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Do angry vegans turn you against going vegan?

Watermelon Man said:
You have been programmed to eat meat and dairy. It's as simple as that. From day one! You are basically, the meat and dairy industries bitch.
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I know. They downloaded their bile onto the tabula rassa of my mind.

I don't even believe that 9 11 was an inside job either.

Please provide more insights, now that you have opened my mind I feel like the main character at the end of the Truman Show. I can't remember his name?
 
Watermelon Man said:
What people can't deny is that they have been brainwashed/programmed into eating dead animals and drinking cows milk. It goes on today. Schools telling children that dairy is "essential" in their diet. This is of course programming. Industry led programming.

The main reasons you eat dead animals is because you've been programmed to do so. Yes, you might like the taste but the main reason is for you to give money to the meat industry and possibly the pharmaceutical industry too.
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What utter bollocks :D

Hate to break this to you, but humans have been consuming both meat and dairy for quite a long time.
 
A380 said:
I know. They downloaded their bile onto the tabula rassa of my mind.

I don't even believe that 9 11 was an inside job either.

Please provide more insights, now that you have opened my mind I feel like the main character at the end of the Truman Show. I can't remember his name?
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My point is already in your mind. There's no need for me to elaborate. The truth is out. It's up to you to set it free.
 
More meat and dairy industry corruption for sure... :D

I'm off to eat dead animals, cheese, cows milk...get fat, clog up my arteries and go on tablets for the rest of my life. Because. Because of her!

You have been conned.
 
extra dry said:
Not so much angry ones. I do work work with a vegan and he has the same lunch and dinner everyday, soybean curd and rice, a big tupperware bowl everyday. He looks so unhappy eating it, just so depressed.
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Seriously? That sounds more like an eating disorder to me. I don't think I've had the same lunch in over two years?
 
beesonthewhatnow said:
Yep. Every person who eats meat is unhealthy. Definitely that.
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Ah, you got me. You are right... It's true. Look at America. They consume loads of meat and dairy and they are all healthy as fuck. All very healthy. No obesity crisis. No heart disease. No cancer. No diabetes epidemic. Just goes to prove that bodies are designed to eat meat and dairy. yeah.
 
...and not only that, didn't you know that you are 8 square meals away from eating your neighbour. Hunger can be such a bitch.
 
Watermelon Man said:
Ah, you got me. You are right... It's true. Look at America. They consume loads of meat and dairy and they are all healthy as fuck. All very healthy. No obesity crisis. No heart disease. No cancer. No diabetes epidemic. Just goes to prove that bodies are designed to eat meat and dairy. yeah.
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You are a complete twat.
 
extra dry said:
Not so much angry ones. I do work work with a vegan and he has the same lunch and dinner everyday, soybean curd and rice, a big tupperware bowl everyday. He looks so unhappy eating it, just so depressed.
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I eat more or less exactly the same food every day - have done for years - and I look forward to eating the most nutrients for the least money prepared in the least time.
 
gentlegreen said:
I eat more or less exactly the same food every day - have done for years - and I look forward to eating the most nutrients for the least money prepared in the least time.
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Most nutrients for the least money. I like the sound of that. Lentils, oats, potatoes, vegetables. All cheap as. You can get really cheap fruit in some places too!
 
My current evening meal is an onion, two cloves of garlic, head of broccoli, a punnet of vitamin D mushrooms, a pointy red pepper, a couple of grated carrots, half a pound of home grown mung sprouts ... I confess I also abuse whole wheat cereal and unsweetened soy milk.
 
Perhaps a diversion, but I encountered yet another know-it-all (vegan) personal trainer who has just called me a weirdo and Monsanto shill in his latest video for questioning his unscientific views on GM food.
It this new video he compounded his error by saying that microwaves are also evil and carrots are best eaten raw.

 
gentlegreen said:
Perhaps a diversion, but I encountered yet another know-it-all (vegan) personal trainer who has just called me a weirdo and Monsanto shill in his latest video for questioning his unscientific views on GM food.
It this new video he compounded his error by saying that microwaves are also evil and carrots are best eaten raw.

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The raw thing.... hmmm. I admit, I feel shit loads better if I have a fully raw day but I don't get the raw vegan crowd telling everyone that raw veganism can basically make you a super hero and bullet proof...
 
Missed this thread 'til now. I know a lot of vegans but none of them are angry. Do I have to read the whole thread to find out why some vegans are angry?
I have been vegan twice. Neither time lasted longer than a year. I like the idea of being vegan but I'm just too shallow.
 
Shirl said:
Missed this thread 'til now. I know a lot of vegans but none of them are angry. Do I have to read the whole thread to find out why some vegans are angry?
I have been vegan twice. Neither time lasted longer than a year. I like the idea of being vegan but I'm just too shallow.
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What do you mean too shallow?
 
Watermelon Man said:
What do you mean too shallow?
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I don't have the commitment. I really think that eating animals or killing animals for food or skin or whatever is wrong but I just lack the commitment. I've had spells of being veggie for up to eight years and vegan just for up to a year but my lack of willpower lets me down and I just switch off from caring.
*I'm not proud of myself :(
eta, I rarely eat dairy because I think that is the cruelest of all
 
Shirl said:
I don't have the commitment. I really think that eating animals or killing animals for food or skin or whatever is wrong but I just lack the commitment. I've had spells of being veggie for up to eight years and vegan just for up to a year but my lack of willpower lets me down and I just switch off from caring.
*I'm not proud of myself :(
eta, I rarely eat dairy because I think that is the cruelest of all
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I guess you have to know the reasons why you want to be vegan. Understanding the health part really well or as well as you possibly can is also a good way to stay vegan. One area where many struggle is at social events. Eating out even drinking alcohol! Some of it has fish bladder in. It can be difficult.

I have a little network of vegans these days. That definitely helps as well.
 
Jeff Robinson said:
So, would you say it's fair to sum up your ethical position as this: if we give animals a good life then this compensates them for the premature death we inflict upon, and thereby makes it morally permissible (all else equal)?
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Not quite, no. There's no intention to imply compensation. We're using them for our purposes - I've been clear about that. My position then would simply be that we should not torture them nor give them miserable lives. In fact, more than that, we should be going out of our way not to abuse them. This applies to wider issues of keeping animals in captivity as well.

Jeff Robinson said:
If this is your position, does it mean that you're opposed to fresh water fishing and hunting where we do not give animals anything - all we do is deprive them of life?
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Given that it's not really my position, no.

Jeff Robinson said:
Are you also opposed to egg and dairy production that involve the killing of male offspring shortly after birth because they are economically worthless? The short, sad lives of these poor creatures cannot be described as good in any sense after all.
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I linked earlier to a dairy farm that allows calves to suckle for three to five months before they're taken away. Such places do exist, although they are a tiny minority. I linked to that farm because it conducts its affairs in a way that I consider to be ethical. And yes, many of the dairy and egg farms (including free-range ones) whose produce I consume don't live up to those standards. It's a big discussion we as a society need to have imo.


Jeff Robinson said:
Would you have any qualms with somebody sending their pet dog to a premature death in an industrial slaughterhouse so that they could be turned into a fur coat? Assuming that they gave these dogs a good life then how could you object on your own terms? (n.b, you need to do better than just appeal to 'different relationships' - that's both begging the question [because the basis for those relationships is what is being challenged] and an appeal to tradition fallacy [traditions themselves are not inherently morally good after all].
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Well, here we disagree. I don't see 'different relationships' as such a terrible justification. However, like a lot of this, there isn't as firm a basis for that as you seem to want.

Jeff Robinson said:
A final thing, you claim that you are against factory farming, but have repeatedly admitted that you regularly consume its products. Why do you think that is? I assure you that you are not alone in this hypocrisy. Every supposed advocate of happy meat that I've ever known in fact takes very little care over the sourcing of their animal products (and I used to be exactly the same when I held this position btw). (I would recommend reading part 2 of this insightful essay, which I think provides a plausible hypothesis as to why this might be the case: Why "Happy Meat" Is Always Wrong, an Ebook by Magnus Vinding). Here's a question for you: given that we both agree that factory farming is evil, doesn't the fact that humane meat advocates consistently support it in practice whereas vegans do not make a strong consequentialist case in favour of veganism for that reason alone?
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'consistently support it in practice' is rather loaded. I would say that I very inconsistently 'support' it. I also 'support' many other kinds of exploitation in my consumption - of other humans and of the environment, including practices that kill or lead never to exist countless animals (coffee plantations, for instance - nobody needs to drink coffee). We all do unless we're monks - we're embedded in this society, not another one, and we also need to change things at a higher level than just looking at consumer choice regarding many aspects of industrialised living. You and I seem to disagree as to the extent of the individual's moral responsibility for the practices of her society. That said, I'm also not a saint and have at no point claimed to be one - and I could do better.
 
Watermelon Man said:
I guess you have to know the reasons why you want to be vegan. Understanding the health part really well or as well as you possibly can is also a good way to stay vegan. One area where many struggle is at social events. Eating out even drinking alcohol! Some of it has fish bladder in. It can be difficult.

I have a little network of vegans these days. That definitely helps as well.
Click to expand...
Understanding the health part would be the very last reason for me to become vegan again. I drink too much alcohol. I sometimes do drugs. I smoke the odd cigarette and I have been bulimic in the past. The only reason I could ever stick to being vegan is to stop being so hedonistic and thinking only of myself having fun :( See, I told you I was shallow :(
 
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