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Discussion: UK anti-vaxx 'freedom' morons, protests and QAnon idiots

BigMoaner said:
i still think this all started with trump's "fake news" memes. a turning point. he just used to say to anyone who disagreed with him "that's fake news" and i can remember feeling somethign change. somethign ripple through. it's grim. the people we see in these videos are just the tip of the spear, or tip of the iceburg. this stuff is counted by a better education system, a more equal society, educating children about how teh internet works, how it monitizes attention and emotion. i've already explained to my daughter what a "grifter is" "someone who uses provoking views over and over again so he can pay his mortgage." it's all capitalism once again init.
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I don't think that's where it started, although it was an important turning point. Remember that Trump had to campaign for both the Republican leadership and the Presidential elections. I think social media, particularly Facebook, had an import role to play in both of those races. I believe that Trump's previous experience in the Apprentice (US) set him up perfectly for his run. I don't know if the likes of Cambridge Analytica and the Russian Internet Research Agency had a hand in it, but in retrospect it certainly seems plausible.

Plus of course, the US public has long been primed for this kind of assault (and I do believe it is a kind of assault against them, from enemies both internal and external) by long-standing issues with education, de-industrialisation, and widening wealth gaps. The US health insurance system in particular deserves singling out as contributing massively to the current mess, which includes a bunch of scammers and true believers pushing all kinds of alt-med rubbish.

Improving education, making society more equitable and educating people from a young age about sundry scams would certainly do much to heal such weeping sores in the body politic, but it honestly seems less like a disease, and more like a harmful addiction. There are powerful interests who simply don't want the masses to be better prepared to intellectually defend themselves, because taking advantage is how they acquire and maintain their wealth and social capital.
 
NoXion said:
. The US health insurance system in particular deserves singling out as contributing massively to the current mess, which includes a bunch of scammers and true believers pushing all kinds of alt-med rubbish.
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The US healthcare system is why there is so much cynicism directed at drug companies, scientists and medical staff. None are seen to be acting altruistically because most of the time they aren’t. It’s very different to this country but I think a lot of people have picked up the same attitude because stuff spreads across borders on the internet.

I find it interesting that the meme below is very popular with right-wing antivaxx berks on Facebook, worth pointing out that in much of the world it is ’free’ due to the demonic evil of socialised healthcare, and maybe they should give it a go.

309B7575-33FB-4200-979A-DBD29F8F1C3C.jpeg
 
It almost makes makes me want to return to Facebook and argue the point. Almost. But then I remember that it would be fucking pointless.
 
NoXion said:
I don't think that's where it started, although it was an important turning point. Remember that Trump had to campaign for both the Republican leadership and the Presidential elections. I think social media, particularly Facebook, had an import role to play in both of those races. I believe that Trump's previous experience in the Apprentice (US) set him up perfectly for his run. I don't know if the likes of Cambridge Analytica and the Russian Internet Research Agency had a hand in it, but in retrospect it certainly seems plausible.
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'Alternative facts' - always sends a chill through me, that phrase.

The thing is everyone wants to be 'smart', everyone wants to be in control. Conspiracy gives people that. It's not incompetence, it's not the burgeoning of a virus that governments couldn't be bothered to see coming, no, it must be a plan and only you, lowly you, who 'the Elite' looks down upon, has the answer and has seen through their plot. You are special and smart!

I don't particularly argue with these guys online - they'll have made up their mind that I am brainwashed, scared, obeying orders etc, and nothing I can say will change that and I don't really care what some random person on the internet thinks of me. I will engage if people start using Nazi analogies because I think most of that comes from a place of ignorance and I treasure a vague hope that if people are calmly and non-insultingly explained to how inappropriate it is, they might at least stop and think for a moment. Because I don't want people to go around thinking of the Holocaust as this vague 'Big Bad Thing that was bad and if I don't like something it's like the Nazis' - I want people to know it affected real people, to whom genuinely appalling things happened and still affects real people alive today (like me). Also my mother grew up in genuine Police State so I have a fairly realistic idea that, however bad things are in general, COVID rules do not amount to that either.
 
pogofish said:
Pee is a surprisingly useful and hygenic/environmentlly-friendly bodily byproduct. Maybe it should be considered aside from the Antivaxers?
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There was an Indian prime minister who was famous for advocating drinking your own piss. I only know this because an old landlord of mine used to brag about having once met him.
 
Is there a book or decent online article that explains wtf these people are about?
The faith in an ancient set of laws that somehow trump actual law, despite there being not one record of these nonsense legal challenges ever working. The motivation behind stirring up fear of getting a mild vaccination that has never previously bothered people when they’ve gone on holiday or had children. Are the people leading on this sincere or are they just one the make? Or is it a mix of both like some religious charlatans who end up as cult leaders?
Should all blame be laid at the internet’s door and social media sending them into echo spirals that confirm their ever radicalising bias?
Should we have lessons in schools to counteract this shit, to teach kids how to critically evaluate what they read online, to detect agendas, well- and badly-sourced information, to teach at least a general understanding of scientific method?
These are the sorts of things that they teach pupils in schools good or well-funded enough to employ a qualified librarian (look, here’s me furthering a not-so-hidden-agenda!)
 
Orang Utan said:
Should we have lessons in schools to counteract this shit, to teach kids how to critically evaluate what they read online, to detect agendas, well- and badly-sourced information, to teach at least a general understanding of scientific method?
These are the sorts of things that they teach pupils in schools good or well-funded enough to employ a qualified librarian (look, here’s me furthering a not-so-hidden-agenda!)
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Definitely.
 
Orang Utan said:
Should all blame be laid at the internet’s door and social media sending them into echo spirals that confirm their ever radicalising bias?
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Not all blame, but the internet and social media has no doubt made things worse. Although the ruling class (who control the media and education system and the internet etc) have never wanted people to truly question things and have real critical thinking skills and have ensured that most people, especially working class people (and unfortunately most of these people seem to be working class), are de-educated, so that doesn't help - and no doubt to some people this makes me come across like a conspiracy theorist :D
 
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Vaccine resistance has a long history and quite a lot of it was from the days before many people had the right to vote - so it was seen as yet another imposition ...

These days I see resistance to face coverings as the real low-hanging fruit ...
 
AmateurAgitator said:
Not all blame, but the internet and social media has no doubt made things worse. Although the ruling class (who control the media and education system) have never wanted people to truly question things and have real critical thinking skills and have ensured that that most people, especially working class people (and unfortunately most of these people seem to be working class), are de-educated, so that doesn't help - and no doubt to some people makes me come across like a conspiracy theorist :D
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gentlegreen said:


www.facebook.com

Lisa Jane Waters

Lisa Jane Waters is on Facebook. Join Facebook to connect with Lisa Jane Waters and others you may know. Facebook gives people the power to share and makes the world more open and connected.
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com
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Are you inviting people to doxx this person? Not sure that’s a good idea
 
I have a "project" antivaxxer on Paltalk - spent every waking hour pasting all the standard crap from Bitch shoot etc ... a friend of theirs says they were fairly OK before covid.
I recorded all the crazy shit they posted in my room and via PMs until I got fed up and blocked them.

They pleaded with me the other day to take down the profile post I had made with them all ...
I wish I'd captured the photo of mine they had for a while labelled "triple-vaxxed moron" - in the unlikely event that what I've done is against PT TOS ... but the stuff they posted probably IS - though it's fairly "normal" for PT.

My idea was that these people don't get reminded of the crazy stuff they posted and how it must appear to others ..

Lately they've been online a lot less ...

aquaframe.png

This was all I could fit into an image - there's masses more ....
 
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Yossarian said:
"Anti-vax terrorist 'not an anti-vaxxer per se,' court told"
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Quite a lot of them seem to have developed a disliking for being called anti-vaxers don't they. Or I've definitely noticed it more recently. It's a bit odd tbh - if you don't want to be called an anti-vaxer get a new hobby other than ranting about vaccines perhaps.
 
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