he led them.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I wouldn't say Tony Blair was a good leader. The Iraq War shows that he was an extremely weak leader.
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
Well let's not argue about that. The point is that labour won't save the nhs.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
I'm sure the blairites in the labour party agree with lots of the tory NHS agenda. However they are not the entirety of the labour party. More importantly, mobilising popualr anger agasint NHS privatisation would only help labour politically, whilst casuing serious damage to the government - whatever their true intentions, I dont understand why they are not doing this when faced with an open goal.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
They haven't opposed any of the removals of universal services. They didn't effectively oppose the ending of universal child benefit or the slashing of state funding for university education. Both actions were justified by the government by a massive lie - the idea that poor taxpayers are subsidising the rich through their taxes through these benefits. This is the exact opposite of the truth, which is that when you remove universality, the rich end up only paying for themselves and nobody else, whereas with universality, the rich pay many times over through their taxes.
Labour have allowed this lie to be repeated ad nauseum. I fully expect the argument to be made again in order to introduce means-tested doctor charges in the future.
_angel_
.
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
In agreement with lbj. Labour have been pursuing right wing economic policies for well over fifteen years now. When is this backbench uprising going to come? If the rest of the labour party had any fight in them or any power, why didn't they oppose any of the rabidly right wing policies of Blair and Brown? Have they been in a coma? What makes you think they're about to wake up?
As for popular anger about the NHS coming to an end - that would require people to know about it first.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I see this attack on universality as pretty much the defining feature of this govt so far. They started with a 'soft' target - top rate taxpayers with kids - and now they're moving down the ranks. It's an old tory theme, but one that's being pursued with a new-found confidence, that the ideal is to be independent from the state, that collective provision should be there only for those who cannot provide for themselves. There ought to be loads there for an effective Labour party to attack as it's not a particularly coherent philosophy, but I think the opposition to this govt is going to have to come from elsewhere.
invisibleplanet
porter des cornes
Well?
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
What of it? There are many ways the NHS could be run and many ways of improving it. You do realise this government isn't in the business of improving it though, right? The aim is to make a profit from it. If they thought a cooperative business model would do that, they would be all for it, if not, they wouldn't be interested.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Well - to let certain private entities make a profit from it, rather than to have the NHS be some sort of money-raiser for central government. If you wanted to do the latter, the last thing you'd do would be subcontract everything to a load of overpriced cunts.
Mrs Magpie
On a bit of break...
Well, I for one say no to privatising the NHS. They privatised the laundry (which is why there was no bedding for my babies when they were born). They privatised the food (least said about that, the better) and they privatised the cleaning and now superbugs are rife.
Wolveryeti
Detty Pig
All failings within the NHS come down to a lack of money. Privatisation will not solve this by cutting waste etc - this has been amply demonstrated in research done on the internal market experiments of the 1990s (e.g. www.bristol.ac.uk/cmpo/publications/papers/2003/wp77.pdf).
_angel_
.
No bedding? They managed to stretch to bedding when I was there (not long ago) altho I noticed they refuse to hand out nappies (except to neonatals) or sanitary towels/ maternity pads. But they still waste other stuff like the sterilised baby bottles which just get chucked after use, not re-used, but got themselves in a state about anyone throwing away syringes.. was weird.
miniGMgoit
OverWeightUnderAchiever
No no no no no no no!
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Back in the early '90s ('91-'92 IIRC) half a dozen teaching hospitals in south London switched from internal laundry services to contracting laundry services from an external provider. That provider was a company fully-owned by the govt, and the "contractors" doing the laundry were the inmates of two south London prison laundries.
Decent cost savings, but also provided a source of sharps. You wouldn't believe some of the stuff that went in with the sheets (besides full bedpans, that is). :facepalm
Well it's not free 14% of your tax if u work goes to it considering that said shit organisation didn't pin a finger to save money years back gives me grief and two years ago again other hand finger was broken and they didn't set it right whereby I would have had to have it amputated but was set right privately and recently as I'm laid up with a broken knee which they didn't diagnose correctly but private treatment means I will be okay aside from relatives catching MRSA and dying and the botch job of my partners labour give me the option of opting out thank you and spend money on insurance
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
An right wing irish man says no.
Or yes. fuck knows.
Or yes. fuck knows.
Nylock
I hate 'these days'...
^Try that again when the painkillers aren't in full effect...
ohmyliver
poppin' like a cork
no, no and thrice no.
What I would like to know is: which senior politicians stand to make money by way of investments/etc in private health care providers? That's obviously on top of the 750,000 donated to the Tories, and also not including the corrupt conflict of interest of Care UK funding Lansley's office in opposition.
What I would like to know is: which senior politicians stand to make money by way of investments/etc in private health care providers? That's obviously on top of the 750,000 donated to the Tories, and also not including the corrupt conflict of interest of Care UK funding Lansley's office in opposition.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
instrument cleaning was outsourced as well. Hey presto, dirty fucking tools.
You knew the minute the tories got in the NHS was going to get shafted, again- having said that I recall the nulab gov. also part marketizing the nhs. These scum won't be happy till we are bled white.
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
A lot of it will be in the form of jobs after they've left govt so we can't know exactly who will get which sinecures with which health company. We do know a bit about labour though:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/may/17/labour-ministers-consultancy-private-sector
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
I don't think this should be confused with other times the Tories have shafted the NHS. Sure they're making cuts and they always do that. But this is moving from a system of universal healthcare towards a public/private insurance-based model. The NHS will be a 'kitemark', in the words of some of the architects of this change. That is to say, it won't exist as an organisation.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
oh yes, a state healthcare insurance provider for the love of god. Its sometimes hard to discern the line between amoral avarice and ideological impulses with these cunts.
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
I suspect they are unable to separate the two in their own minds so there's no way we can. Their confusion serves them well of course.
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