Curfew For Men

[Shippou-Sensei]

Couldn't agree more. But I don't need to be curfewed to consider some mens awful treatment of women.

Given your posts on this thread I'd say it would be some excellent time for reflection.

At a start it might not be the best place to be making things about how you don't need to be curfewed.
It's not about you its about the wider culture and everyone who says these things aren't needed because they are fine and they don't want to be inconvenienced are missing that point.

I don't feel particularly comfortable about putting words in other people's mouths about what this is or isn't but I feel this is part of the problem. the i'm alright jack syndrome.

 

[Pickman's model]

Apply this to the current situation. Women who are obliged to be out at all hours (carers bus drivers office cleaners nurses waiters bar staff late night shops women who study late theatre staff etc ) who are curtailed by their fears and the behaviour of men.

No point other than a reminder that plenty of women who are out late aren’t there for fun but for work.

a simple point - there is no curfew for women. this is a thread about a curfew for men. I don't think it could work, I suspect the first legal challenge would strike it down, and by stopping men working in eg a&e at nights you'd likely make things less safe in a range of ways.

To change things for the better will take time - as I've suggested elsewhere changes need to be made in culture and education as well as in socialisation and imo something like a curfew won't achieve its desired objectives

 

[Pickman's model]

Why should all women have their personal freedom restricted because of the heinous actions of the extreme minority?

and it’s not daft if it gets people talking and raises awareness

The point is not to achieve awareness but lasting change, surely

 

[Orang Utan]

The point is not to achieve awareness but lasting change, surely

Yes, the former leading to the latter

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes, the former leading to the latter

I think you're living in cloud-cuckoo land if you believe that's going to happen from the proposal in the op

 

[Doodler]

Reintroduce beat policing and give top priority to patrolling areas where sexual assaults have tended to occur.

 

[Orang Utan]

I think you're living in cloud-cuckoo land if you believe that's going to happen from the proposal in the op

It’s a start and needs to be part of other radical measures to change the culture that normalises men’s predatory behaviour and makes other men make excuses for their dangerous peers

 

[Orang Utan]

Reintroduce beat policing and give top priority to patrolling areas where sexual assaults have tended to occur.

How is that going to stop the police from assaulting citizens?

 

[neonwilderness]

Innocent people have to suffer because other innocent people have suffered?

But it’s only a problem now that innocent men would be affected, which is the point. I don’t want my freedom restricted because of a minority either, but it’s been fine for innocent women to be told to stay at home for their own safety for years. Rather than addressing the root cause it just shifts the blame elsewhere.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Reintroduce beat policing and give top priority to patrolling areas where sexual assaults have tended to occur.

Sexual assaults happen everywhere.
Women can't trust the police.

 

[Doodler]

How is that going to stop the police from assaulting citizens?

Are you really suggesting the presence of patrolling police officers, with many women among their number, is likely to cause a net increase in the amount of rapes and other sexual assaults carried out in public places?

 

[Doodler]

Sexual assaults happen everywhere.
Women can't trust the police.

They happen more in some places than others.

 

[BlanketAddict]

Given your posts on this thread I'd say it would be some excellent time for reflection.

At a start it might not be the best place to be making things about how you don't need to be curfewed.
It's not about you its about the wider culture and everyone who says these things aren't needed because they are fine and they don't want to be inconvenienced are missing that point.

I don't feel particularly comfortable about putting words in other people's mouths about what this is or isn't but I feel this is part of the problem. the i'm alright jack syndrome.

I never said I'm fine so things aren't needed. Nor am I alright Jack.

I did say some men treat women terribly. I did say the idea of curfewing all men is a daft idea.

I do believe society has a job to do to formulate solutions to address violence against women, and children, and animals, and men.

I also believe in the reality that humans are humans, and as previously mentioned, have a long long history, perhaps even a natural inclination to stretch the point, for violence.

There's a line in The Denial Of Death that always stuck with me about everything in nature ripping everything else to shreds, from animals down to plant life. IMO bigger brained humans have taken this to a new level that transcends the immediate need for survival. Hence, perpetual violence to our fellow people, for all sorts of reasons or even no reason at all.

 

[Orang Utan]

Are you really suggesting the presence of patrolling police officers, with many women among their number, is likely to cause a net increase in the amount of rapes and other sexual assaults carried out in public places?

I think that considering the circumstances it might not be a little tone deaf to suggest it

 

[Pickman's model]

It’s a start and needs to be part of other radical measures to change the culture that normalises men’s predatory behaviour and makes other men make excuses for their dangerous peers

There are a range of actions that could be undertaken which might have a longer lasting effect, such as working on ways to increase the proportion of rapists jailed, of designing crime out of streets, of making it clear that the 'low level' harassment won't be tolerated as it so often is the base from which other serious crimes spring. But it's also got to see more fundamental structural changes, so fewer boys grow into men with the attitudes that fuel misogynistic crimes. These things take time and money and effort but will imo achieve more than creating a seven day talking point will. I wish I had your faith in the power of a curfew to achieve lasting change. But I don't

 

[Orang Utan]

I never said I'm fine so things aren't needed. Nor am I alright Jack.

I did say some men treat women terribly. I did say the idea of curfewing all men is a daft idea.

I do believe society has a job to do to formulate solutions to address violence against women, and children, and animals, and men.

I also believe in the reality that humans are humans, and as previously mentioned, have a long long history, perhaps even a natural inclination to stretch the point, for violence.

There's a line in The Denial Of Death that always stuck with me about everything in nature ripping everything else to shreds, from animals down to plant life. IMO bigger brained humans have taken this to a new level that transcends the immediate need for survival. Hence, perpetual violence to our fellow people, for all sorts of reasons or even no reason at all.

Getting dangerously close to that right wing notion that being horrible is human nature and nothing can be done to change it

 

[teuchter]

I'm surprised this thread has reached page 4 and no-one's started the argument about how you'd define who was a man yet.

 

[Orang Utan]

There are a range of actions that could be undertaken which might have a longer lasting effect, such as working on ways to increase the proportion of rapists jailed, of designing crime out of streets, of making it clear that the 'low level' harassment won't be tolerated as it so often is the base from which other serious crimes spring. But it's also got to see more fundamental structural changes, so fewer boys grow into men with the attitudes that fuel misogynistic crimes. These things take time and money and effort but will imo achieve more than creating a seven day talking point will. I wish I had your faith in the power of a curfew to achieve lasting change. But I don't

You clearly haven’t read all of my posts then

 

[Pickman's model]

Sexual assaults happen everywhere.
Women can't trust the police.

No one can trust the police, be they women or men

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

I'm surprised this thread has reached page 4 and no-one's started the argument about how you'd define who was a man yet.

Well there is a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Pickman's model]

You clearly haven’t read all of my posts then

I replied to your post to me, if you want me to consider other points include them when you quote me next

 

[BlanketAddict]

But it’s only a problem now that innocent men would be affected, which is the point. I don’t want my freedom restricted because of a minority either, but it’s been fine for innocent women to be told to stay at home for their own safety for years. Rather than addressing the root cause it just shifts the blame elsewhere.

But it's not 'been fine' for women to have to stay at home. Just like it wouldn't be fine for men to have to stay at home. That's why I call it a daft idea, real change would surely require much more reasoned solutions?

 

[Orang Utan]

And you've not read all of mine.

I have - you repeated some of the points I made earlier and suggested that I had faith in the implementation of a blanket curfew

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm surprised this thread has reached page 4 and no-one's started the argument about how you'd define who was a man yet.

Share your definition as a starting point

 

[Orang Utan]

But it's not 'been fine' for women to have to stay at home. Just like it wouldn't be fine for men to have to stay at home. That's why I call it a daft idea, real change would surely require much more reasoned solutions?

It’s a thought experiment ffs

 

[Orang Utan]

Share your definition as a starting point

Please don’t

 

[Pickman's model]

I have - you repeated some of the points I made earlier and suggested that I had faith in the implementation of a blanket curfew

Read my edited post

 

[Pickman's model]

It’s a thought experiment ffs

so the way it's been tried in Colombia was simply part of this te

 

[Orang Utan]

I replied to your post to me, if you want me to consider other points include them when you quote me next

I think even just talking about it at least raises awareness. Of course the long term answer is education, especially of boys. Though it takes a lot to change the culture too. We can’t just be telling boys and men about consent and that they shouldn’t assault girls and women. A sea change is needed. My limited experience of working in education suggests that current provision is woeful or non existent

 

[Clair De Lune]

What about collars with bells on?