Do angry vegans turn you against going vegan?

[8ball]

I was like that when I saw Jaws.
Couldn’t eat fish for weeks.

 

[keybored]

they empathised with the pig

That might have something to do with the anthropomorphism used throughout the film, in fairness.

 

[mojo pixy]

i'll answer your post
it had the effect that a lot of kids realised where the bacon/ham/pork came from and they then spurned it because they empathised with the pig
now answer mine

That's manipulation and I'm not even condemning it, I'm just calling it what it is.

 

[ddraig]

That's manipulation and I'm not even condemning it, I'm just calling it what it is.

what is?

 

[keybored]

To put it another way; if the movie were "Babe: A Documentary" and portrayed the actual day-to-day lives of pigs (eat whatever they get given, roll around in shit, make grunting noises; repeat) most kids would walk out via the hot dog stand after 10 minutes.

 

[mojo pixy]

The film's emotional manipulation hinges on its anthropomorphism of a bunch of realistic farm animals, some of whom are themselves young (eg the eponymous hero). It's aimed at kids (Cert U).

 

[ddraig]

To put it another way; if the movie were "Babe: A Documentary" and portrayed the actual day-to-day lives of pigs (eat whatever they get given, roll around in shit, make grunting noises; repeat) most kids would walk out via the hot dog stand after 10 minutes.

so kids don't like pigs or realise they are sentient beings with feeling and emotional responses?

The film's emotional manipulation hinges on its anthropomorphism of a bunch of realistic farm animals, some of whom are themselves young (eg the eponymous hero). It's aimed at kids (Cert U).

so kids don't like pigs or realise they are sentient beings with feeling and emotional responses?

and what's more manipulative, what the connection made by the film is or the hiding of what the different meats are and their origin?

 

[8ball]

Always good to get enough zinc.
White spots on the fingernails can be a sign of deficiency.

 

[mojo pixy]

so kids don't like pigs or realise they are sentient beings with feeling and emotional responses?

Cheesy fucking crisps. Anthropomorphism, right? It means that wasn't a pig, it was a person.

and what's more manipulative, what the connection made by the film is or the hiding of what the different meats are and their origin?

This is not hidden. You say it is but I disagree, what more can I say.

 

[keybored]

so kids don't like pigs or realise they are sentient beings with feeling and emotional responses?

We're discussing "Babe" here.

the hiding of what the different meats are and their origin?

Where does this happen? I was aware of where meat came from roughly the exact time I was aware of where peas and potatoes come from. Same goes for my kids. If there is some meat-origin-hiding conspiracy going on out there, I need you to provide evidence.

 

[8ball]

Cheesy fucking crisps.

Been vegan for years, I believe.

edit: except the posh ‘kettle chips’, I think

 

[mojo pixy]

Just checked the crisps in my cupboard (Walkers) and they have whey in the list of ingredients.

 

[8ball]

Just checked the crisps in my cupboard (Walkers) and they have whey in the list of ingredients.

Oops. I might have been thinking of bacon crisps...

 

[mojo pixy]

Apart from simple salted, which i believe are universally vegan, any other flavouring probably involves milk on some level. I think only expensive ''meat'' crisps actually have meat extracts in them though.

EtA, salt and vinegar are probably vegan everywhere too, at a guess.

 

[keybored]

No whey!

 

[8ball]

Roast gammon Walkers and the cumberland sausage ones are vegan whereas smoky bacon aren’t, according to tinternet.

Crispa are a bit of a minefield.

 

[8ball]

No whey!

Whey!

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

do you think the majority of kids know? honestly now

Of course the majority of kids know, probably a higher percentage in this day and age than, say 20 or 30 years ago.

I think you underestimate a) the access to information kids have now and b) the remarkable ability kids have to not give a fuck about an awful lot of things

 

[NoXion]

We're discussing "Babe" here.

Where does this happen? I was aware of where meat came from roughly the exact time I was aware of where peas and potatoes come from. Same goes for my kids. If there is some meat-origin-hiding conspiracy going on out there, I need you to provide evidence.

Well apparently if you believe the "Humane Educator" (with a degree and everything!), the evidence consists of the fact that companies put idealistic imagery on the packaging of their products.

Nothing to do with marketing or anything like that.

 

[kabbes]

I can confidently say the day I discover that pigs can talk in fully fledged RP English is the day I give up pork forever. Don't eat anything that can have a conversation with you -- I'm afraid that I'm really quite strict on that one.

 

[8ball]

I can confidently say the day I discover that pigs can talk in fully fledged RP English is the day I give up pork forever. Don't eat anything that can have a conversation with you -- I'm afraid that I'm really quite strict on that one.

What if it's been genetically engineered to want to be eaten?

 

[kabbes]

What if it's been genetically engineered to want to be eaten?

A brilliant piece of philosophical thought experiment by Douglas Adams. I long ago came to the same conclusion as Arthur Dent -- if it is capable of asking me to eat it, I don't want to eat it.

 

[8ball]

A brilliant piece of philosophical thought experiment by Douglas Adams. I long ago came to the same conclusion as Arthur Dent -- if it is capable of asking me to eat it, I don't want to eat it.

Would you rather it felt depressed and rejected?

 

[kabbes]

Would you rather it felt depressed and rejected?

It's not about the morality of the creature, it's about my morality. Douglas Adams is tricking you into moral relativism.

 

[8ball]

It's not about the morality of the creature, it's about my morality. Douglas Adams is tricking you into moral relativism.

It's still about your morality in my question.

 

[kabbes]

It's still about your morality in my question.

I explained my morality. I won't eat anything that is capable of conversation. End of story. What the creature thinks about this is irrelevant, unless I want to adjust my morality in line with its cultural norms. That's moral relativism.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Where does this happen? I was aware of where meat came from roughly the exact time I was aware of where peas and potatoes come from. Same goes for my kids. If there is some meat-origin-hiding conspiracy going on out there, I need you to provide evidence.

Not so much hiding I suppose as encouraging the continued persecution of Fairies and the consumption of their hearts to absorb their power.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

I wouldn't mind seeing this data.

Well for those that are genuinely interested there's plenty of data out there to play with and analyse. Of course it's not something that can be reduced to a single sentence or a marketing soundbite, and you'll need to do at least a bit of reading. As with many important life decisions, to get decent results it pays to put in a bit of effort, wise up and get the knowledge.

But from personal experience I've seen quite a few people struggle with veganism, and a few with long-term vegetarianism. A common issue seems to be "the cold that never goes away", as does feeling generally lethargic.

Well, having actually done it myself along with all the members of my immediate family, I have first hand experience and can compare the "before" and "after", based on real life experience as opposed to vague observations about other peoples persistent colds and "lethargy", or "my d-i-l is a nursery nurse and she said that vegetarian children are lame" etc. In our family it was more like "the colds that never came back". My observation to date has been than at the very minimum veg*ns are no worse off wrt overall health when compared to their meat eating peers. The family and friends that predicted sickness and dire consequences 20 years ago have since changed their tune.

I've not tried it but I think I'd be more likely to struggle with the psychological and lifestyle aspects of it (finding a satisfying and varied diet, dealing with eating out with mates etc.) - I read a lot about nutrition after being ill a little while back -really needed to sort myself out.

I don't really get why the social aspects should be such a big obstacle for so many. Why should your mates opinions on food adversely affect eating out? If I'm out with people and we end up in a restaurant, I eat what I want and they eat whatever they want. If I don't fancy eating, I'll have a drink. Simple. In my experience, on the whole it has been meat eaters who appear to be more troubled by my choices than the other way around. I also read about nutrition, Amazon have taken a ton of money from me. Life long learning ftw.

And what's with the variant spellings of "vegan"?

The asterisk is a wildcard character.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

What if it's been genetically engineered to want to be eaten?

The brilliant Doug Adams, also happened to be veg*n.
Just saying.

 

[PaoloSanchez]