Denormalisation of alcohol

[lazythursday]

I think all that would do would make more people drink at home, cause even more pub closures and make local shops suffer.
The only way to stop problem/excessive drinking is to address the cause(s), educate and provide help for those suffering from addiction. Prohibition does not work, and all atempts to curtail peoples drinking by limiting access or extreme pricing hits the poor most, both in their pockets and their bonds with the local community.

I don't agree - I think there's a line that can be trod between total libertarian free-for-all and prohibition. People do drink different amounts between different countries and some of that is down to price, access, legal framework as well as cultural norms. And those things help to set the cultural norms too.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

What places would that apply to?

Where Johnny V worked. And anywhere that hands out bottles of champagne to good performers as a regular reward.

 

[Roadkill]

How about a ban on the consumption or distribution of alcohol in workplaces other than licensed premises? Wouldn't reduce sales by all that much, but sends a clear message.

What, so when my institution holds a public lecture we wouldn't be able to offer people a glass of wine at the reception afterwards? Don't be daft.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

My alcoholic brother-in-law got arrrested several times and banned from pubs. He just started drinking alone more, at home, over the fields, in fucking phone boxes, until finally it got the better of him

Yeah, definitely - when people get too out of control with their drinking to go to pubs, they just sit in drinking alone.

 

[lazythursday]

How would you make a fine stick without the definite limit from a breathalyser though? Could just endlessly be appealed. Unless you have secret shopper style drinkers testing places, which would be an interesting job. And even if landlords had the fear they just pass the fear down to staff who'll be in a shitty position trying to deal with drunks, as well as getting fined themselves.

Plenty of pubs will cut people off, best you can do I reckon is support the good ones because there'll never be a time when someone with a will to can't get a drink *somewhere*.

But this is the law already, clearly they can make the fines stick. I'm just advocating enforcing the law a bit more. Helping to make it unacceptable to be drunk (and I mean drunk, not tipsy) in public.

 

[Roadkill]

I don't agree - I think there's a line that can be trod between total libertarian free-for-all and prohibition.

Of course there is. We're treading that line now, and frankly with a few limited exceptions I don't see a problem with the status quo.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

What, so when my institution holds a public lecture we wouldn't be able to offer people a glass of wine at the reception afterwards? Don't be daft.

Yes, exactly that. You've described just the sort of case that makes this proposal a part of the denormalisation strategy.

 

[YouSir]

Where Johnny V worked. And anywhere that hands out bottles of champagne to good performers as a regular reward.

What's the point of that though? Would have no effect on sales or consumption really, would just take a little joy out of life. Would kill the world of art too, fuck knows I've never been to a gallery without the promise of free drink.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

What's the point of that though? Would have no effect on sales or consumption really, would just take a little joy out of life. Would kill the world of art too, fuck knows I've never been to a gallery without the promise of free drink.

Perhaps you not going to a gallery wouldn't sound the death knell for art?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[YouSir]

But this is the law already, clearly they can make the fines stick. I'm just advocating enforcing the law a bit more. Helping to make it unacceptable to be drunk (and I mean drunk, not tipsy) in public.

You said they never applied fines though? So presumably police don't think they could make it stick. And I think I just disagree really, I don't think the causes are ever dealt with by attempts at prohibition.

 

[YouSir]

Perhaps you not going to a gallery wouldn't sound the death knell for art?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

I'm a trend setter I'll have you know.

 

[Roadkill]

Yes, exactly that. You've described just the sort of case that makes this proposal a part of the denormalisation strategy.

I still don't think you're serious. Thank fuck.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

What's the point of that though? Would have no effect on sales or consumption really, would just take a little joy out of life. Would kill the world of art too, fuck knows I've never been to a gallery without the promise of free drink.

If there's an arms race of booze distribution to encourage journalists and the public at large to go to cultural and educational events, cutting off the supply would merely level the playing field.

 

[mr steev]

I don't agree - I think there's a line that can be trod between total libertarian free-for-all and prohibition. People do drink different amounts between different countries and some of that is down to price, access, legal framework as well as cultural norms. And those things help to set the cultural norms too.

I would say most is down to climate and culture. I also think years of our restricted licensing laws have bread a mentallity of get it down you quick, get a couple in before the bell etc.

A thing to remember though, is whilst many people do struggle with alcohol, many many people do not, and I think the state has no right to curtail what the majority of people enjoy with relatively little adverse effects.

 

[YouSir]

If there's an arms race of booze distribution to encourage journalists and the public at large to go to cultural and educational events, cutting off the supply would merely level the playing field.

I wasn't being entirely serious...

 

[lazythursday]

People have it in their heads that every single sort of social gathering - even in an art gallery or a lecture - must be accompanied by alcohol or it is shit. This is the problem and what is wrong with our culture and why those people who try to cut down and be moderate drinkers really struggle.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Yes, exactly that. You've described just the sort of case that makes this proposal a part of the denormalisation strategy.

It would be a tiny thing that inconveniences people and pisses them off more than a rule that changes anything. In Scotland, the SNP introduced a law to stop places selling booze before 10am. The only type of person that pisses off is those that like to shop early to beat the crowds. Ever met an alcoholic that doesn't ensure they have a stash of booze to do them at least a day?

 

[Roadkill]

I would say most is down to climate and culture. I also think years of our restricted licensing laws have bread a mentallity of get it down you quick, get a couple in before the bell etc.

I agree about the licensing hours encouraging people to get it down quick before last orders, but tbf they only date from 1915 (IIRC) and the problem existed well before then. Centuries before then, in fact!

A thing to remember though, is whilst many people do struggle with alcohol, many many people do not, and I think the state has no right to curtail what the majority of people enjoy with relatively little adverse effects.

Hear bloody hear!

 

[8ball]

Some people spend too much time on the internet. There should be a compulsory computer program that limits access and use of computers after 8pm should be looked upon by everyone as something akin to pederasty.

 

[lazythursday]

Some people spend too much time on the internet. There should be a compulsory computer program that limits access and use of computers after 8pm should be looked upon by everyone as something akin to pederasty.

Spending too much time on the internet doesn't cause liver disease, incontinence, domestic violence, etc etc etc. And it's certainly not physically addictive causing withdrawals.

 

[8ball]

Spending too much time on the internet doesn't cause liver disease, incontinence, domestic violence, etc etc etc. And it's certainly not physically addictive causing withdrawals.

Ah, minimizing the problem. It's clear you have a serious issue with this. PM me for details of support groups.

 

[Sweet FA]

Choice of product is reinforced by what you think tastes nice...the whole packaging thing is a load of bollocks.

Eh? Packaging/marketing/advertising doesn't affect people's choices? People drink/smoke a particular brand purely on taste?

Rubbish.

People aren't fucking stupid. Well, some of us here aren't anyway.

Maybe not stupid but definitely manipulated by fag/booze companies.

 

[lazythursday]

Ah, minimizing the problem. It's clear you have a serious issue with this. PM me for details of support groups.

I really don't need a support group. I do have friends who are alcoholics and sometimes I've struggled with my own drinking and that experience has led me to view alcohol a bit differently from most people on this thread. I think it's a pity that most people will fight for their right to get wankered whenever they want as cheaply as possible whatever the broader consequences. And that doesn't mean I want to ban anything, I just do think a shift in the culture away from alcohol being so central to social occasions would be a good thing. I'm not sure how we get there but I don't think it can all be just some blether about education and addiction services - it has to be about changing cultural norms more broadly.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

I still don't think you're serious. Thank fuck.

I've checked with Roland Barthes and he says that's your prerogative.

 

[8ball]

I really don't need a support group. I do have friends who are alcoholics and sometimes I've struggled with my own drinking and that experience has led me to view alcohol a bit differently from most people on this thread. I think it's a pity that most people will fight for their right to get wankered whenever they want as cheaply as possible whatever the broader consequences. And that doesn't mean I want to ban anything, I just do think a shift in the culture away from alcohol being so central to social occasions would be a good thing. I'm not sure how we get there but I don't think it can all be just some blether about education and addiction services - it has to be about changing cultural norms more broadly.

I mean for your internet problem. It makes you go blind and has been linked with cancer, depression and radicalization,

In any case, with younger folk drinking alcohol to excess seems to have been becoming a bit less trendy for a while.
I guess they'll find their own new drug once they work out how fucked they are.

 

[Roadkill]

Eh? Packaging/marketing/advertising doesn't affect people's choices? People drink/smoke a particular brand purely on taste?

Rubbish.

In a lot of cases, yes. I smoke Drum because I like the taste better than other rolling tobaccos out there. As a real-ale drinker I'm not brand-loyal and enjoy the variety on offer, but there are certain beers I'll come back to because I enjoy them. I know I'm not alone in that. Making people out to be brainwashed dupes of ad agencies and big alcohol producers is patronising twaddle.

 

[YouSir]

I really don't need a support group. I do have friends who are alcoholics and sometimes I've struggled with my own drinking and that experience has led me to view alcohol a bit differently from most people on this thread. I think it's a pity that most people will fight for their right to get wankered whenever they want as cheaply as possible whatever the broader consequences. And that doesn't mean I want to ban anything, I just do think a shift in the culture away from alcohol being so central to social occasions would be a good thing. I'm not sure how we get there but I don't think it can all be just some blether about education and addiction services - it has to be about changing cultural norms more broadly.

Cultural norms around drinking have been developed over millennia, you can't legislate them into something new. Same the world over, every culture has it's drink or drug that forms a social cornerstone. S'humanity really. Mitigate the worst effects and that's about all you can do.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

As a real-ale drinker I'm not brand-loyal and enjoy the variety on offer, but there are certain beers I'll come back to because I enjoy them. I know I'm not alone in that. Making people out to be brainwashed dupes of ad agencies and big alcohol producers is patronising twaddle.

Okay, you're a brainwashed dupe of small and medium-sized alcohol producers. Happy?

 

[Roadkill]

Okay, you're a brainwashed dupe of small and medium-sized alcohol producers. Happy?

I've had you marked down as either a wind-up merchant or a twat - or both - ever since this. This thread really isn't doing anything to make me revise that opinion.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Okay, you're a brainwashed dupe of small and medium-sized alcohol producers. Happy?

Do you drink, Maurice?