Denormalisation of alcohol

[Chick Webb]

The most exciting place I ever bought booze was a kiosk in the middle of an estate of tower blocks in Serbia.

Oh, I don't know. I gather from market research folk that spirits drinkers - even ones with strong stated brand preferences - usually can't tell the difference in blind tastings. It really is a case of drinking the packaging.

The pissheads will argue this point, because they believe that they are connoiseurs, rather than fetishists.

Hakenberg may taste alright as far as cheap beers go, but you'll know all about it when you wake up in the morning with a face full of spots and a horrid hangover. Give me (plain package) Dutch Gold any day.

 

[Blagsta]

Sold in plain packaging, so the choice of product is not reinforced by branding and advertising. Purchasing the product no longer allows the consumer to buy into a culture or lifestyle.

I'd prefer decent funding for addiction services, mental health services, social services etc.

 

[NoXion]

Don't be silly. The problems and solutions regarding alcohol are individual, not social. Has neo-liberalism taught you nothing?

 

[quimcunx]

I am amusing myself imagining what an ad extolling the virtues of solitary drinking would look like.

 

[Roadkill]

Right, 5pm and I'm done with work. I'm off for a pint or two of decent ale and a laugh at the kind of po-faced tossers who disapprove.

 

[Chick Webb]

I do actually like drinking alone. I like a pint and a read of my book in the pub, and I also like different movies and telly from the people I live with, so I enjoy a beer and bit of telly alone too. Not that either of these things are likely to happen now with a small baby.

 

[Teaboy]

I do actually like drinking alone. I like a pint and a read of my book in the pub, and I also like different movies and telly from the people I live with, so I enjoy a beer and bit of telly alone too. Not that either of these things are likely to happen now with a small baby.

Valium & Gin?

 

[killer b]

Right, 5pm and I'm done with work. I'm off for a pint or two of decent ale and a laugh at the kind of po-faced tossers who disapprove.

Might it be possible to have this discussion without dismissing anyone as a po-faced tosser? I dont agree with almost anything Maurice is arguing here (ftr I dont think he does either), but writing off people who express dissatisfaction with the way things are as killjoys (and painting drinkers as jolly free spirits) adds nothing, and reinforces a number of (Imo) quite damaging ideas.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Sold in plain packaging, so the choice of product is not reinforced by branding and advertising.

Choice of product is reinforced by what you think tastes nice. Anyone who says otherwise is either a non-drinker or a child. Being that the first of those categories aren't going to be wooed by the pretty colours anyway, and the second category are not allowed to buy booze, the whole packaging thing is a load of bollocks.

Purchasing the product no longer allows the consumer to buy into a culture or lifestyle.

People aren't fucking stupid. Well, some of us here aren't anyway.

 

[Roadkill]

Might it be possible to have this discussion without dismissing anyone as a po-faced tosser?

In part I was trying to provoke a reaction. I'm not sure the OP seriously believes some of what he's arguing either (although OTOH I'm no longer as sure he's trolling as I was earlier), but I reserve the right to call those who go around expressing that kind of sour disapproval of others' drinking habits and calling for price hikes, ad bans and the rest of it po-faced tossers. Insofar as there is a problem, as Blagsta says, the solution is better support for addiction services and the like, not making life more difficult for the majority who enjoy a drink without needing them.

 

[David Clapson]

There's a strong argument for introducing children to alcohol at an early age. The French and Italians don't have our binge-drinking culture. They claim it's because they give their children watered-down wine with meals. Consequently teenagers don't see getting drunk as a cool, rebellious rite of passage.

 

[Nancy_Winks]

So you think Maurice Picarda is insincere about suggesting minimum pricing, a ban on advertising etc?

 

[Maurice Picarda]

There's a strong argument for introducing children to alcohol at an early age. The French and Italians don't have our binge-drinking culture. They claim it's because they give their children watered-down wine with meals. Consequently teenagers don't see getting drunk as a cool, rebellious rite of passage.

What about giving them fags, as well? A Silk Cut, after dinner, with mum and dad, would take all the glamour out of it, surely?

Alcohol is addictive. Giving it to children is foolish.

 

[David Clapson]

So you have no answer to the French and Italian experience except a knee-jerk reaction.

 

[killer b]

I was given watered down wine with meals and was a raging pisshead for most of my adult life.

I remember reading some stats that contradicted the claim that there isn't a significant problem with drinking in France & italy too. I'll see if I can find 'em later.

 

[killer b]

So you think Maurice Picarda is insincere about suggesting minimum pricing, a ban on advertising etc?

I think he often argues from a more extreme position than the one he actually occupies, yeah.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

What about giving them fags, as well? A Silk Cut, after dinner, with mum and dad, would take all the glamour out of it, surely?

Alcohol is addictive. Giving it to children is foolish.

We already ply kids with sugar - perhaps the deadliest 'drug' of all.

 

[Idris2002]

There's a strong argument for introducing children to alcohol at an early age. The French and Italians don't have our binge-drinking culture. They claim it's because they give their children watered-down wine with meals. Consequently teenagers don't see getting drunk as a cool, rebellious rite of passage.

Yeah well, I once asked a French colleague of mine about that, and she said that in her house, what would happen was that once a week her dad would take a teaspoon of wine and stir it into a glass of water, and give her that. Then he'd watch her to see what she was drinking like a grown up, and it was only after five years of this, when she was 18 anyway, that she was given a grownup size glass.

Sorry to spoil the magic.

The other thing there is that French teenagers are, apparently, kept on a very short leash in general.

 

[Nancy_Winks]

I think he often argues from a more extreme position than the one he actually occupies, yeah.

Fair enough. Devils advocate then. The position he's pretending to argue from is widely held mind you, not extreme.

Maurice maybe you'd tell us what you really think?

 

[Maurice Picarda]

Maurice maybe you'd tell us what you really think?

I thought that I was, but killer b is much better positioned to comment. He has the benefit of neutrality and detachment.

 

[killer b]

 

[DotCommunist]

Fair enough. Devils advocaat then. The position he's pretending to argue from is widely held mind you, not extreme.

Maurice maybe you'd tell us what you really think?

 

[Idris2002]

A load of Bols, if you ask me.

 

[DotCommunist]

A load of Bols, if you ask me.

curacao-ioser and curacao-ioser

 

[Vintage Paw]

Alcohol consumption amongst kids isn't what it used to be, it seems to have become a bit passé

This is true. Him indoors lectures at uni, and his students seem relatively apathetic about the traditional several nights a week union benders.

 

[Idris2002]

curacao-ioser and curacao-ioser

It's not all Black and White, you know

(and we're off!)

 

[David Clapson]

Strangely enough the Mail does not approve of Continental drinking habits:

While the UK has some of the highest levels of binge drinking in Europe, the overall amount of alcohol consumed by the average Briton is lower than that drunk by people in many continental countries. As a result, the number of alcohol-related deaths in Britain is lower than in countries such as France, Portugal and Spain.

Dr James Nicholls, research manager for the charity Alcohol Research UK, said the idea that continental-style daily drinking is healthier than binge drinking is a myth. ‘In public health terms, making alcohol part of our everyday life in that way is not going to help at all,’ he said. ‘If anything, it will make matters worse and cost the NHS even more. There is this assumption that there are a number of Mediterranean countries we should look at as a model for drinking, such as France, Portugal and Spain. But their overall levels of alcohol consumption are higher than Britain. There is this view that the regular continental approach does not cause harm. In fact it does, but it is just less visible. It is not the public order harm that is associated with binge drinking, but the damage to health is just as pronounced, if not more so. We need to get away from the idea that there is either binge drinking or continental-style daily drinking. There is harm associated with both.’

A study published last year found that overall individual alcohol consumption was higher in Austria, Germany, France, Portugal and Spain than in the UK. The number of alcohol-attributable deaths was also higher in all these nations, with more than 15 per cent of male deaths linked to drinking in France and Portugal, compared with around 8 per cent in Britain. The researchers, from the University of Toronto in Canada, classified alcohol-related deaths as including cases of liver disease, chronic pancreatitis, alcohol poisoning and fatal injuries.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...-like-French-Cafe-culture-worse-bingeing.html

 

[Coolfonz]

There's a strong argument for introducing children to alcohol at an early age. The French and Italians don't have our binge-drinking culture. They claim it's because they give their children watered-down wine with meals. Consequently teenagers don't see getting drunk as a cool, rebellious rite of passage.

plenty of lushes in france, spain, italy, they just don't like a fight as a side order.

 

[killer b]

This is true. Him indoors lectures at uni, and his students seem relatively apathetic about the traditional several nights a week union benders.

I wonder if its a coincidence that this drop in interest in drink among the youth dovetails so exactly with the recent (last 5 years or so) more rigid enforcement of licensing sales to the under the 18s?

 

[Vintage Paw]

I wonder if its a coincidence that this drop in interest in drink among the youth dovetails so exactly with the recent (last 5 years or so) more rigid enforcement of licensing sales to the under the 18s?

My gut says it's likely a coincidence. More to do with trends and popular culture and the things kids find interesting and 'cool' these days.

I know I blame/credit the internet for almost everything, but with a report out today saying in Britain the time we spend online has continued to rise sharply year on year, with another rise this year (something like 8-10 hours per day viewing media online), perhaps we're just doing different things because technology and culture allows for it?