seventh bullet
sovietwave
Let's hope it doesn't mean that chilango wants a vanguard of intellectuals mediating the proletariat's self-government.
Or proletarian intellectuals seeking to place saddles on the backs of others.
Democracy: crap/not crap
- Thread starter nardy
- Start date
Or proletarian intellectuals seeking to place saddles on the backs of others.
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
I think that you will find only the most advanced section of the advanced section of the proletariat, that part which has irrevocably broken with economism and tailism, embraced dialectical materialism and recognised the necessity of its own historical mission, will be fit and able to lead the dictatorship of its own class and hence ripen the conditions for the negation of the relationships which constitute the inhumanity of capitalism.
Comradely greetings - Louis MacNeice
Comradely greetings - Louis MacNeice
SaskiaJayne
Rural Guerrilla
Perhaps it means the proles voting against the advice of the ruling neolib elite & then the proles pulling up deckchairs & munching popcorn while being entertained by the spectacle of the ruling neolib elite dissappearing up their own arses trying to 'respect the will of the people' which becomes more & more impossible as 'negotiations' progress.
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To me, democracy is a mechanism which allows the will of the majority to prevail. “Pure” democracy may be a referendum on everything, but that’s clearly impractical. At election time, to eliminate “25% of the vote” governments, perhaps secondary voting rounds – processes of elimination – to determine an overall winner. Again, probably too cumbersome to be practical, which is maybe why we have our current system.
What does this mean?
I tend to agree with this.
But you have engaged, by posting that.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Right. So you think it's democratic that unelected, unaccountable people have great power over us in our everyday lives, that there are no free and fair elections, and that there is no means by which to recall a councillor or MP between elections. Why should the will of the majority prevail? Is it really their will or is it a view created by government and/or mass media?
billy_bob
Air of bewilderment model's own
Perhaps it means the proles voting against the advice of the ruling neolib elite & then the proles pulling up deckchairs & munching popcorn while being entertained by the spectacle of the ruling neolib elite dissappearing up their own arses trying to 'respect the will of the people' which becomes more & more impossible as 'negotiations' progress.
What can you be thinking of?
Which people are they?
Why is an election not "free"? Re. "fair", do you propose proportional representation?
Presumably these people can be forced out if gross misconduct is evident?
Because enacting the will of the minority would be unfair on the majority.
Are you saying that most people are too stupid to see through manipulation?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
bosses, cops, teachers, the dole etc
It's not free or fair because no one votes without influences from the media, from their boss, while someone's choices are of course limited and determined by political parties.
can they?
Yeh but what if the minority are right and the majority wrong?
You clearly are.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
A society based on free association and without hierarchy
I can see that working a treat.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Yeh. I had no high expectation you would be able to.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
And enacting the will of the majority is unfair on the minority. Nowhere is this clearer than with the 52% - 48% EU referendum result, a vote decided by a margin any scientist would instantly dismiss as not even significant enough to use as evidence that the entire population hadn't voted on the flip of a coin.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
There are many matters in which a majority of the public believes to be true something which is demonstrably false. A majority of the British public believes that 'Great Britain' is the name of a country, rather than the name of an island. Should we be really be making decisions based on the opinions of people who don't even know where they live?
e2a: Even the Ordnance Survey, whose entire job is making maps, get this wrong:
The difference between UK, Britain and the British Isles
e2a: Even the Ordnance Survey, whose entire job is making maps, get this wrong:
The difference between UK, Britain and the British Isles
bi0boy
Power User
Perhaps we ought to let them know where they live before making decisions.
likesfish
You can't park here sir
Perhaps it means the proles voting against the advice of the ruling neolib elite & then the proles pulling up deckchairs & munching popcorn while being entertained by the spectacle of the ruling neolib elite dissappearing up their own arses trying to 'respect the will of the people' which becomes more & more impossible as 'negotiations' progress.
Problem is the "proles" are going to discover that this had a real bad effect and various right wingers are intending to use this an excuse to make life shitter for almost everyone.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Without an educated population democracy is impossible. Our present school system seems designed to actively prevent such a menace from arising.
Yossarian
Get thee behind me, Santa
The leaders put in place by the last nine elections in the UK were Thatcher, Thatcher, Thatcher, Major, Blair, Blair, Blair, Cameron, and Cameron, proving beyond a doubt that democracy as it currently works is a pile of shit - not that there seem to be any better replacements waiting in the wings.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
We have a system where the only job you can get without providing references is Prime Minister.
So, in the case of, say, 60/40 split opinion, do you propose that the country be divided into a 60/40 geographical proportion, and people herded according to their view? Rinse and repeat for opinion on each subject?
bi0boy
Power User
Surely that proves that you think it's a pile of shit, not that it is a pile of shit.
Many left wingers have been behaving disgustingly as well, if you look at the comments on you tube etc
its quite disgusting
Many of them are no angels and have behaved appalingly
im sick and tired of hearing about tbh
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Nah but the 40% who lost get first dibs on the next decision.
Yeah. People are far too stupid to be allowed a vote. It should be left to the intellectually elevated.Should we be really be making decisions based on the opinions of people who don't even know where they live?
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Yeah. People are far too stupid to be allowed a vote. It should be left to the intellectually elevated.
People do just fine when there aren't vast and powerful institutions working tirelessly to misguide and misinform them according to the interests of the powerful minority.
Tbf many Uni bods present and Ex have been brainwashed by these teachings as well
Do they honestly think a few placards have any point, all seems a bit futile and pathetic imho
bi0boy
Power User
This may be true but it's an untested theory when it comes to a country of 70 million people.
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