Discussion: UK anti-vaxx 'freedom' morons, protests and QAnon idiots

[LDC]

There's some really interesting and worthwhile stuff to look into about all this; historical reasons why some people have a mistrust of medical provision and the State, the relationship between the two, stuff in the 1800s cholera pandemic and the responses and resistance to those at the time by normal people, racial and class responses to 'lockdowns' and vaccines and why they might be like that, the history and role of medicine, and unpicking the mess of whats and whys of the 'anti-lockdown/conspiracy/whatever' things here in the last 2 years, etc etc. But his article isn't it.

 

[killer b]

Also Paul Kingsnorth is a politically dodgy cunt and an egotistical prick, and he's involved in this very dubious project (unless it's another Kingsnorth that looks the same and also writes bollocks) Home - Dark Mountain Nice bunch of comments beneath it which tells you something.

is dark mountain bad? I've never got far into any of the articles on it cause they're generally pretty boring, but I've found much of what I've read from Dougald Hine pretty interesting.

 

[8ball]

Never heard of the bloke, so can't comment on any previous.

Me neither. Can't verify all the claims right now but some of it is pretty chilling.

 

[BigMoaner]

Seen on a mate's FB page (not posted by mate himself, I hasten to add). At first I thought this was a parody...

View attachment 298906

But then he went on...

View attachment 298907

At first I just laughed. Then I looked at his profile (not under his real name - he knows what they're up to! Having said that, neither am I...). It's just post after post of conspiraloon nonsense, from Hillary Clinton being a clone to some kind of new age spiral cult that reminded me of the Call of the Yeti in Mighty Boosh ('The rhythms of the forest flow through me - and they can flow through you too').

It's not that surprising really, that this bollocks appeals to lonely vulnerable people, perhaps with learning difficulties, and makes them feel like they're stronger and more perceptive than everyone else. I bet he has no idea what ivermectin or midazolam are.

all of which is classics of the genre.

 

[klang]

It's not that surprising really, that this bollocks appeals to lonely vulnerable people, perhaps with learning difficulties

I know a lot of people with learning difficulties, and only a tiny percentage of them have expressed a slight interest in CTs. Most of them have lived through enough hardship and marginalisation to have a pretty good grasp of reality when it comes to power structures and manipulation.

The people I know who went down the rabbit hole, all the way down to proper far out stuff bordering on QAnon, don't strike me as particularly vulnerable or lonely.

 

[elbows]

Indeed. Spot the flaw.
View attachment 298914

I suppose in the current age one disadvantage that killing a lot of hosts gives a virus is that lots of death is more likely to make people take things seriously and try harder to avoid catching it.

But we can also play around with these themes and take the UK as an example of the vaccine era giving the virus new opportunities due to the government not bothering to keep number of infections down once they thought they could rely heavily on vaccines instead. Enabling more opportunities for the virus to mutate.

 

[SpineyNorman]

"And besides, viruses tend to mutate in ways that make them less dangerous but more transmissable,":



"so mutation is not actually a bad thing in the long run":



"Eventually we will have to learn to live with a less dangerous variant as the dominant strain, as we do with the flu."

Yes, a lot of people in the press talk bollocks about this too.

One of your sources is also responsible for ancient aliens by the way.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Then you are part of the problem. Attitudes like yours increase vaccine hesitancy. So thanks for making world worse.

I think you'll find that's the anti vaxxers doing that. Hesitancy wouldn't be an option if I got my way.

 

[8ball]

I suppose in the current age one disadvantage that killing a lot of hosts gives a virus is that lots of death is more likely to make people take things seriously and try harder to avoid catching it.

I thought this was understood to be factor in virus evolution well before current times. You don't need to know the precise biology to avoid a place where lots of people are getting sick.

 

[elbows]

Yeah I only said current age because I didnt want to get dragged into discussing whatever the historical realities were on that front.

Oh and when I went on about the need to consider host changes and not just changes to the virus, I was reminded of this sort of thing which I have posted before:

The human genome contains billions of pieces of information and around 22,000 genes, but not all of it is, strictly speaking, human. Eight percent of our DNA consists of remnants of ancient viruses, and another 40 percent is made up of repetitive strings of genetic letters that is also thought to have a viral origin. Those extensive viral regions are much more than evolutionary relics: They may be deeply involved with a wide range of diseases including multiple sclerosis, hemophilia, and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), along with certain types of dementia and cancer.

The non-human living inside of you | Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory

« Previous Story Next Story » Half of your genome started out as an infection; if left unchecked, some parts of it can turn deadly all over again. The human genome contains billions of pieces of information and around 22,000 genes, but not all of it is, strictly speaking, human. Eight percent of...

www.cshl.edu

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Hesitancy wouldn't be an option if I got my way.

Well fortunately for the rest of us you're just an angry little man on the internet. I think I'll leave you alone to wank over your man-of-steel dictator fantasies, Comrade.

 

[BigMoaner]

of course lockdowns, and pressure to take vacinnes, and businesses closing, etc is grim reading, especially when it comes top down from the government.

but what part of "global fucking pandemic" do these freaks not understand? unless all those creating the stats and counting the hospital beds are "in on it" (imagine the size of the whatsapp group), then what do they not understand? who would be orchestrating and for what reason restricting our freedom (and their own if they actually care to follwo the rules)? or are they just trying to annoy us by controlling us? the classic substrate of CT is always that there are malicious, hidden forces at play. factor in that and it all makes sense when encountering these types of arguments. i.e we are either restricting freedom temporarily for the greater good or something insideous and malevolant is at play.

 

[ddraig]

Covid: Swansea's Cinema & Co ordered to close by judge

Boss Anna Redfern is told to shut her business after refusing to ask for Covid passes.

www.bbc.co.uk

More loonery in the Swansea cinema case! and a bit of right wing involvement too

Ms Redfern refused to comply with Welsh government rules, claiming they were "unfair" and "killing the entertainment industry".
Ms Redfern was in court for Tuesday's hearing at Swansea magistrates, and ordered to pay the city council's legal costs of £5,265.
Ms Redfern told the court: "I don't want to pay for it."
Judge Neale Thomas told Ms Redfern she should "stop listening to the siren voices" advising her.
The order will remain for 56 days or until the business implements Covid regulations.
Ms Redfern, representing herself, told the court the council's closure order was "unlawful" and she had no case to answer.

Judge Thomas said he received "expansive, semi-literate ramblings" from someone claiming to be acting for Ms Redfern.

A BBC Wales cameraman and reporter trying to speak with her were kept at a distance and filmed by four or five men wearing jackets with "Voice of Wales" logos.
This year, Voice of Wales was banned from YouTube for breaching its terms of service after being accused of using "racist", "foul" and "unacceptable" language.

 

[BigMoaner]

deeper structures of insitution mistrust is also at the foundations of this stuff. decades of undermining, slamming, wrecking, public (and some private) insitutions, largely by a right wing press. Anything set up big and powerful to serve the many, unless its teh fucking army, slowly drip drip attacked until anyone without sense hates them all. This stuff is at just at the extreme end of that, manifesting as a symptom, and thus: "they are all in on it."

 

[Supine]

DELTA + OMICRON is an anagram of MEDIA CONTROL

coincidence?

 

[BigMoaner]

DELTA + OMICRON is an anagram of MEDIA CONTROL

coincidence?

 

[cupid_stunt]

Covid: Swansea's Cinema & Co ordered to close by judge

Boss Anna Redfern is told to shut her business after refusing to ask for Covid passes.

www.bbc.co.uk

More loonery in the Swansea cinema case! and a bit of right wing involvement too

I had never heard about 'Voice of Wales' until a few days ago, they made a complaint about Wales Online calling them “far right”, the press watchdog rejected the complaint.

A political group’s claim that a journalist inaccurately branded it “far right” has been dismissed by the press watchdog.

Stan Robinson went to the Independent Press Watchdog on behalf of Voice of Wales over a Wales Online story which reported on an election count some of its members had attended.

Mr Robinson claimed the story had inaccurately referred to the group as “far right” because he associated this term to be associated with authoritarian, extremist, and anti-democratic politics, which he denied reflected the values of the group.

But IPSO backed Wales Online after it provided evidence of the group’s views on a number of different issues.

IPSO rejects Voice of Wales complaint against Wales Online - Journalism News from HoldtheFrontPage

Title provided numerous examples of members' views

www.holdthefrontpage.co.uk

 

[BigMoaner]

I had never heard about 'Voice of Wales' until a few days ago, they made a complaint about Wales Online calling them “far right”, the press watchdog rejected the complaint.

IPSO rejects Voice of Wales complaint against Wales Online - Journalism News from HoldtheFrontPage

Title provided numerous examples of members' views

www.holdthefrontpage.co.uk

classic far right/extremist lack of self awareness. always the very last to call themselves far right.

 

[rubbershoes]

Seen on a mate's FB page (not posted by mate himself, I hasten to add). At first I thought this was a parody...

View attachment 298906

But then he went on...

View attachment 298907

At first I just laughed. Then I looked at his profile (not under his real name - he knows what they're up to! Having said that, neither am I...). It's just post after post of conspiraloon nonsense, from Hillary Clinton being a clone to some kind of new age spiral cult that reminded me of the Call of the Yeti in Mighty Boosh ('The rhythms of the forest flow through me - and they can flow through you too').

It's not that surprising really, that this bollocks appeals to lonely vulnerable people, perhaps with learning difficulties, and makes them feel like they're stronger and more perceptive than everyone else. I bet he has no idea what ivermectin or midazolam are.

You should point out that it should be "could have" not "could of"

Let them do their research on that

 

[SpineyNorman]

Well fortunately for the rest of us you're just an angry little man on the internet. I think I'll leave you alone to wank over your man-of-steel dictator fantasies, Comrade.

I'm not sure mandating a vaccine to protect against a potentially deadly virus is quite the same as gulags and canal building but if it makes you feel better...

 

[nogojones]

How fear fuels the vaccine wars

Interesting to hear people's views on this. Well balanced in my opinion of course, and sums up my thoughts on where we are. Hopefully it can be read and not denounced as 'tin-foil' loonery.

Altough reading SpineyNorman's CCP maturbationary thoughts above, it may be in the wrong thread.

Quoting unheard. FFS. Could you not find spiked?

 

[cupid_stunt]

Quoting unheard. FFS. Could you not find spiked?

I see UnHerd is funded by Paul Marshall, who also funds GB News to the tune of £10m so far.

Great source, Griff.

 

[Griff]

I see UnHerd is funded by Paul Marshall, who also funds GB News to the tune of £10m so far.

Great source, Griff.

Don't know much about it to be honest, saw my old mate from school David Matthews had something on there the other day, hardly a right wing nutter. Never heard of or looked at Spiked by the way.

Anyway views on the content? It all seems to be about the source so far.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Anyway views on the content? It all seems to be about the source so far.

I just scrolled down to see what his conclusion was, and that was a load bollocks, so I've not bothered to read the rest

We are in a revolutionary moment. Societies are being transformed, with no public discussion and no consent, into a version of a Silicon Valley nerd’s wet dreams. Unless we can reach some form of synthesis soon — unless the sheeple can address the fears of the covidiots, and vice versa — then we risk being blinded to where the real power lies, and what is being constructed around us as we bicker and insult and pontificate.

From a UK perspective, we are not at a revolutionary moment, society has only been transformed temporarily due a fucking pandemic, there's been plenty of public discussion, and most people have consented.

And, frankly I couldn't give a shit about the covidiots, they're just a tiny minority and happen to be very noisy, but are basically pointless.

 

[elbows]

If there is a more permanent transformation then it could be something good coming out of a tragedy that left a big footprint on the public, like the great war. And that will take some time.

 

[8ball]

Anyway views on the content?

The optimism of urbanites has been perking me up this week.

 

[LDC]

Anyway views on the content? It all seems to be about the source so far.

What I said earlier on the content is, "It would be an essay going through it making out why it's bollocks. He'd have been better off with a good editor as well, and what he says isn't original, nor is it as simple as he says it is, and it's also devoid of political analysis beyond 'freedom is good'. It's not 'tinfoil hat loonery' it's more of the 'I alone dare speak the truth against the establishment' kind of Spiked stuff. Fucking boring rather than eye opening."

It's massively hyperbolic. There's no 'mass internment' of people. No 'freedom after freedom stripped away'. He sets up this over-dramatic premise and then sets up to be a voice questioning it all against what he says is massive silence, which is complete bollocks - plenty of papers, the media, and half the fucking internet are saying much of what he says. It's typical Spiked style stuff, and he's a proper thick as pigshit dickhead for following that well trodden white upper-middle-class man with a 'good' education but a small brain, chip on his shoulder, and with access to a loudhailer path. He's some bastard love child of a Katie Hopkins and Brendan O'Neill mash-up style hippie cunt.

He also does veer into conspiracy theory territory claiming people being stopped spreading mis-information on social media is some great silencing of dissent. And loads more. And anyone that starts capitalizing things like Narrative raises my eyebrows. Oh, and he doesn't miss a chance to have a dig at 'the Left' as authoritarians in waiting. Nice.

It's wrong, predictable, boring, and of course sets himself up as this Great Voice (Man) of Sensible Reason, standing courageously against the descent into tyranny.

Actually on second skim reading he's more of a cunt than I thought he was on the first.

HTH.

 

[elbows]

This is of more concern to me than the bogus concerns about pandemic legislation, although unfortunately I only have a Monbiot article to hand right now, with lots of hyperbole:

Jailed for 51 weeks for protesting? Britain is becoming a police state by stealth | George Monbiot

The government’s back-door amendments to the policing bill are tyrannical. We should be on the streets in our millions, says Guardian columnist George Monbiot

www.theguardian.com

 

[8ball]

This is of more concern to me than the bogus concerns about pandemic legislation, although unfortunately I only have a Monbiot article to hand right now, with lots of hyperbole:

Jailed for 51 weeks for protesting? Britain is becoming a police state by stealth | George Monbiot

The government’s back-door amendments to the policing bill are tyrannical. We should be on the streets in our millions, says Guardian columnist George Monbiot

www.theguardian.com

Just don't look at the comments.

 

[elbows]

Just don't look at the comments.

Havent looked at comments on media articles for many years.