Did Rumsfield and Chums want and allow 9/11 to happen? The Poll!

[fela fan]

So you disagree with Dr Jazzz and Bigfish then.

They have been screaming that this is impossible for months now.

Ten minutes Googling and I have shut them up.

For people supposedly passionate about their theories they don't seem to want to face facts.

No i don't disagree with them.

I am not a team, i am one poster who gives his opinions, stop lumping me in with other posters.

You haven't shut them up. YOu have proved nothing. You are ignoring my points. You are so concerned with what you're saying, you have forgotten how to listen. Why don't you address my points like you said you would?

 

[Loki]

@ fela : The Circle Line at Victoria is only down a short flight of stairs. (sigh) Once more I was addressing your claim: "how come nowhere on the london undeground gets a signal." Mobile communications are constantly improving which could explain how people can receive and make calls where they couldn't before.

 

[editor]

the underground is not under ground, but loki told me of a stetch of underground that is under ground where he got a signal, so stop calling me stupid/dense and address what loki is saying. I only cleared it up with him so we could clarify if mobiles could be used underground. He says yes, you say no, could you work it out between you please.

FFS: the Circle line from Victoria to High St Kensington was built using 'cut and cover', which means that the track runs along a long and rather shallow cutting, just a few metres from the surface, with some parts exposed. Some of the stations are also exposed to daylight, so it is not surprising that phones might work.

But they will not work on underground lines running in deep tunnels.

Got it, yet?

 

[fela fan]

That'll be because he was either on or near the surface.

What are you having trouble understanding such simple facts?

You have belatedly introduced a lexicon of 'deep', 'on' or 'near' the 'surface'. BEfore you were quite happy to deride my intelligence comparing rock with air. Since i've challenged you due to loki's signal that he got underground, you have backtracked with this new vocabulary. Now we find out that in HK signals are gettable.

You spend so much time trying to denigrate the likes of me, it is no wonder posters such as bendeus wonder where the debate has gone.

Why don't you quit calling me dense and questioning my intelligence, and whether i have a girlfriend or not, and get with the debate?

How can you account for loki getting a signal underground when rock is thicker than air, and mobiles were not designed to be used underground?

 

[fela fan]

Got it, yet?

You are one of the rudest people i've ever come across.

 

[Loki]

How can you account for loki getting a signal underground when rock is thicker than air, and mobiles were not designed to be used underground?

er, I think that's already been explained. By me and the editor.

 

[fela fan]

@ fela : The Circle Line at Victoria is only down a short flight of stairs. (sigh) Once more I was addressing your claim: "how come nowhere on the london undeground gets a signal." Mobile communications are constantly improving which could explain how people can receive and make calls where they couldn't before.

Look you, either it's under ground or it's not. Make your bloody mind up. It's interesting how you and editor are now coming in with all sorts of adjectives and qualifiers to your earlier claims, once i'd challenged both of you.

You are both back-pedalling, and in doing so are questioning my intelligence.

Oh well.

 

[fela fan]

er, I think that's already been explained. By me and the editor.

No it hasn't.

Team are you?

 

[Lock&Light]

You are one of the rudest people i've ever come across.

In my opinion, the rudeness is coming from those who continually post up offensive bullshit despite the repeated requests from the editor that they desist.

('offensive bullshit' describes certain other people's posts, rather than specifically yours.)

 

[Loki]

Team are you?

?

 

[bendeus]

Quote Editor: 'So what do you think of the probability of "Operation Pretend That You're Going to Be Killed by Non Existent Terrorists"?

Or how about the suggestion that the bereaved wives and husbands who took the calls from their loved ones were too stupid to realise that they were being duped by an impersonator?

I'd say the conspiracy fans responsible for posting up such offensive, disgusting bile get all the ridicule they deserve.'


Do you find that more offensive and disgusting than the Patriot Acts 1 & 2, the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib? I would say that 'operation pretend you're going to be killed by non-existent terrorists' was definitely the premise of the current USG, as their constant hiking up fear - and therefore supine compliance - amongst their populace with their endless non-specific terror alerts go to prove.

I don't really want to be drawn into this, but I believe that the planes were flown into the towers by Islamist militants in the time-honoured tradition of steering them at them, and that (with reservations) the towers came down as a result. At that point I diverge, though, believing that the real winners of this were the PNACers, big business and the military, and all those who see opression as a legitimate form of governance.

I sincerely believe that the situation was engineered, and if not engineered, allowed to develop in order to further the establishment of a new world order, which we can now see unfolding right before our eyes. Does that make me a tinfoil hatter?

 

[fela fan]

So what do you think of the probability of "Operation Pretend That You're Going to Be Killed by Non Existent Terrorists"?

Or how about the suggestion that the bereaved wives and husbands who took the calls from their loved ones were too stupid to realise that they were being duped by an impersonator?

I'd say the conspiracy fans responsible for posting up such offensive, disgusting bile get all the ridicule they deserve.

qed, as bendeus was pointing out.

 

[fela fan]

Do you find that more offensive and disgusting than the Patriot Acts 1 & 2, the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib? I would say that 'operation pretend you're going to be killed by non-existent terrorists' was definitely the premise of the current USG, as their constant hiking up fear - and therefore supine compliance - amongst their populace with their endless non-specific terror alerts go to prove.

I don't really want to be drawn into this, but I believe that the planes were flown into the towers by Islamist militants in the time-honoured tradition of steering them at them, and that (with reservations) the towers came down as a result. At that point I diverge, though, believing that the real winners of this were the PNACers, big business and the military, and all those who see opression as a legitimate form of governance.

I sincerely believe that the situation was engineered, and if not engineered, allowed to develop in order to further the establishment of a new world order, which we can now see unfolding right before our eyes. Does that make me a tinfoil hatter?

Sorry to say this mate, but you'll do exceedingly well not to be drawn in, coz that's a tactic.

YOu have made the fatal mistake of questioning the official theory, which it seems to me editor is at total pains to avoid.

I have yet to fathom why.

 

[editor]

How can you account for loki getting a signal underground when rock is thicker than air, and mobiles were not designed to be used underground?

Good grief. Your stupidity astounds me.

I've have explained repeatedly that mobile phone signals can not penetrate metres of rock. The only way you can get a mobile signal underground (i.e. under rock) is if there are underground transmitters along the route.

Where Loki got a signal - as I have already fucking explained - the line is not buried under rock. The line was built by 'cut and cover' which means it effectively runs in a shallow cutting peppered with daylight openings.
So there's no rock above it. It's not in a tunnel.

Look it up and save yourself any more embarrassment.

One of the most magnificent railway systems is the London Underground, commonly called the Tube. (Both terms are misnomers, because most of the LU network is actually above ground; and even those that are underground are not all in tubular tunnels, for the oldest ones - the Sub-Surface Lines or "cut-and-cover lines" - are really just covered-over cuttings.)

 

[fela fan]

Good grief. Your stupidity astounds me.

I've have explained repeatedly that mobile phone signals can not penetrate metres of rock. The only way you can get a mobile signal underground (i.e. under rock) is if there are underground transmitters along the route.

Where Loki got a signal - as I have already fucking explained - the line is not buried under rock. The line was built by 'cut and cover' which means it effectively runs in a shallow cutting peppered with daylight openings.
So there's no rock above it. It's not in a tunnel.

Look it up and save yourself any more embarrassment.

The embarrassment is all yours dear editor.

Firstly it was rock, then 'deep' rock, now its 'metres' of rock.

Can you see how your language develops according to the level of challenge you get to your posts?

 

[editor]

Do you find that more offensive and disgusting than the Patriot Acts 1 & 2, the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib?

No. Why on earth should I?


These are things that have actually happened and are not a stream of manufactured, poisonous, fact free fantasies that insist that bereaved people were either too stupid to recognise a fake husband/wife on the phone or that their loved one's last words to them were in fact a bag of lies, cooked up as part of this ridiculous "Operation Pretend That You're Going to Be Killed by Non Existent Terrorists".

(You have read that particular part of the thread, haven't you?)

 

[Loki]

You know, I wish I hadn't mentioned I received mobile phone calls on the underground now.

Anyway what's this got to do with the thread topic? Fuck all.

 

[editor]

The embarrassment is all yours dear editor.

Firstly it was rock, then 'deep' rock, now its 'metres' of rock.

Can you see how your language develops according to the level of challenge you get to your posts?

There is no 'rock' above the section of line Loki refers to, you idiot.

As I've told you endless times, that line was built by cut and cover and was not burrowed through rock.

Has that simple fact penetrated your skull yet?

 

[fela fan]

No. Why on earth should I?


These are things that have actually happened and are not a stream of manufactured, poisonous, fact free fantasies that insist that bereaved people were either too stupid to recognise a fake husband/wife on the phone or that their loved one's last words to them were in fact a bag of lies, cooked up as part of this ridiculous "Operation Pretend That You're Going to Be Killed by Non Existent Terrorists".

Before we arrive at the conclusion that those phone calls were real or fake, we need to know if such calls can be made 20,000 foot up in the air while travelling at at least 30 mph.

Coz they can't be made 2000 foot up on the ground, nor can they be made... ahem, 'deep' below the 'surface'.

I asked if any urbanites have tried it, i ask again.

No-one has proved satisfactorily that it can be done.

 

[fela fan]

You know, I wish I hadn't mentioned I received mobile phone calls on the underground now.

Anyway what's this got to do with the thread topic? Fuck all.

Yeah, well your joy at being pedantic towards me has backfired big time eh mate?! No wonder you regret it, you really fucked up there. I actually showed in black and white for all to see how you and editor diverged in your opinions.

One up to the fela fan eh

 

[zit]

Quote Editor: 'So what do you think of the probability of "Operation Pretend That You're Going to Be Killed by Non Existent Terrorists"?

Or how about the suggestion that the bereaved wives and husbands who took the calls from their loved ones were too stupid to realise that they were being duped by an impersonator?

I'd say the conspiracy fans responsible for posting up such offensive, disgusting bile get all the ridicule they deserve.'


Do you find that more offensive and disgusting than the Patriot Acts 1 & 2, the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib? I would say that 'operation pretend you're going to be killed by non-existent terrorists' was definitely the premise of the current USG, as their constant hiking up fear - and therefore supine compliance - amongst their populace with their endless non-specific terror alerts go to prove.

I don't really want to be drawn into this, but I believe that the planes were flown into the towers by Islamist militants in the time-honoured tradition of steering them at them, and that (with reservations) the towers came down as a result. At that point I diverge, though, believing that the real winners of this were the PNACers, big business and the military, and all those who see opression as a legitimate form of governance.

I sincerely believe that the situation was engineered, and if not engineered, allowed to develop in order to further the establishment of a new world order, which we can now see unfolding right before our eyes. Does that make me a tinfoil hatter?

this is exactly my thinking too.

although i dont believe in any of the ridiculous conspiracy theories speculated here by DrJ et al, i dont understand why people find them so objectionable.

theres a Conspiracy Forum over at www.uk420.com which is a cannabis grow site with alsorts of interesting forums and they dont seem to mind debate about conspiracies (unlike here unfortunately )

and the presence of a conspiracy forum doesnt seem to have dragged uk420 down one bit.

 

[editor]

One up to the fela fan eh

You really are a deluded clown, aren't you?

But seeing as your simple mind is clearly incapable of working out the clear difference between a deep underground line and a 'cut and cover' line, I'll leave you to wallow in your considerable ignorance.

 

[bendeus]

No. Why on earth should I?


These are things that have actually happened and are not a stream of manufactured, poisonous, fact free fantasies that insist that bereaved people were either too stupid to recognise a fake husband/wife on the phone or that their loved one's last words to them were in fact a bag of lies, cooked up as part of this ridiculous "Operation Pretend That You're Going to Be Killed by Non Existent Terrorists".

But do you think that any hint of USG complicity at any level is 'manufactured' or 'poisonous'? Would you not say that the number of 9/11 victims' families who are still publically trying to get an independent enquiry to investigate the attacks may hint at a recognition among those who you are purporting to defend that there is more to this than meets the eye? In many ways I agree with you - stuff about holograms and missiles takes away from the real issue at hand, which was the Pearl Harbour moment that the PNAC had been waiting for, and in that sense the outer reaches of conspiracy could be viewed as reactionary, or even as black ops by other conspiracy theorists .

I would really like to hear whether you think I am a ct nutjob for questioning the official line, and for looking a bit harder at the possible motive than your mainstream meeja would.

 

[fela fan]

There is no 'rock' above the section of line Loki refers to, you idiot.

As I've told you endless times, that line was built by cut and cover and was not burrowed through rock.

Has that simple fact penetrated your skull yet?

I was quoting you editor, but that seems to have escaped your notice.

The last time i did that particular journey, i distinctly recall it being not under ground. But loki inisisted to me that it was under ground. I bowed down to him due to not entirely trusting my memory.

You have just confirmed my memory was correct.

You still seem unable to debate civilly. Is it an afliction?

 

[snadge]

The embarrassment is all yours dear editor.

Firstly it was rock, then 'deep' rock, now its 'metres' of rock.

Can you see how your language develops according to the level of challenge you get to your posts?

but he is still correct, he is adding adjectives to try and help you understand

 

[editor]

But do you think that any hint of USG complicity at any level is 'manufactured' or 'poisonous'?

You're missing the point spectacularly and confusing sepearate issues.

I am saying that DrJ's evidence-free assertion that those who took calls from the 9/11 planes were either lying, fooled or too stupid to notice that they were talking to a USG operative and not their husband/wife a 'poisonous' accusation - just like his one claiming that Huntley was completely innocent.

What that's got to do with what you're on about is anyone's guess.

 

[editor]

but he is still correct, he is adding adjectives to try and help you understand

Indeed I am. But it seems fela is doomed to never understand these simple facts.

 

[bendeus]

You're missing the point spectacularly and confusing sepearate issues.

I am saying that DrJ's evidence-free assertion that those who took calls from the 9/11 planes were either lying, fooled or too stupid to notice that they were talking to a USG operative and not their husband/wife a 'poisonous' accusation - just like his one claiming that Huntley was completely innocent.

What that's got to do with what you're on about is anyone's guess.

oh, and there's me thinking that this thread was on about: Did Rumsfield and Chums want and allow 9/11 to happen?

Silly me

 

[Loki]

Yeah, well your joy at being pedantic towards me has backfired big time eh mate?! No wonder you regret it, you really fucked up there. I actually showed in black and white for all to see how you and editor diverged in your opinions.

One up to the fela fan eh

Pedantry? How have I fucked up exactly? Sorry but you seem to be the deluded individual. I was responding to your statement "And how come nowhere on the london undeground gets a signal." and I gave my answer. And you seemed determined to argue the toss.

 

[fela fan]

pk

I see you have started a new thread.

You went on about bigfish and drjazzz running away from you.

You told me you'd debate with me. I accepted your criteria, and yet you've apparantly run away from the debate.

Hypocrisy, or are you coming back to deal with my points?