Discussion: UK anti-vaxx 'freedom' morons, protests and QAnon idiots

[_Russ_]

Oh dear, I don't look at here for 24 hours, and in the intervening time you seem to have lost the plot.

Where are you going to 'jump out' to?

This is probably (IMO) the least helpful aspect of this forum, once the crowd have labelled a User then even when they make a valid point that would be quite ok from one of their mates the usual clever dicks pile in with smart put downs, its very school playground

 

[LDC]

This is probably (IMO) the least helpful aspect of this forum, once the crowd have labelled a User then even when they make a valid point that would be quite ok from one of their mates the usual clever dicks pile in with smart put downs, its very school playground

I try and just go with, and then reply to, what people write, and with this person if they come out with what they have done then it's hard not to be quite harsh. And I genuinely am interested in what they mean when they say 'jump out' - like from the forums here, 'normal life'... something else?

And let's remember that so far nearly 5.5 million people have died worldwide and over 150,000 here in the UK (mostly of the most vulnerable in society) so is it really surprising that someone moaning about the most minimal measures to protect everyone is given short shrift?

 

[cupid_stunt]

This is probably (IMO) the least helpful aspect of this forum, once the crowd have labelled a User then even when they make a valid point that would be quite ok from one of their mates the usual clever dicks pile in with smart put downs, its very school playground

Are you feeling picked on, because of some of the reactions to your posts?

The reactions on here towards the few posters that have posted complete nonsense, has kept this corner of the internet relatively free from loons, and long may that continue.

 

[BigMoaner]

This is probably (IMO) the least helpful aspect of this forum, once the crowd have labelled a User then even when they make a valid point that would be quite ok from one of their mates the usual clever dicks pile in with smart put downs, its very school playground

i think his paranoia that we are all marching blindly to china style totalitarianism because of a global fight against a deadly pandemic was enough for people.

 

[BigMoaner]

I try and go and then reply with what people say, and to some extent with them if they come out with what they have done then it's hard not to be quite harsh with them. And with that person, I genuinely am interested in what they mean when they say 'jump out' - like from the forums here, 'normal life'... something else?

i've had loads of debates at work with mainly right wingers who come out with stuff like "it's a bit overblown, init?" or "surely we can end lockdown sooner" etc.

the debates have been fine, respectful, normal. based in a sense of reality.

they however never ever said that "our freedoms will be keep getting stripped away until we end up china if we dont act now".

 

[existentialist]

This is probably (IMO) the least helpful aspect of this forum, once the crowd have labelled a User then even when they make a valid point that would be quite ok from one of their mates the usual clever dicks pile in with smart put downs, its very school playground

Well, nobody's got a gun to your head. If the place is so awful, you know where the door is.

But if you're expecting to barrel up here as a n00b, and have all your precious sensibilities wrapped in cotton wool and pandered to, then you are in for a world of disappointment. Instead of demanding we fit your expectations, perhaps you'd be better off taking a step back and questioning those expectations instead.

The "crowd" you see is formed of people who, just like you, joined an established community, and found their niche within it. In some cases (dear departed JuanTwoThree being a case in point, amongst others), that process was very quick. That was to do with them, not Urban.

And playing the victim will achieve precisely the opposite of what you're claiming to want.

 

[NoXion]

No. No I'm not ok. Not with this and neither will I ever be.

OK, let's run with this. What do you think that large events and venues should be doing in order to protect their punters from infection with a highly infectious and potentially deadly novel disease? Because if they don't take any measures, then their activities will be helping to spread the disease.

So go on then, what's your alternative?

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

OK, let's run with this. What do you think that large events and venues should be doing in order to protect their punters from infection with a highly infectious and potentially deadly novel disease? Because if they don't take any measures, then their activities will be helping to spread the disease.

So go on then, what's your alternative?

If you want protection take the vaccine.

 

[two sheds]

that's it? No masks, no social distancing, no proper ventilation?

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

that's it? No masks, no social distancing, no proper ventilation?

If a private venue wants to implement those policies then that is up to them. I am opposed to government mandates and vaccine passports. That's been my position all along.

 

[two sheds]

How about government mandates on for example seatbelts? Do you wear a seatbelt when driving or being a passenger?

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

How about government mandates on for example seatbelts? Do you wear a seatbelt when driving or being a passenger?

I don't inject a seatbelt into my body. Seatbelts are a temporary inconvenience. Vaccines are a whole different thing, and it is completely unethical to force people to repeatedly put something in their body that we still do not have the long-term data on. So let people decide individually what to do. If you are worried about the virus more than you are the vaccine then take the vaccine. I have.

 

[StoneRoad]

Or wearing a crash helmet when riding a motorbike. ItWillNeverWork ?

[that was heavily resisted when first suggested & then made a legal requirement]

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Or wearing a crash helmet when riding a motorbike. ItWillNeverWork ?

[that was heavily resisted when first suggested & then made a legal requirement]

Same answer as above.

 

[two sheds]

Masks are a temporary inconvenience, so why are you against masks?

Private companies not taking simple precautions against the spread of coronavirus will effectively be injecting the virus in people who visit. We do know the long term effects of that, some of which are death.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Masks are a temporary inconvenience, so why are you against masks?

Private companies not taking simple precautions against the spread of coronavirus will effectively be injecting the virus in people who visit. We do know the long term effects of that, some of which are death.

I never said I was against masks. And like I said, if you are worried about the virus take the vaccine.

 

[NoXion]

If you want protection take the vaccine.

What about the people who cannot take the vaccine? Don't they deserve to be able to take part in society like the rest of us?

 

[two sheds]

I never said I was against masks. And like I said, if you are worried about the virus take the vaccine.

And my second question?

 

[BigMoaner]

Or wearing a crash helmet when riding a motorbike. ItWillNeverWork ?

[that was heavily resisted when first suggested & then made a legal requirement]

like smoking in doors. few would reverse that now.

but yeah, china or somethign.

 

[NoXion]

Also, how are venues going to check if the people coming in are vaccinated or not? Seems like a vaccine passport, as in a universal standard for confirming vaccination status, would be a good fit for such a role.

 

[StoneRoad]

Masks are a temporary inconvenience, so why are you against masks?

Private companies not taking simple precautions against the spread of coronavirus will effectively be injecting the virus in people who visit. We do know the long term effects of that, some of which are death.

ref your 2nd Q two sheds ...

My staff say that they are all vaccinated, up to and including boosters, as appropriate.
I have encouraged that as much as I can.
The only vaxx hold-out tendered their resignation when asked to wear a mask instead, when working indoors.

Working in close proximity is not normally practised, but when Omicron appears locally, or the local case rate rises ..
I'll strongly suggest wearing masks and encourage other precautions, again. [not that we've really stopped].

Any of our very rare visitors get offered hand sanitiser and a mask on arrival [details recorded and quietly asked their vaxx status] ...

 

[BigMoaner]

I'm not even sure about vacinne mandates etc myself. only because we have infantile swaths who cannot bear the idea of something as inoucous as a vacinne being put into their precious, atomised, me me me bodies. we ahve to make room for them, sadly. we have to make hospital bed room for them too, sadly, ever increasingly. the vacinne, or the social pressure to take it, evil to them, but not the hospital treatment that comes from teh same establishment, as they breath their last.

 

[nogojones]

If you want protection take the vaccine.

So maybe vaccine passports would be a good way of ensuring those in the venue had the vaccine?

 

[existentialist]

If a private venue wants to implement those policies then that is up to them. I am opposed to government mandates and vaccine passports. That's been my position all along.

Then you're wrong. Any challenge like this isn't solved by one single action - it requires a co-ordinated package of measures that address the issue on multiple fronts. To think otherwise is to be naively idealistic.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

What about the people who cannot take the vaccine? Don't they deserve to be able to take part in society like the rest of us?

This is a more complex question of course, and there are no easy answers. Some points to make that though are that the number of people in this situation is fairly low, and that they are also at risk from other people who are vaccinated, as the vaccine does not prevent you from either getting the virus or passing it on (although it does of course reduce the risk of infection and hospitalisation). The question then is how we weight one risk against another.

Is the risk to society of changing the relationship between state and individual greater than the risk of allowing people to make their own vaccine decisions? I would argue that if we put in place a precedent where the state is able to override your bodily-autonomy then this opens the door for all sorts of horrific policies in the century to come.

Is the risk of the virus greater than the risk of putting in place technological infrastructure (tracking apps, etc) that could, if the wrong people get in charge, make an authoritarian, survelilance state a real possibility?

How do we weigh these risks? I honstly don't know, but I haven't heard anyone even attempt to.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

And my second question?

On proper ventilation? I have no problem with that.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Is the risk of the virus greater than the risk of putting in place technological infrastructure (tracking apps, etc) that could, if the wrong people get in charge, make an authoritarian, survelilance state a real possibility?

They can already track your mobile phone, without any app installed.

 

[BigMoaner]

This is a more complex question of course, and there are no easy answers. Some points to make that though are that the number of people in this situation is fairly low, and that they are also at risk from other people who are vaccinated, as the vaccine does not prevent you from either getting the virus or passing it on (although it does of course reduce the risk of infection and hospitalisation). The question then is how we weight one risk against another.

Is the risk to society of changing the relationship between state and individual greater than the risk of allowing people to make their own vaccine decisions? I would argue that if we put in place a precedent where the state is able to override your bodily-autonomy then this opens the door for all sorts of horrific policies in the century to come.

Is the risk of the virus greater than the risk of putting in place technological infrastructure (tracking apps, etc) that could, if the wrong people get in charge, make an authoritarian, survelilance state a real possibility?

How do we weigh these risks? I honstly don't know, but I haven't heard anyone even attempt to.

i think a virus, identified by all the top scientific institutions in the world and the measures put in place will somehow not lead to us having to gouge eyeballs out or remove limbs in "horrific policies in teh century to come."

your position is an extremist one.

 

[BigMoaner]

They can already track your mobile phone, without any app installed.

worst global cabal EVER!

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

So maybe vaccine passports would be a good way of ensuring those in the venue had the vaccine?

If I have had the vaccine myself, why would I care that you haven't?