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    Lazy Llama

Discussion about UK politics forum

Pickman's model said:
anyway, my solution to the swp question has already been mooted elsewhere on the boards. you may recall i once suggested trying all swp members for witchcraft and illuminating the boulevards in hyde park at night with them writhing pitieously as the flames lick ever higher up the stakes.
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I can hold my breath for ages- can't we have ducking stools :D :p
 
Pickman's model said:
:rolleyes:

do you really think yr the one to clear out something you see as a new augean stables? ahriman! you'd flounce - and flounce again - within a week.
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Probably.

When I've sworn off the booze, maybe then I could be a moderator!
 
Fucking hell, do you ppl not have beds to go to?? Teejay, why don't u go off to the drugs forum and ask them why they don't post more often in the sports section... or why don't u go to suburban and ask them why they don't post more in the philosophy section?

Mebbe it's because on the school thread which you refer to, and which you misrepresent, you opinions on "school discipline" and its relation to class were criticised for being entirely conditioned by your experiences as the product of a hugely privileged school. When you then started to defend yourself on the (irrelevant) grounds that a certain percentage of the school's pupils were non-fee paying, this was questioned and you came in for a lot of interrogation for it... but you were the one who opened the can of worms, so don't go bleating that the P&P posters descended on you like a pack of wolves. If you can't see the beam in your own eye, y'know.

And your thread on the A.Fed was a joke. Trouble was some people took you seriously enough to try answering your (non)questions, but it is immensely obvious, to me as someone who has read through both those threads and this one (should really have something better to do, shouldn't I?) that you are on a major sulk after having been battered by someone who won't let you get away with waffle. It's only the internet mate, stop stropping - threats such as the one to read through Flimsier's entire post history sort of suggest you have lost a bit of perspective.
 
TeeJay said:
Does anyone else feel that the [sport] forum is a pointless ghetto which seems to serve no purpose apart from endless bickering, mainly about [football teams].
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Make any more sense like that? Thought not.
 
Col Buendia said:
It's only the internet mate, stop stropping - threats such as the one to read through Flimsier's entire post history sort of suggest you have lost a bit of perspective.
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spouting arsery like that makes me think perspective's not the only thing teejay's lost. :eek:
 
Col_Buendia said:
Fucking hell, do you ppl not have beds to go to?? Teejay, why don't u go off to the drugs forum and ask them why they don't post more often in the sports section... or why don't u go to suburban and ask them why they don't post more in the philosophy section?
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If the sports forum was full of threads about gardening and suburban was full of threads about Uganda then you would have a fairt comparison.

Mebbe it's because on the school thread which you refer to, and which you misrepresent, you opinions on "school discipline" and its relation to class were criticised for being entirely conditioned by your experiences as the product of a hugely privileged school. When you then started to defend yourself on the (irrelevant) grounds that a certain percentage of the school's pupils were non-fee paying, this was questioned and you came in for a lot of interrogation for it... but you were the one who opened the can of worms, so don't go bleating that the P&P posters descended on you like a pack of wolves. If you can't see the beam in your own eye, y'know.
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Why should I have to "defend" myself about where I went to school? I suppose you are going to tell me that you know best because you were educated in a dustbin by a deranged monkey? Get a fucking life, fool! :rolleyes:

And your thread on the A.Fed was a joke. Trouble was some people took you seriously enough to try answering your (non)questions, but it is immensely obvious, to me as someone who has read through both those threads and this one (should really have something better to do, shouldn't I?) that you are on a major sulk after having been battered by someone who won't let you get away with waffle. It's only the internet mate, stop stropping - threats such as the one to read through Flimsier's entire post history sort of suggest you have lost a bit of perspective.
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The Anarchist Federation thread was not a joke at all, and it was most illuminating. It showed exactly why several posters who are members of this group adopt a knee-jerk position of abusing anyone who subscribes to any political position they don't like. Except tht instead of arguing their point they simply lie and insult in and effort to get someone to leave the forum of debate.

I have noticed that as the elections come nearer more and more "trotskists" and "class war anarchists" have started violently rubbishing anyone they disagree with, and they tend to do it on the most personal of grounds and with ad hominems rather than debating the policies or using real life arguments. I have realised that this is an attempt to poison the debate, reduce everything to a meaningless punch-up, distrct from the real issues and make the place so unpleasant that noone wants to go and read about stuff.

These people *hate* democracy and the democractic process - according to their professed ideologies - and obviously see the chance to wreck all and any kind of mreaningful debate that doesn't involve just their own brand of revoluntary whatever as too good to pass up.

It is interesting to note that the same tactics of bullying, swamping forums with members, attemtping to take them over, making personal attacks on people who oppose them and generally rendering any intelligent debate useless are all real-life tactics adopted by these people, so is it any surprise to see them steam into urban75 shortly before an elections and use identical tactics?

When faced with anonymous attacks from someone it is always useful to figure out what their party affilitations are and what their own background is, since pointing this out every time they make an unsubstantiated ad hominem attack is the fastest way of pulling their fangs. It works better than any other approach and is far better than descending to their level.
 
Pickman's model said:
you haven't worked out that class war and the af are two totally separate organisations?
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Sorry maybe I meant "class struggle anarchists", or "communist anarchists" or whatever. I didn't mean 'Class War' or I would have used capital letters. ;)
 
TeeJay, stop being a pillock.

Butchers attacked you, slightly rabidly in my opinion, but you do write an awful lot of bollocks- so it was about time someone called you on it.
I have never attacked you, nor has Mom, nor Nastyned, nor 888, nor gawkrodger nor....
You get the point. Your rather lame attempt at attacking our "party" (fnar, fnar) should be seen by all as the misguided thrashings of a wounded ego.

I ask you again: please stop while you are behind: it is embarrassing to watch.
 
butchersapron said:
This thread has noting to do with anti_swpism - the party has hardly been mentioned - the reliance of certain posters on that image helps it though - it's been about personal stuff. Fine let's do it, but let's not lie about what it concerns.

Anything else is dishonest.
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I can't fault you for honesty.

But there has been a hell of a lot of personalised abuse on this thread, and there's a fair bit of it on P and P the odd times I lurk there. And it does matter that others are put off by that. As has been said, this thread, which TeeJay started for serious reasons, is hardly any kind of an advert for P and P whether it's SWP/antiSWP sectarianism or personal abuse or a mixture of both that's responsible -- the culmulative effect is to put a lot of potentially valuable contributors off.

Including me, well I think I could add some value anyway -- but to be fair I do lack time as well as inclination usually.

I used when I had more time to contribute there pretty regularly, this was a while ago now. There are still a few good debates there occasionally, but I remember a while ago some battle I had with someone when I expressed an opinion in favour of voting tactically agaoinst the BNP according to local political circumstances, whether Labour or Lib Dem, either was a better than having a BNP councillor was my entirely reasonable argument. I was sneered at with contempt in return!

Genuinely can't remember who my assailant was, but I then I just got 'tarred with parroting the SWP line' -- I've never supported the SWP in my life and have handed out plenty of criticism of their sectarianism before. It's only since I came to Urban that I came to realise that anti-SWPers of whatever faction can be equally sectarian. That one went on for ages, circularly, pointlessly, very abusively....

It wasn't that alone that 'drove me away' from P and P cos I'm reasonably resilient, but it was a contributory factor especially when many other threads increasingly started to show similar lack of willingness to tolerate a more common sense/pragmatic/'moderate' point of view. I speak as a leftie with a reasonably radical past and who used to be quite active in various campaigns and particularly I used to be an active TU rep until quite recently, but the words effectiveness and pragmatism seems to be dirty ones in many P and P threads. And I've become more radical than I was five or six years ago too, but radicalism is not ptomited by sectarianism ...

Uncompromising integrity of a hardline POV is something that I can respect theoretically, but to push it without too much ability to avoid abuse of and sneering at those who try to put forward an alternative idea, is what has turned the P and P into a bearpit. Only those who enjoy participating in or being spectators of a nearly fulltime abuse-fest can really enjoy it there nowadays, occasional more worthwhile/les sectarian discussions aside.

<waits for ernie to hurl out his usual abuse of 'liberals' in solidarity with his American colleagues who think liberalism is a synonym for evil, or in the Yanks case, for communism :D >

Life's too short. Not everyone has the time for all the associated baggage and personalities ... it should be a place where occasional contributors who are not the usual faces can post a contribution without being expected to come back immediately, 24 hours a day, and where new people with a reasonably well informed but not full time professional interest in/awareness of politics can feel welcome.

It's nothing like that at the moment in there.
 
William, this thread can't be taken as 'standing alone' - it's the culmination of at least 4 others threads in which (IMO of course) teejay has been well out of order. This one was the inevitable end result of him keeping pushing the buttons when he'd been warned what would happen if he did so.

I do take the wider points about the P&P forums, but this is a personal thing - like your one with pete - it shouldn't be used to tar the whole forum. Not that you're actually doing that, but it could easily be read into what you have said.
 
Perhaps it is precisely the underlying framework of
practical, realistic, common sense
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implicit in your posts that drew fire?
The suggestion that "yes, what you say is very interesting, but what I have to say is common sense"?
 
And if the points about p&p on the whole are valid...why are the regular contributors (seemingly) so unwilling to do something about it?
 
butchersapron said:
William, this thread can't be taken as 'standing alone' - it's the culmination of at least 4 others threads in which (IMO of course) teejay has been well out of order. This one was the inevitable end result of him keeping pushing the buttons when he'd been warned what would happen if he did so.

I do take the wider points about the P&P forums, but this is a personal thing - like your one with pete - it shouldn't be used to tar the whole forum. Not that you're actually doing that, but it could easily be read into what you have said.
Click to expand...

I take your point in return, I guessed there must be some history. But that in itself is going to offput 'outsiders' when they bump into it. A wider discussion about whether P and P forums have become more generally offputting is no bad debate if people could but have it while as far as possible laying off the abuse (meaningful to a few, tediously meaningless to many) ....

Anyway, it's a rare day off for me and I need to have a bath and go shopping! :p
 
In my opinion, there are far too many threads about Respect and the SWP.
They are a waste of everyone's time, and only succeed in winding up some very-easy-to-wind-up people.

But there are those of us on there who are (relatively) courteous...

Basically, you can't force people to stop behaving in a certain way. If no-one violates the FAQ, then peeps should just learn to put up with and dig through the crap to find the odd golden nugget (unfortunate metaphor, but i'll leave it at that)
 
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