Discussion: UK anti-vaxx 'freedom' morons, protests and QAnon idiots

[Johnny Doe]

There's different things going on here though isn't there. The majority of the people you see who maybe aren't wearing a mask when they should or not social distancing or whatever aren't hardcore anti-vaxxers who are marching round comparing themselves to Holocaust victims. Most of them have probably been vaccinated and will have done the right thing to various degrees over the last 18 months but find ways of justifying their behaviours to themselves, consistently or not. And TBH most people probably sit somewhere on that scale if you're not locking yourself away. The 'freedom' loon element is much smaller.

Yeah, for example, I hadn't planned on going in Asda yesterday, when I was out for a walk and then got a message from Mrs Smiles asking me to get a few bits needed for dinner. Didn't have a mask on me, asked if they had any spare ones at the first desk inside and they didn't. I've been double jabbed, generally carfeul, so I went and got what I needed as quick as I could and avoided going near anyone as much as possible. It would have been easy for someone vunerable look and think I just didn't care, but I did think about it, and tried to mitigate the risk to myself and others as best I could.

 

[kabbes]

When I’ve been out and about in the last month — shops, public transport etc — I’ve been wearing my mask > 95% of the time. But there are always some times the mask slips, so to speak. Maybe I’ve been caught out without having it on me and decide to buy a loaf of bread anyway. Or I’m sitting in the train and my glasses have steamed up and I just want a few minutes for them to recover. None of that is ideal but it happens. But if you’d seen me in those moments, you might conclude I am some kind of vehement anti-masker who doesn’t get it or doesn’t care about others. In short, maybe not all the people you see without a mask on are ideologically opposed to wearing one.

 

[editor]

Pleasing to see just how little support the anti vaxx twats actually have in a crowd that size.

 

[keybored]

Of course there were. Things didn't suddenly get this way, it's been growing for decades, if not centuries. I'm even tempted to say that this kind of "not the boss of me" individualism is about the most British thing ever, except I'm sure it's as bad elsewhere and we can't necessarily claim it as our own.

I've just got back from Murcia, where there is still a policy of mandatory face coverings while in indoor public spaces.

In supermarkets and other shops, everyone wears a mask (bar very small children) and they wear them properly - no noses poking over the top or removing them briefly to sneeze or whatever other fuckery I've seen in the UK. I think in Spain you need an actual medical exemption and a card from the doctor to prove that you are unable to wear a mask, rather than just self-certifying, which I think a whole load of people took advantage of here. Either that or the Spanish people are just more socially responsible.

 

[hitmouse]

What are the conspiracy anti-vaxxers saying about the booster doses being talked about? A new battery for the tracking chip? Some upgrade? Vaguely interested what the more lunatic fringe say as they must have had to create a story around it.

My anti-vax housemate sort of tried to goad me into a conversation about it the other week, asking me if I thought I might end up needing to have a booster shot every year, I just went "what, like some people already have for the flu? Yeah, maybe."

Police break up clashes between anti-vaxx protesters and public in Manchester

Manchester Orange parade was the weekend before:

Dunno what the odds of it would be, but I would seriously pay good money to watch the antivaxxers somehow end up in a fight with the Orange Order.

There's different things going on here though isn't there. The majority of the people you see who maybe aren't wearing a mask when they should or not social distancing or whatever aren't hardcore anti-vaxxers who are marching round comparing themselves to Holocaust victims. Most of them have probably been vaccinated and will have done the right thing to various degrees over the last 18 months but find ways of justifying their behaviours to themselves, consistently or not. And TBH most people probably sit somewhere on that scale if you're not locking yourself away. The 'freedom' loon element is much smaller.

Yeah, tbh there has been a lot of "get vaccinated so you can go back to normal!" messaging, so you can't really blame people who've been vaccinated feeling like they can start to get back to normal.

 

[Dogsauce]

Yeah, tbh there has been a lot of "get vaccinated so you can go back to normal!" messaging, so you can't really blame people who've been vaccinated feeling like they can start to get back to normal.

I also reckon a lot of younger people who’ve had it probably don’t see the point in taking any precautions as they’re unlikely to come to harm or pass it on, but it doesn’t set a good examples to others who still present a risk. It should be done out of solidarity even if not needed.

 

[two sheds]

Pleasing to see just how little support the anti vaxx twats actually have in a crowd that size.

Yep and you'd imagine people feel it keenly with that many inside and anti-vaxxers more likely to be spreading it round.

 

[scalyboy]

There's different things going on here though isn't there. The majority of the people you see who maybe aren't wearing a mask when they should or not social distancing or whatever aren't hardcore anti-vaxxers who are marching round comparing themselves to Holocaust victims. Most of them have probably been vaccinated and will have done the right thing to various degrees over the last 18 months but find ways of justifying their behaviours to themselves, consistently or not. And TBH most people probably sit somewhere on that scale if you're not locking yourself away. The 'freedom' loon element is much smaller.

Yes, I agree that most people not wearing masks probably aren’t rabid anti-vaxxers- but the result is the same, if someone isn’t wearing a mask they are potentially endangering others, doesn’t matter what their beliefs are.

A lot of people I reckon think masks are there to protect themselves, so if they’ve been vaxxed and aren’t vulnerable they don’t see the need - and as someone else says here, the government message has been ‘let’s get back to normal’ so many people are responding as if it’s all over.
I guess that’s why the infection rate is / was going up.

Maybe my thoughts on this are somewhat different to other peoples though, I had to shield last year and am designated ‘extremely vulnerable’ so a tube carriage half full of non-masked up people has an alarming effect.

 

[Johnny Doe]

Pleasing to see just how little support the anti vaxx twats actually have in a crowd that size.

That's why it's important not to give them oxygen. It's literally a handful of shouty loonspuds.

 

[Johnny Doe]

Yes, I agree that most people not wearing masks probably aren’t rabid anti-vaxxers- but the result is the same, if someone isn’t wearing a mask they are potentially endangering others, doesn’t matter what their beliefs are.

A lot of people I reckon think masks are there to protect themselves, so if they’ve been vaxxed and aren’t vulnerable they don’t see the need - and as someone else says here, the government message has been ‘let’s get back to normal’ so many people are responding as if it’s all over.
I guess that’s why the infection rate is / was going up.

Maybe my thoughts on this are somewhat different to other peoples though, I had to shield last year and am designated ‘extremely vulnerable’ so a tube carriage half full of non-masked up people has an alarming effect.

There's a couple of different things in there. Incidents of someone like me, in the example I gave above, where I made an impromptu supermarket visit, didn't have a mask and couldn't get one when I asked are sometimes going to happen. I'd imagine most tube journeys are planned, it would be rare to forget you need a mask, so you'd assume not wearing one was a pre-meditated choice.

 

[WouldBe]

That's why it's important not to give them oxygen. It's literally a handful of shouty loonspuds.

A vacuum would do that.

 

[Elpenor]

One confirmed anti-vaxxer. Had a long chat with him, decent guy, the subject didn’t come up. Found out afterwards.

And needless to say he was happy to take MDMA all night

 

[StoneRoad]

I keep a mask & a little bottle of good quality sanitiser in several places, my car, my outside coat, my work stuff and in the little rucksack I use to keep all my stuff together [keys, camera, phone, a notebook ...]

 

[Voley]

And needless to say he was happy to take MDMA all night

Guy I know used to bang on about weed being 'natural,' an 'Earth medicine,' 'not made in a lab,' etc. Also interested in microdosing LSD. Odd, that.

 

[cupid_stunt]

The wankers targeted Chichester Hospital Radio volunteers carrying out their annual street collection.

The charity's volunteers arrived at 9am after being handed a license from Chichester District Council but by 1pm another group began congregating and disrupting the fundraiser. One member of the anti-vax group was dressed in a black coat, black hoodie and black mask and Peter said the group had at times been intimidating.

"He was an individual who obviously didn't want to be identified. The first thing he said was 'you better move because we are going to have a demonstration'. I replied, 'We are licensed to be here for a street collection, we are not moving'. I don't think his interpersonal skills were very good as he didn't approach us in the friendliest way."

Over the next 45 minutes the group began to grow in numbers, Peter said, with some people armed with megaphones and placards which read 'can you trust the media?' and 'can you be sure the vaccine is 100 per cent safe?'

Anti-vaxxers 'disrupt' West Sussex hospital charity fundraiser

'Intimidating' anti-vaxxers descended on Chichester's Market Cross at the weekend, disrupting the fundraising efforts of a hospital charity.

www.worthingherald.co.uk

 

[two sheds]

Do we think we're looking at government introducing law criminalizing threatening behaviour aimed at emergency services?

Eta and will they include the police?

 

[klang]

When I’ve been out and about in the last month — shops, public transport etc — I’ve been wearing my mask > 95% of the time. But there are always some times the mask slips, so to speak. Maybe I’ve been caught out without having it on me and decide to buy a loaf of bread anyway. Or I’m sitting in the train and my glasses have steamed up and I just want a few minutes for them to recover. None of that is ideal but it happens. But if you’d seen me in those moments, you might conclude I am some kind of vehement anti-masker who doesn’t get it or doesn’t care about others. In short, maybe not all the people you see without a mask on are ideologically opposed to wearing one.

those anti-mask-loons have even spoilt the no-mask-wearing for us

 

[Elpenor]

Do we think we're looking at government introducing law criminalizing threatening behaviour aimed at emergency services?

Eta and will they include the police?

I can see there being demand for this, surprised it wasn’t part of the police and crime bill really

 

[LDC]

Do we think we're looking at government introducing law criminalizing threatening behaviour aimed at emergency services?

Eta and will they include the police?

Threatening behaviour is obviously already covered by a variety of laws, you mean a new law specific to emergency services/the NHS/etc. that would have harsher sentences or something?

 

[two sheds]

yes, or first offence eg with a restraining order not to demonstrate near them.

 

[scalyboy]

I keep a mask & a little bottle of good quality sanitiser in several places, my car, my outside coat, my work stuff and in the little rucksack I use to keep all my stuff together [keys, camera, phone, a notebook ...]

Me too; taking a mask when I go out has become the same as wallet, keys, phone.

 

[BigMoaner]

I'm not so sure that it's just a few isolated loons. these marches/demonstrations pop up everywhere - thats just the ones who have the means/will to attend. the facebook groups gets 10s of ks of likes and followers. everyone seems to know someone who has fallen down the rabit hole to a greater or less extent. imagine that many people saying "I know someone, a friend of mine, who has just joined the EDL". i would argue that these groups and patterns of thinking are just as damaging, if not more so, than an outfit like the EDL.

it's concerning, in my view. that we might have to factor in loon cake thinking for the feasable. that a loud and noisey conspiracy led "coalition" will fence of parts of public debate, whilst huge swaths of the general public will teeter on teh edge of this stuff, ready to fall into it any time.

as i've said repeatedly, watch like a hawk the right wing press. at the moment they seem fairly resiliant against this stuff. at the moment.

 

[BigMoaner]

..

 

[BigMoaner]

Not Getting Vaccinated to Own Your Fellow Libs

They’ve aligned themselves with forces they despise. But lefty anti-vaxxers don’t see the contradiction.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[two sheds]

I can see there being demand for this, surprised it wasn’t part of the police and crime bill really

Interesting to see how this goes. Risky strategy you'd think but on the other hand the cunts turning up at schools and hospitals need putting down really.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/legault-protests-vaccines-schools-hospitals-1.6185368

Quebec Premier François Legault says he will introduce a special bill to prevent anti-vaccination protests in front of places such as schools and hospitals because his "patience had reached its limit."

 

[hitmouse]

I can see there being demand for this, surprised it wasn’t part of the police and crime bill really

There is a bit about it in there already:

What is the Police and Crime Bill and how will it change protests?

New legislation that will change how protests are policed has passed through Parliament.

www.bbc.co.uk

"Maximum sentences for low-level assaults against emergency service workers doubled to two years" - quick search digs this up:

Assault on emergency workers in the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill: Equalities Impact Assessment

www.gov.uk

 

[BigMoaner]

There is a bit about it in there already:

What is the Police and Crime Bill and how will it change protests?

New legislation that will change how protests are policed has passed through Parliament.

www.bbc.co.uk

"Maximum sentences for low-level assaults against emergency service workers doubled to two years" - quick search digs this up:

Assault on emergency workers in the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill: Equalities Impact Assessment

www.gov.uk

they wont stand under that.

"send him down please, FFS"

 

[hitmouse]

Interesting to see how this goes. Risky strategy you'd think but on the other hand the cunts turning up at schools and hospitals need putting down really.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/legault-protests-vaccines-schools-hospitals-1.6185368

Fuck me, I'm actually in full agreement with the Conservative Party of Quebec politician quoted there.

In order for the bill to pass that fast, however, the government will also need the approval of the sole member of the Conservative Party of Quebec, Claire Samson, who was vague about her position.

"I am not against the principle," she said, explaining she believes society must protect people who want to visit hospitals and schools. "I don't think it's OK to try to bully or influence children."

But she expressed worry the bill could inadvertently restrict other demonstrations and says she is waiting to see its wording before making a decision.

"We'll wait to read what the government comes up with," she said. "If it's a special law, how far will it go? Are we going to stop nurses from doing sit-ins outside hospitals?"

 

[scalyboy]

Not Getting Vaccinated to Own Your Fellow Libs

They’ve aligned themselves with forces they despise. But lefty anti-vaxxers don’t see the contradiction.

www.theatlantic.com

"The anti-vax faction here has its roots in the left-libertarian politics of the Back to the Land movement, which flooded the area with the disaffected urban upper-middle class in the 1970s and ’80s. That influx of hippies and students, most of whom came from New York City, brought with it a political belief in naturopathy and a mistrust of institutional authority" - sounds like the US equivalent of the UK's hippies / ex-ravers / New Ager / alternative medicine people who appear to constitute much of the 'left/progressive' anti-vaxxer tendency.

 

[BigMoaner]

"The anti-vax faction here has its roots in the left-libertarian politics of the Back to the Land movement, which flooded the area with the disaffected urban upper-middle class in the 1970s and ’80s. That influx of hippies and students, most of whom came from New York City, brought with it a political belief in naturopathy and a mistrust of institutional authority" - sounds like the US equivalent of the UK's hippies / ex-ravers / New Ager / alternative medicine people who appear to constitute much of the 'left/progressive' anti-vaxxer tendency.

yes, a lot of tied up with strange spiritual beliefs, energies, etc. a lot of which just translates to "i'm a bit special and different to everyone else".