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Discussion: UK anti-vaxx 'freedom' morons, protests and QAnon idiots

That's why this stuff can appear superficially attractive and draw at least some people in.

Who can really object to the call for governments to start working for the people and stop working for the elite agenda, or the demand to jail Matt Hancock for crimes against humanity?

Even jailing Bill Gates doesn't seem that unreasonable, TBH
i wish the people who think this is a government conspiracy would realise that it is only in their dreams that the government would be competent enough to do something like that. and yes i do think hancock should be jailed, in preparation for his journey to points south. it's the cognitive dissonance between the government and billionaires being able to come up with some great secret endeavour and see it through on the one hand and the inability of the government to achieve what it commits to in public on the other which really riles me.
 
So depressing:

One woman in her 20s, who was wearing a hoodie with a QAnon logo, told the Observer that she had come to the rally because she had read about the child abuse taking place across the US and the UK, a chief QAnon trope.

Another protester, Emma, 25, said she had a young daughter. She was holding a placard suggesting hundreds of thousands of children had been abducted around the world. “I’ve done years of research,” she said. “QAnon are right. There’s a global elite out there going for our children. Trump is taking down the elite and draining the swamp.”

She was dismissive of the government’s response to Covid. “The government is trying to take away our constitutional rights. You don’t need vaccination, you need to live well, eat well.”

She also believed that Black Lives Matter was funded by George Soros, the Jewish financier who funds a number of major civil society initiatives. “He’s a Zionist,” she said without further explanation.


*title edited for clarity
 
Decent article here

Here’s where we get way out into conspiracy theory. There is simply no evidence that Bill Gates has any plans to implant microchips into human beings.

He has discussed the possibility of digital health certificates in interviews, but this is a world away from implants that track people’s movements.

Gates himself has said: “I’ve never been involved in any microchip type thing. It is good to know which kids have had a measles vaccine and which have not, so there are data systems and… health records that people use to track that… but there’s no chips or anything like that.

“It’s almost hard to deny this stuff, because it’s so stupid or strange, that to even to repeat almost seems to give it credibility.”

Is this really about the coronavirus?
We slid from health passports to Bill Gates pretty quickly there, and in fact it’s clear that StandUpX have a number of preoccupations that go way beyond the government’s response to Covid-19.

They also want to “take down 5G” – that’s the new mobile phone network which has inspired a host of bizarre conspiracy theories.
StandUpX say: “5G is necessary for the infrastructure of 24/7 Surveillance Tracking & Implantable Microchips.”

It’s hard to know what to do with a claim like this, other than noting that there is no evidence for any of it.

StandUpX repeat the widely debunked claim that large numbers of trees are being felled to make way for 5G transmitters.

 
Decent article here


Crazy shit. Governments have always lied, but people still aren't really used to a Government that lies quite so continuously and remorselessly without being held to any account, so they jump to any old shit.

Haven't run into anyone who believes this brand of shite yet, fortunately.
 
I know a couple of these idiots. (Although i've not heard them say "qanon".) One of my facebook "friends" has been posting the "pedo conspiracy" stuff in my news feed recently. Also someone at my work is into the "anti-vax" nonsense. I tried to argue with her about it but she sent me a David Icke you tube video so i gave up. She also refuses to be "zapped" in the forehead by my bosses infra red temperature gun thingy as she read it would give her brain cancer or something.
 
She also refuses to be "zapped" in the forehead by my bosses infra red temperature gun thingy as she read it would give her brain cancer or something.

That kind of thing is one of the most depressing things about it, the complete lack of any scientific understanding at almost just a common sense level.

I think its growth is partly related to that too, a reaction to the world being increasingly fast, technological, and complex, and so hard to make sense of or explain how even basic everyday items work, and for some people that tips over into a generalized fear and mistrust, (edited to add: especially if they are vulnerable or have had issues around trust or are traumatized by something in their life already.)
 
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That kind of thing is one of the most depressing things about it, the complete lack of any scientific understanding at almost just a common sense level.

I think its growth is partly related to that too, a reaction to the world being increasingly fast, technological, and complex, and so hard to make sense of or explain how even basic everyday items work, and for some people that tips over into a generalized fear and mistrust, (edited to add: especially if they are vulnerable or have had issues around trust or are traumatized by something in their life already.)

Or (and I know this is unfeeling and hopefully I would act sympathetically confronted with an actual instance, but the whole thing boils my piss) they are as thick as bucket of boiled shit.
 
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Years ago now, post 9-11, IIRC butchersapron posted some kind of pamphlet about counteracting conspiracy theories, I think the context was regarding community politics in black US communities.... Id like to look at that again if anyone remembers it
I wonder what else theres is out there like that
How to effectively counteract conspiracy theories is a really important topic
 
A foundation is very different from a charity. The way they operate in the US is very dodgy indeed. That's foundations in general mind you, I don't know much about Gates' in particular.

Mark Zuckerberg’s much vaunted “charitable foundation” is clearly used to garner power and influence, including commercial, in various territories so some cynicism is fully justified.
 
How to effectively counteract conspiracy theories is a really important topic

It certainly is, if this is true...

Yasmin Qureshi, Labour MP for Bolton South East, said many people in the area believed the virus was a fake, government-constructed concept and as a result were refusing to adhere to social distancing guidelines. “There is a lot of confusion about the virus in the area and there are a lot of people now who do not believe it is true,” she said.

Qureshi added: “They genuinely believe it’s some kind of conspiracy. A lot of them don’t understand the rules either and so there are many who just aren’t following them – they think it is a way of controlling them somehow. It is very dangerous.”

One resident, Hayley Brandwood, whose young son was tested for the virus earlier this week, said many people were deliberately breaking the rules, bolstered by #thinkingforyourself. The hashtag has taken off in local forums in Bolton, used by people who are not following the rules and criticising others for doing so.

 
Years ago now, post 9-11, IIRC butchersapron posted some kind of pamphlet about counteracting conspiracy theories, I think the context was regarding community politics in black US communities.... Id like to look at that again if anyone remembers it
I wonder what else theres is out there like that
How to effectively counteract conspiracy theories is a really important topic
Sounds like it may have been this one How to Overthrow the Illuminati ?
Illuminati theory helps oppressed people to explain our experiences in the hood. Society throws horrible stuff in our faces: our family members get locked up for bullshit. Our friends kill each other over beefs, money or turf. Our future is full of dead-end jobs that don’t pay shit. We struggle to pay bills while others live in luxury. On TV, we see people all over the world dying in poverty, even though we live in the most materially abundant society in history. Most people act like none of these terrible things are happening. Why does this occur? We start looking for answers, and Illuminati theory provides one.

We believe Illuminati theory is wrong, and we wrote this pamphlet to offer a different answer. We wrote this pamphlet because we know people who think about the Illuminati usually want to stop oppression and exploitation. They’re some of the smartest people in the hood today. Forty years ago, Illuminati theorists would’ve been in the Black Panther Party. Today most of them sit around and talk endlessly about conspiracies. This is a waste of talent.
 
Just been getting some of this on my road's whatsapp group. "They're controlling you, think of the kids, do your research, don't try and shut me down".
There was the glimmering of some local solidarity on there and now it's just mudslinging. So sad :(
 
Would be interesting to know how many of the people now not trusting the government actually voted for them. :hmm:
Ah well yes the Illuminati aren't actually part of the government, they're a secret all powerful group that really control everything behind the scenes and the elected government are just as powerless as the plebs. Save in America where they have elected Donald J Trump who is tirelessly working to defend the common man against the Joos, the Lizard People, the Deep State and save the mole people and the kidnapped children.
Seriously given how many separate secret groups are contending for power behind the scenes, It's no wonder fuck all actually gets done.
 
Just been getting some of this on my road's whatsapp group. "They're controlling you, think of the kids, do your research, don't try and shut me down".
There was the glimmering of some local solidarity on there and now it's just mudslinging. So sad :(
Defused with some "no need to label people, hard to understand intents in text, let's just focus on the issues about our road" but I'm going to find it hard looking some people in the eye.

It's so depressing. There's no end in sight for the growth of this sort of sentiment and I only see it ending in fascism :(
 
Interesting stuff about the speakers at the fuckwit rally in London

Several speakers at Saturday’s event were listed as “Doctors”, giving a gloss of scientific credibility to proceedings.

One, Dr Niall McCrae, a lecturer at King's College London, is also a Brexit campaigner associated with anti-EU think tank the Bruges Group.

Last year, Kings’ College Students’ Union issued an official statement about its allegations regarding McCrae’s conduct:

“There is a video of Dr McCrae apparently verbally abusing a black Remain campaigner at a Brexit Party rally...and poking him with a Union Jack on a flagpole, while another person throws water on the Remain campaigner."


The Students’ Union statement continues: "Dr McCrae has expressed harmful views in the past, including calling for the burqa to be banned, co-writing an article referring to LGBT+ activists as the “Gaystapo”, and co-authoring a booklet supporting the antisemitic conspiracy theory alongside Islamophobic allegations…”
The Guardian followed up, naming the “Remain campaigner” as activist Femi Oluwole, and noting the video appeared to show McCrae calling him a “f*****g traitor”.
Another ardent right-winger and Brexiteer who spoke at the rally is Prof Dolores Cahill. Cahill chairs the Irish Freedom Party, which grew out of a 2018 “Irexit” summit attended by Nigel Farage.
Last year, Cahill had to resign from a scientific body over her claims that lockdown and social distancing were unnecessary even for those with underlying conditions, and that those who recovered were “immune for life”.

The Dublin School of Medicine, where she works, disassociated itself from these claims, while the European Commission, a partner of the committee from which she resigned, said they could cause “significant harm” if followed.

So, neither McRae nor Cahill are practising as medical doctors, and both are politically-interested right-wingers, one of whom has been censured and the other apparently investigated by their professional institutions.
D r Cassie Madej is an American osteopath who believes in transhumanism – and hold onto your tinfoil hats, because this isn’t the plot of an episode of Black Mirror but the serous suggestion hat sinister forces want to turn humans into “genetically modified organisms” and “create a new species”, using vaccines as part of their diabolical scheme.
Sherri Tenpenny is another American osteopath and anti-vaxxer, approved by Alex Jones (sued for claiming the Sandy Hook school shooting was staged). Tenpenny has guested on his Infowars channel.
Kate Shemirani, the MC of yesterday’s proceedings, is a nurse currently suspended by the Nursing Council for claiming the virus is fake. Shemirani believes NO vaccine has ever worked, and says she cured her own cancer with mistletoe injections and coffee enemas.
Mark Steele, definitely not the left-wing comedian, is an anti-5G “activist” alleged to have raised tens of thousands for this “cause” without visible results. He was convicted in 2018 of harassing Gateshead councillors over the issue.
A spokesman for the Tyne and Wear Anti-fascist Association told me Steele is “well connected” with the far right in the area. A photograph taken last year shows him with a group including an EDL member, and a man well-known to anti-fascists, who calls himself “Jack Dawkins”.

 
It's so depressing. There's no end in sight for the growth of this sort of sentiment and I only see it ending in fascism :(

It's looking increasingly likely, yes. But it won't be like the fascism of yesteryear. It's constantly evolving and shifting but authoritarianism is most certainly a common thread that is growing in strength worldwide.
 
I know a couple of these idiots. (Although i've not heard them say "qanon".) One of my facebook "friends" has been posting the "pedo conspiracy" stuff in my news feed recently. Also someone at my work is into the "anti-vax" nonsense. I tried to argue with her about it but she sent me a David Icke you tube video so i gave up. She also refuses to be "zapped" in the forehead by my bosses infra red temperature gun thingy as she read it would give her brain cancer or something.

It’s not that it gives you brain cancer. The concern is the infra-red beam from the temperature reader will damage the pineal gland. That’s the concern people have. It comes from an Australian nurse.

It’s very easy to debunk this, because the temperature reader doesn’t emit infrared, it reads infrared emissions i.e. heat.

Plenty of people might “yeah-but” you if you respond with the facts, but one or two might listen.

It’s worth knowing/understanding what the nonsense claim is and where it comes from so that it can be countered if possible. I’ve successfully managed it a few times. You only have to sew a seed of doubt and use their own gambit of “do your research” to make a difference. I reckon it’s worth it, if only for one or two people.

I had a read of a Reddit page where people were talking about how they used to be troo believers and eventually came out of it. Really interesting to see their accounts of how it happens, how all encompassing the belief system becomes and how they escape it.
 
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