Discussion: UK anti-vaxx 'freedom' morons, protests and QAnon idiots

[DaveCinzano]

This is the latest one, for anyone who doesn’t want aborted fetal tissue fragments or their DNA changed.

She swears by it.

Information about COVID vaccination that all Christians should be aware of.

Shared from the official Rig Nation app.

community.rignation.app

Skimmed that, came to 'satanic agenda', quietly closed it and backed away from the computer

 

[butchersapron]

My sister in law has gone mad with all this.
She believes no true Christian has died from the virus because the blood of Jesus is mighty in them.

Some of the shite she shares on the family WhatsApp group is proper rabbit hole stuff.

My effing sister has. And i don't really know how to directly respond/deal with it. Me telling her it's daft is not working.

 

[Numbers]

My effing sister has. And i don't really know how to directly respond/deal with it. Me telling her it's daft is not working.

x 2 mate. I Love her but fuck me is she on one.

 

[cupid_stunt]

This is the latest one, for anyone who doesn’t want aborted fetal tissue fragments or their DNA changed.

She swears by it.

Information about COVID vaccination that all Christians should be aware of.

Shared from the official Rig Nation app.

community.rignation.app

Fucking hell, this comment is batshit crazy.

Amanda - about 12 hours
@lindac167 Everything I have seen, heard or researched about COVID vaccine indicates to me that this satanic agenda. Anything that Bill Gates is pushing on the population is not good for the human race, as he believes in depopulation of people and he has used many of his vaccines on African and Indian children, to push his demonic agenda. Therefore, I am not jumping to conclusions, many children have suffered significant injuries deformities from these so called vaccine, which by the way were often injected into the children without their parents consent. So, you need to go away and do your own research, as I have done mine.

 

[butchersapron]

Therefore, I am not jumping to conclusions

 

[Roadkill]

From this Facebook group.

Practical Lawful Dissent International | Facebook

We are Doing Our Constitutional Duty to Protect the Realm from Treason and Tyranny. We Only use Evidential Facts and Constitutional Law. Stand with Us in Lawful Dissent against this Treasonous Regime.

www.facebook.com

They seem like a mainly harmless bunch but this illustrates the selfish mind set, my right to park anywhere even a disabled space. Also, someone needs to let them know what genocide means.

This is Freeman on the Land nonsense. Normally it's just laughable, but at the moment the way it ties in with the anti-vax / anti-lockdown stuff is dangerous.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Two arrests at Christian tearoom that refuses to close

The owner of the Mustard Seed in Gedling previously cited Magna Carta as a reason to remain open.

www.bbc.co.uk

Good job they're not in the US as tearoom can have a somewhat different meaning.

Tearoom Trade - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[LDC]

This is the latest one, for anyone who doesn’t want aborted fetal tissue fragments or their DNA changed.

She swears by it.

Information about COVID vaccination that all Christians should be aware of.

Shared from the official Rig Nation app.

community.rignation.app

Shitting hell. Even in the sphere of anti-vax batshit, that is pretty special. It's such a load of bollocks it's basically impossible to engage with it.

Personal question, and feel free to no answer, is the person sharing this a bit vulnerable? It's really quite worrying someone can think that's at all normal or has any relationship to reality.

 

[LDC]

My effing sister has. And i don't really know how to directly respond/deal with it. Me telling her it's daft is not working.

So many people have. I keep hearing of people who were on the edges of the political scene having gone down the rabbit hole with this stuff. Really depressing.

 

[Pickman's model]

My sister in law has gone mad with all this.
She believes no true Christian has died from the virus because the blood of Jesus is mighty in them.

Some of the shite she shares on the family WhatsApp group is proper rabbit hole stuff.

(((((Numbers)))))

 

[8ball]

Say what you like about Ron Watkins, he managed to keep them consistently focused on a theme for a while.

 

[Numbers]

Shitting hell. Even in the sphere of anti-vax batshit, that is pretty special. It's such a load of bollocks it's basically impossible to engage with it.

Personal question, and feel free to no answer, is the person sharing this a bit vulnerable? It's really quite worrying someone can think that's at all normal or has any relationship to reality.

There’s no quick or short or easy answer to that to be honest.

 

[lazythursday]

Every now and then I gird myself to look at the facebook feeds of my various covid-denying acquaintances, and each time it seems worse somehow. More batshit. Further to the right. More freeman on the land, more pro-trump, more bigger-crazier-agenda behind Covid. I just don't know how I'm going to interact with these people when eventually interaction is back on the agenda. I find myself despising them more than, say, a Tory. I can debate a Tory. I can see logic to their view, even if I find it misguided or even repulsive. But this shit... I just can't have any respect for these people any longer.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

This is the latest one, for anyone who doesn’t want aborted fetal tissue fragments or their DNA changed.

She swears by it.

Information about COVID vaccination that all Christians should be aware of.

Shared from the official Rig Nation app.

community.rignation.app

That's completely barking.

 

[Pickman's model]

That's completely barking.

utterly ludicrous

 

[Numbers]

(((((Numbers)))))

17 years on Urban and I get hugs from you, during a pandemic too. There must be a conspiracy

 

[frogwoman]

Really sorry to hear this Numbers and butchersapron

 

[frogwoman]

So many people have. I keep hearing of people who were on the edges of the political scene having gone down the rabbit hole with this stuff. Really depressing.

Not even always on the fringes, the last few years and especially 2020 has done weird things to people

 

[SheilaNaGig]

I just had a look at that clip Numbers linked to.

It’s massively frustrating. People are “doing their own research” and encouraging others to do that too. But when you can look over their shoulder while they “research” , as in that clip, it’s like watching someone trying to read a book in a foreign language using only a dictionary. They think they understand what the word/term means, because they’ve looked it up and can see the definition. But they have no context, no reference points, no depth of understanding around that word/term. And now, they’re certain they know, in the classic “a little learning is a dangerous thing” way of knowing. So when you try to interject, they jump immediately to believing that you’re the stupid one who refuses to see.

A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again.


I was with a client who was saying all the stuff about “I’ve heard... lots of people are saying....” so I suggested that we look something up together. She used her phone, I used my iPad. We used exactly the same search terms. Her algorithm took her further into the rabbit hole, mine returned loads of science and debunking sites. I didn’t say “there, you see, you're wrong!” but I did point out to her how easy it it to be dragged along in a particular direction. She seemed to pause and take a step back.

I've done this a few times, looked at debunking stuff and science alongside the Troo Believer. I don’t think it breaks the spell for them completely but it adds in a bit of an option for them.










I absolutely and categorically oppose the QAnon Covid conspiracy bullshit. I’m deeply concerned about it. I’ve said so from the start. I’ve been worried about how prevalent it is, and I’ve said all along that it’s a huge and growing problem, and will prove to be increasingly detrimental and dangerous. I’m saying this because some people on here apparently think I might be on board with all this bullshit. I’m not. One of the reasons I sometimes post about it is because I've been fossicking around at the edges of the rabbit hole in an effort to understand what’s going on, and so that I can hopefully engage in conversation with people when they say bullshit stuff, from an informed position, not just to say “it’s bullshit you’re daft”, which just gets them more entrenched. I started the Covid conspiracy corner thread back at the start of all this because i noticed it was happening and I knew it would be a growing problem. I didn’t foresee the way it would get muddled up with the QAnon stuff, but it’s no surprise that’s happened. I assumed it would be obvious that I don’t support or believe any of this rubbish, but it turns out I was a wrong about that. So I’m now putting it on record that I do not support or believe any of this conspiracy bollocks.

 

[frogwoman]

I don't think certain sections of the media have helped giving a platform to the likes of Sikora, Gupta etc who are basically the respectable face of the 'covid truthers'.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I was with a client who was saying all the stuff about “I’ve heard... lots of people are saying....” so I suggested that we look something up together. She used her phone, I used my iPad. We used exactly the same search terms. Her algorithm took her further into the rabbit hole, mine returned loads of science and debunking sites

Blimey, I hadn't thought of that, no wonder people are getting sucked into the rabbit hole.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

Blimey, I hadn't thought of that, no wonder people are getting sucked into the rabbit hole.

Yeah... Once I realised that, I also realised i could use it as a way to demonstrate how they’re being manipulated. With some people (by no means all) it can really help them see a different perspective.

But on the whole, it’s no use. It’s like a mass hysteria, or like an addiction.

There’s a kind of event horizon, with a gravitational pull. Once someone is over that line, there’s very little one can actually do to bring them back.

Like others on here, I’ve been reading around the experiences of those who’ve lost people to the rabbit hole, and also those (worryingly few) who have broken out.

There’s a mind experiment that I do, have done for years, specially with stuff that I’m fundamentally opposed to. I try to spend a few minutes imagining they’re right, they are correct and righteous, and that I’m deluded, misinformed, wrongheaded. It can be really disturbing for sure, but it’s aided me in trying to connect with some people in a way that has proven to be helpful in the long term.

In this instance - the whole Covid conspiracy stuff - it’s allowed me to keep channels of communication open, and thus some kind of option for them. I’m not saying it’s making a difference, or at least not yet, not that I’ve noticed. But when I read about what has helped those who have managed to break out, having access to sensible options is one of them. I’m not going down the rabbit hole to fetch them out (that would be pointless), but I’m prepared to stand at the rim and keep that rope ladder in good working order.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I've been struggling with this stuff for many years - family members who have believed mad shit for a long time now. Qanon is the latest in a long line of nonsense. It's ruined their lives.

You can't fetch them out. Or at least I've never found a way to. The belief is not based on reason, so you can't reason with it. You can't prove it wrong with facts because there is always an elaborate confabulation to get them out of it, however unlikely it might sound. In fact, when events prove the belief wrong, that can just lead them to sink even deeper into delusion.

I don't have solutions. Just avoid certain subjects and try to stop them from dying.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

Another thing that has helped keep the rope ladder in place, I think, is to point out the inconsistencies and conflicts in their theories. Not aggressively, but to say “what I’m having trouble with is why they would go to all this trouble to invent a virus so that they can invent a vaccine so that they can introduce a tracking device, when they can just use our phones instead...” etc. You can see it give them pause for thought, and that’s all that’s needed, just a little pause where a seed of doubt can find purchase in their mind.

I know I’m not going to change anyone’s mind. They have to find their own way out. If I can keep them talking - not just to me, to anyone who might disagree with them - rather than send them fleeing further into the rabbit-hole-echo-chamber , then that’s good. If they feel attacked, they’ll retreat.
ETA
I’m only talking with those who are willing to talk with me; the fact they’re willing to talk at all suggests that they’re not completely over the line. I’ve also had loads who just want to preach and proselytise. I just shut down and shut up with them. Get away as quick as I can.

 

[StoneRoad]

SheilaNaGig

I reckon part of the "addiction" problem with this bollox, is that it can be a form of self-fulfilling prophecy.
Not only that, but none so blind as those that don't want to see.

Good Luck with maintaining that rope ladder down the rabbit hole !

 

[SheilaNaGig]

SheilaNaGig

I reckon part of the "addiction" problem with this bollox, is that it can be a form of self-fulfilling prophecy.
Not only that, but none so blind as those that don't want to see.

Good Luck with maintaining that rope ladder down the rabbit hole !

Those who’ve made it out say that it made them feel strong, powerful, connected, alive, as if they hold a secret, that they can help save the world. That sounds kinda like a drug high to me, and chasing the self fulfilling prophecy stuff is like trying to chase that high.

 

[LDC]

I don't think certain sections of the media have helped giving a platform to the likes of Sikora, Gupta etc who are basically the respectable face of the 'covid truthers'.

No, that's partly what nearly got a GP friend of mine. She started from a position of being very concerned for people missing out on normal NHS services and the issues with mental health that some people were having with the lockdown, and that was on top of an alternative culture/leftie political mistrust of the government. She then saw 'respected ' academic and other medical professional like the above criticizing the lockdown and that gave her concerns a 'evidenced' background. She stuck with it for a bit, but was talked around and is OK now, but I can see how it gets even very sensible clever people sometimes.

 

[two sheds]

Another thing that has helped keep the rope ladder in place, I think, is to point out the inconsistencies and conflicts in their theories. Not aggressively, but to say “what I’m having trouble with is why they would go to all this trouble to invent a virus so that they can invent a vaccine so that they can introduce a tracking device, when they can just use our phones instead...” etc. You can see it give them pause for thought, and that’s all that’s needed, just a little pause where a seed of doubt can find purchase in their mind.

Yes the best response I've seen to chemtrails, which I saw from some wise person on urban, was "why? why go to all that trouble and time and expense with the risk of being discovered with so many people being involved, when you could just dump the stuff in the local reservoir?"

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Those who’ve made it out say that it made them feel strong, powerful, connected, alive, as if they hold a secret, that they can help save the world. That sounds kinda like a drug high to me, and chasing the self fulfilling prophecy stuff is like trying to chase that high.

It can give meaning to people's lives. That can help some people when their lives are going to shit. But it can also end up replacing whatever else was there previously that gave their lives meaning, making it pretty impossible to come back. Come back to what? It's all gone.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

This stuff seems to be popular with 'born again' Christians. It feeds their beliefs about the anti-christ, satanic influences and the end of the world. There's very little point trying to reason with them as they think they are the chosen few who can see the truth and the rest of us have been sucked into the dark side.