Discussion about UK politics forum

[the B]

You're all in denial, none of you have really admitted that you as a group or as individuals (as a group, you are for lack of a better way to describe you - the significant posters on UK P&P) make it a shit and inaccessible forum that a large group of people don't like.

It is filled with bollocks most people don't care about (SWP, Respect, Trots), you come across as nasty shits who sling abuse at the first sign of something you don't like and do so in a swarming manner.

 

[ernestolynch]

Hark at the Hogwarts prefects stamping their size-eights.

 

[atitlan]

There was a similar thread to this a few months ago, the same issues were discussed the same accusations made and nothing changed. Nothing will change this time either, the IWCA/SWP infighting is exactly the same thing as the conspiracy theorists and anti-conspiracy theorists on the World politics forum. It's moved beyond issues and is just an excuse for a select little band of posters to have an argument for the hell of it.

The only things I can see that might help are some heavy handed moderating to bin threads that turn into the standard slanging match or to split the forum into separate 'UK current affairs' and 'UK party politics forums'.

Two things strike me as being indicative of the state of that forum: first, that most of the current affairs threads now get started in general and secondly that a UK based board hasn't produced a thread of the quality of the "Petroleum Geologist" one in its domestic discussion forum.

 

[the B]

Not just heavy handed binning - but banning too...it'd go some way to helping certain people remember what a good post is...

 

[nosos]

And if the points about p&p on the whole are valid...why are the regular contributors (seemingly) so unwilling to do something about it?

Maybe the people who have a problem with it should do something about it!? Ffs!

And Teejay, seriously, grow a fucking back bone, mate.

Jesus.

 

[atitlan]

Not just heavy handed binning - but banning too...it'd go some way to helping certain people remember what a good post is...

Possibly, the world forum still has its problems but a couple of high profile bans and temporary bans did seem to calm things down and although things still descend into slanging matches there does seem to be more discussion per thread before the inevitable happens than was the case before those measures were taken.

 

[Corax]

Drugs Forum to the rescue

If required, I reckon Holt, Babyface, Meth & the rest of the drugged-up muppets on the Drugs Forum could be relied upon to derail any UKP&P thread that threatens to get nasty

Ern, the "hogwarts prefect" comment is either tongue-in-cheek, or you just need to grow the fuck up. I've never conversed with you on here (although I have read some of your posts with interest), so I'm hoping it's the former.

muppets on the drugs forum

including myself, btw

 

[the B]

I have a problem with it, not that serious a problem - this thread is part of trying to deal with it.

I think getting flimsier as a mod would help the problem too...

"grow a back bone" stuff is just the kind of the things that serves no purpose...

 

[nosos]

Well if you have a problem with it then make an effort to change the content of the forums by posting there in a style you find less offensive - rather than arrogantly dictating to people how they should and should not post there.

It serves no purpose? Yes it does, it's venting at twats who lie and give it out but can't take it. Whether or not you think it's a valuable purpose is a different matter.

 

[the B]

I am posting on threads quite often and in a style that is usually less offensive unless baited otherwise...

I think letting someone know what I (among others) would like to see is hardly 'dictating' and it's not doing it 'arrogantly'. Maybe I should stick pictures of fluffy kittens onto threads that get too heated? Maybe I should deliberately derail the heated mud slinging...what kind of direct action would you recommend?

I don't think escalating the amount of venting really helps the situation...I don't think TeeJay just vents on his accord for the sake of it and without any provoking...

 

[nosos]

I am posting on threads quite often and in a style that is usually less offensive unless baited otherwise...

Then carry on doing it and if others have a problem and do the same thing the content of the forums will change and become more acceptable to you.

As is, just posting criticisms of existing posters and telling them how they should act - as many on this thread have directly done - is pointless and dictatorial.

 

[atitlan]

...what kind of direct action would you recommend?

I don't think escalating the amount of venting really helps the situation...I don't think TeeJay just vents on his accord for the sake of it and without any provoking...

You can ignore threads which indicate that their going be be full of sectarian infighting, they contain SWP, IWCA, Respect or Trot in the thread title. The problem comes when a normal discussion gets derailed into sectarian infighting. You can't ignore it because of the sheer volume of posts, if you attempt to 'fight' against it you just make the signal to noise ratio worse. As soon as that happens the original discussion is dead.

 

[nosos]

As soon as that happens the original discussion is dead.

Who concieves of the set plan for the discussion to take - and if such a plan exists, surely that necessitates someone to enforce it?

 

[atitlan]

Who concieves of the set plan for the discussion to take - and if such a plan exists, surely that necessitates someone to enforce it?

When does thread drift become derailing?

 

[nosos]

When does thread drift become derailing?

When who ever has a problem with the direction the thread is taking starts bitching vocally enough .. do you see what I'm getting at?

 

[the B]

UK P&P is pretty busy, trying to completely swamp the forum with more polite posting is likely to fail (simply because the volume required in tremendous and has happened, people would rather stick the thread in General) and will also probably be met with mud slinging.

I think trying to change it by bringing in lots of new people posting what I think are better posts is ideal - but I'm well aware all the P&P regulars are capable of posting without mudslinging and don't see why they feel the need to sling mud to begin with...I'm pretty sure they can all stop it too and it's not an unreasonable request...I'm not trying to threaten or force them to so it's not really dictatorial - I'm in no position of power to try and exert my will either.

 

[nosos]

I'm not trying to threaten or force them to so it's not really dictatorial - I'm in no position of power to try and exert my will either.

By that logic, individual fascists aren't authoritarian because they don't have a position of power by which to exert there will .. why not just let people post how they want to post?

 

[atitlan]

When who ever has a problem with the direction the thread is taking starts bitching vocally enough .. do you see what I'm getting at?

To a point. But if you are bitching about the direction the thread is taking you are at least doing so with reference to what is under discussion. The SWP/IWCA arguments, like the CT ones in the world forum are no longer about any subject they are about personal issues between posters.

It's about seeing a particular poster active on a thread and attacking them with reference to their political allegience rather than the subject under discussion.

That's very different from what your talking about don't you think. It's like if I had made this reply by attacking you based a completely different debate we'd had in the past.

 

[the B]

So if I post to derail all the SWP/Respect/galloway/trot bashing threads or ones that descend into what I consider mudslinging is ok?

I think you're being a bit too selective with the quote - I'm making suggestions about how people should try and tone down (and even eliminate) the mudslinging - which ultimately adds nothing to the debate.

I'm not trying to threaten or be violent (verbally or otherwise) back - I'm discussing with them the possiblity of change - not imposing my will (ie. being a dictator or authority).

 

[nosos]

The SWP/IWCA arguments, like the CT ones in the world forum are no longer about any subject they are about personal issues between posters.

But that's in your point of view, mate - the posters engaged in said threads seem quite happy - if they weren't, why would they be posting on the threads? Why not let them just post how they want? That's the crux of the issue as far as I'm concerned - live and let live - rather than trying to impose a set view of how the forum should be structured on people who already post there.

 

[nosos]

I think you're being a bit too selective with the quote - I'm making suggestions about how people should try and tone down (and even eliminate) the mudslinging - which ultimately adds nothing to the debate.

Maybe, just maybe.. people enjoy it?

I'm not trying to threaten or be violent (verbally or otherwise) back - I'm discussing with them the possiblity of change - not imposing my will (ie. being a dictator or authority).

You have a problem with specific patterns of behaviour - by vocally criticising people engaging in those behaviours you're trying to exert an influence. Depending on what the behaviours are, there can be nothing wrong with that but I don't think that's the case here ..

 

[oisleep]

jaysus,

Why is everyone so keen on shaping the forum in a particular way

It is how it turns out, why can't we just leave it that way and see what happens instead of trying to construct some artificial structure of what it should be like, based on the opinions of those who complain the most

Anything other than that just doesn't seem natural

 

[the B]

Maybe I'd enjoy posting up pictures of fluffy kittens and derailed trains on all of those threads...but I don't think it's good for the forum as a whole...don't think you'd like it and I might call you dictatorial for trying to make me change...

You might all enjoy your mudslinging amongst yourselves, fine, no problem with that...but it goes beyond yourselves and you do it to people who may not appreciate it (TeeJay doesn't seem keen on it, maybe he is guilty of doing it and is a hypocrite but I think he's incited into doing it by others).

I also don't think the mudslinging should extend to swamp a whole forum (and threads in other forums - like this one) such that is has a reputation for being inaccessible and shit.

The mudslinging goes beyond where it needs to so as to be fun - ie. well beyond one thread and into more of the threads there than not.

It starts to be imposing on the potential posters (and even readers) who are kept away from UK P&P.

 

[nosos]

Why is everyone so keen on shaping the forum in a particular way

It is how it turns out, why can't we just leave it that way and see what happens instead of trying to construct some artificial structure of what it should be like, based on the opinions of those who complain the most

Anything other than that just doesn't seem natural

Spot on mate

 

[atitlan]

But that's in your point of view, mate - the posters engaged in said threads seem quite happy - if they weren't, why would they be posting on the threads?

Why not let them just post how they want? That's the crux of the issue as far as I'm concerned - live and let live - rather than trying to impose a set view of how the forum should be structured on people who already post there.

Is a forum for discussion or personal slanging matches?

From the posting FAQ:

.. but posters using these forums to re-enact infantile playground battles will be clipped around the ear by the milk monitor.

 

[nosos]

The mudslinging goes beyond where it needs to so as to be fun

In your view ..

It starts to be imposing on the potential posters (and even readers) who are kept away from UK P&P.

Bollocks!

This logic is ridiculous - apply it to some real world issues (race or something along those lines) and it completely falls apart ..

 

[the B]

jaysus,

Why is everyone so keen on shaping the forum in a particular way

It is how it turns out, why can't we just leave it that way and see what happens instead of trying to construct some artificial structure of what it should be like, based on the opinions of those who complain the most

Anything other than that just doesn't seem natural

Because the forum becomes inaccessible and shit for a lot of people outside of the regular contributors...if I or someone else gets a group of people to start whacking up irrelevent pictures all over UK P&P threads we collectively deem 'shit' - it'd be a 'natural' response but not a nice one...

I'd be imposing on them by making their ability to discuss/have fun more difficult.

I think the mudslinging and sectarian shit imposing on other people who want to try and debate a issue...

 

[nosos]

From the poting FAQ:

but posters using these forums to re-enact infantile playground battles will be clipped around the ear by the milk monitor.

And when they are clipped around the ear by the milk monitor, then they should desist - what's your point?

 

[nosos]

I think the mudslinging and sectarian shit imposing on other people who want to try and debate a issue...

Jaysus .. issues do get debated! Robustly! If your argument is coherent then you'll be fine ..

 

[Streathamite]

What do you think my "agenda" is?

I refer to the fact that this looks like you flinging yer 'andbag after that 'where did you go to school' thread' and the Anarchist's Federation one (and on the latter, btw, I felt you were asking entirely legitimate questions), eliciting a response was bizarre in it's hysteria).