Discussion: UK anti-vaxx 'freedom' morons, protests and QAnon idiots
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girasol
Addicted to handstands!
Might what? I'm really in search for all ammunition/knowledge possible. In my mind such diluted solution is more likely to do absolutely nothing at all than to even cause damage. It's just a waste of time. She then described how it had to be taken in small quantities over x hours (5, 8? Can't remember), this could potentially be dangerous? When I asked how does it work, she talked about molecules and cell oxigenation? I'm not a scientist, but hey, neither is she, however her conviction is strong! And based in real science, she thinks.Or maybe an attenuated pathogen might ... oh, wait, shit. No, ignore me
She believes she's an expert because she works for the NHS. How can I argue with this conviction? I think she'd have no respect for my non scientific background (computer science doesn't count
) if I challenge her. So I won't. Also I like her. But I want her to know I won't be taking this because...?
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
Might what? I'm really in search for all ammunition/knowledge possible. In my mind such diluted solution is more likely to do absolutely nothing at all than to even cause damage. It's just a waste of time. She then described how it had to be taken in small quantities over x hours (5, 8? Can't remember), this could potentially be dangerous? When I asked how does it work, she talked about molecules and cell oxigenation? I'm not a scientist, but hey, neither is she, however her conviction is strong! And based in real science, she thinks.
She believes she's an expert because she works for the NHS. How can I argue with this conviction? I think she'd have no respect for my non scientific background (computer science doesn't count
Because it's bleach. That's reason enough, isn't it? Point out that no qualified doctor will write out a prescription for bleach, and that no pharmacy would fulfil it. It's sold alongside other cleaning materials, not medications like paracetomol or ibuprofen. Just because she "works for the NHS" doesn't make her an expert. What work does she actually do? Unless she's a doctor, she's no more qualified than the rest of us.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
TBH, I really don't think arguing with these people can have much utility. About all you can do is state your position, don't bother explaining, and just saying "that's where I stand, and I'm not really interested in debating it." Doing that stands more chance of her taking a step back: if you argue with her, she's more likely to dig her heels in, and/or quote more and more nonsense at you until you give up in dismay. At which point she'll have convinced herself a little bit more.Might what? I'm really in search for all ammunition/knowledge possible. In my mind such diluted solution is more likely to do absolutely nothing at all than to even cause damage. It's just a waste of time. She then described how it had to be taken in small quantities over x hours (5, 8? Can't remember), this could potentially be dangerous? When I asked how does it work, she talked about molecules and cell oxigenation? I'm not a scientist, but hey, neither is she, however her conviction is strong! And based in real science, she thinks.
She believes she's an expert because she works for the NHS. How can I argue with this conviction? I think she'd have no respect for my non scientific background (computer science doesn't count
fucthest8
Cool people die horrible, preventable deaths.
...create a vaccine.
I was being silly, extrapolating on the whole "small amounts might work" thing, since that's kind of how a live vaccine works.
Which is, to be fair, the kind of shit both sides could throw at each other. "No, you believe tiny amounts of something can cure you"
Cue the homeopaths.
Yossarian
⏭️
Mere mortals might argue drinking bleach is a terrible idea, but do they have the wisdom of a billion-year-old god from the Andromeda galaxy?
Most of the claims can be traced back to Jim Humble, founder and “archbishop” of the Genesis II Church of Health and Healing, aka “The Church of Bleach.”
Humble has been touting the solution for nearly two decades, referring to it as MMS—Miracle or Master Mineral Solution. (It’s also known as the Miracle Mineral Supplement, the Chlorine Dioxide (CD) Protocol, and Water Purification Solution (WPS).) Humble is a former Scientologist who reportedly claims to be a billion-year-old god from the Andromeda galaxy.
arstechnica.com
Most of the claims can be traced back to Jim Humble, founder and “archbishop” of the Genesis II Church of Health and Healing, aka “The Church of Bleach.”
Humble has been touting the solution for nearly two decades, referring to it as MMS—Miracle or Master Mineral Solution. (It’s also known as the Miracle Mineral Supplement, the Chlorine Dioxide (CD) Protocol, and Water Purification Solution (WPS).) Humble is a former Scientologist who reportedly claims to be a billion-year-old god from the Andromeda galaxy.
People are still drinking bleach—and vomiting and pooping their guts out
The “Church of Bleach” is still strong, despite years of warnings.
girasol
Addicted to handstands!
I don't like the "these people" attitude though, they are just people, with a blind spot. Everyone has a blind spot no matter how smart they think they are. I'm just trying to think of a way of saying I don't think this is a good idea without making her feel stupid or ostracised. She's a friend, I don't want her not to be my friend anymore because of this. There's been enough of that everywhere. People falling out, hating on each other. I don't want to be a part of that.
wemakeyousoundb
hopefully not gimboid
that's me soldMere mortals might argue drinking bleach is a terrible idea, but do they have the wisdom of a billion-year-old god from the Andromeda galaxy?
Most of the claims can be traced back to Jim Humble, founder and “archbishop” of the Genesis II Church of Health and Healing, aka “The Church of Bleach.”
Humble has been touting the solution for nearly two decades, referring to it as MMS—Miracle or Master Mineral Solution. (It’s also known as the Miracle Mineral Supplement, the Chlorine Dioxide (CD) Protocol, and Water Purification Solution (WPS).) Humble is a former Scientologist who reportedly claims to be a billion-year-old god from the Andromeda galaxy.
People are still drinking bleach—and vomiting and pooping their guts out
The “Church of Bleach” is still strong, despite years of warnings.
Just say you don't want to take this "remedy" and leave it at that and do not pursue the subject, I think trying to convince them that it is not a good idea will damage your friendship whichever way you try to do it.
What work does she do for the NHS?
pogofish
Testicle Hairstyle
However a significant proportion of anti-vaxxers are not shifting from their demands for "Nuremberg Trials" and public executions. So no change there then..!
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Well, yeah, OK, I'm not saying they're some kind of discrete sub-group. "People who hold views like these..."
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
I have friends who hold these views. Most of them know by now that there's no point peddling that nonsense around me, but none of us hate each other or are anything other than friendly. It gets less friendly if they insist on going on about it ad nauseam, though.
Is she showing you the same courtesy?
girasol
Addicted to handstands!
She's never made me feel stupid/ostracised so, yeah.
girasol
Addicted to handstands!
I'm not sure. She told me before but I forgot
That’s not what I asked though.
Has she done you the courtesy of worrying what you will feel from her questioning prior to questioning you? Or has she just dumped unwanted advice on you without worrying about the potential dispute it will cause?
pogofish
Testicle Hairstyle
I’ve also noticed a fair number calling/framing themselves as “the resistance“ recently - if that’s not a discrete sub-group/bunker mentality, I don’t know what is?
And yes, a significant subset are arguing that there “resistance“ should now move over from antivaxxing to climate change denial!
girasol
Addicted to handstands!
The conversation wasn't like that.
Indeed.
It’s never the conspiracists and the bleach-pushers that worry about how their words might land, is it? It’s always the ones that are being put in the position of having to say no.
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
Partly through watching the lunatics playing around with their gas meters etc, I've finally plucked up the courage to have another go at ditching my TV license - having just had the renewal come through.
They managed to scare me out of it last time I tried.
It's one of my smaller money leaks, but it was long overdue.
They managed to scare me out of it last time I tried.
It's one of my smaller money leaks, but it was long overdue.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
It's a piece of piss. You can register to say you don't need a licence, and they promise not to harass you for 2 years. Unless, as in my case, they decide you've been watching iPlayer and revoke it.
Either way, all you're condemned to is an escalating series of vaguely-worded (to the point of being misleading) threatening letters, which you can look at every month and laugh hollowly at. If, by some chance, they do send a zero-hours commission-based licence collector with no legal powers, you ask them to identify themselves, and then civilly tell them to go away. Don't engage, share no information, and don't be browbeaten. Worst-case scenario is that they turn up with a search warrant, in which case you have to let them in, but that's all. And they need reasonable evidence for suspicion, which not being on the licence database does not count as.
Don't be tempted down the "honest citizen" route ("I have nothing to hide"), because they are known to use trickery once in your house to get you to incriminate yourself by switching on devices, accessing TV, etc. Far easier just to tell them to go away in the first place.
Almost all prosecutions for TV licence evasion are secured on admissions that they have tricked/coerced out of people. Best not to let it get to that point.
muscovyduck
Good IT skills and food hygiene competent
You're also most likely to get a visit if you're somewhere with lots of vulnerable people. So like, homeless hostels, temp accommodation, that sort of thing. If you've got your own place you're probably fine
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
Earlier in the year, a neighbour handed me a threatening-looking letter they'd had delivered by mistake - some time after I relented and reinstated my DD - but it turned out to be for the multiple-occupancy next door - it had me going for a while.
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
38 years in the same house.
I was seriously pissed off when I got back from 2 weeks' holiday to find court threats from the council on my doormat due to switching banks and them messing up the DDs - I made sure to complain about that.
Maybe l, though, don’t post a written record of this on a as public forum
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
The BBC is so shit now.
These days it all seems dumbed-down and a mouthpiece for the government.
The threatening language they use makes you wonder if it's possible to break the law watching Youtube feeds - they imply that watching live French TV would count.
I've made sure to delete my iPlayer username and password.
I literally don't watch TV - haven't for years - not even BBC radio - not even Attenborough to be honest.
These days it all seems dumbed-down and a mouthpiece for the government.
The threatening language they use makes you wonder if it's possible to break the law watching Youtube feeds - they imply that watching live French TV would count.
I've made sure to delete my iPlayer username and password.
Yeah, they say you need one if you watch live TV on any channel. Including Youtube.
But @exerstencialist advice is right.
I used to work for them. Not in a door knocking capacity. The letters were / are such shit.
WouldBe
Dislicksick
There was a weirdo stood at the side of a roundabout in chesterfield yesterday with a sign saying "BBC are the virus" plus something else that was too small to read while driving past.
wemakeyousoundb
hopefully not gimboid
I have a letter of apology from the beeb for causing mental distress by harrassing me about a licence from before you could do the online registration thingy
wemakeyousoundb
hopefully not gimboid
They live!There was a weirdo stood at the side of a roundabout in chesterfield yesterday with a sign saying "BBC are the virus" plus something else that was too small to read while driving past.
PR1Berske
Alligator in chains by the park gates.
Last night I met a friend at my local for a pint and general catch-up. Two complete strangers of a certain age asked to sit a table behind us and we soon got talking to them. She remembered a few pubs from "back in the day" and we seemed to be getting on.
He then asked if I was "into music ". He started to recommend Van Morrison's new album. I immediately responded with "Oh that conspiracy theory album, anti-vaxx, anti-lockdown, all that?" and this, for want of a better word, triggered him. "He's not anti-vaxx, do you not know the truth, my brother was hospitalised by that vaccine....."
I showed him my NHS lanyard (as did my mate) though this only made him worse, so we said our goodbyes and sat elsewhere.
He was red with emotion. Burning, blushed, explicitly RED in the face, just from a few minutes of conversation.
He then asked if I was "into music ". He started to recommend Van Morrison's new album. I immediately responded with "Oh that conspiracy theory album, anti-vaxx, anti-lockdown, all that?" and this, for want of a better word, triggered him. "He's not anti-vaxx, do you not know the truth, my brother was hospitalised by that vaccine....."
I showed him my NHS lanyard (as did my mate) though this only made him worse, so we said our goodbyes and sat elsewhere.
He was red with emotion. Burning, blushed, explicitly RED in the face, just from a few minutes of conversation.
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