Mrs B recently had her first scan since the beginning of the year, but she had to persuade her oncologist it was necessary - he said he had to justify every scan as urgent. This was before this new rise started kicking in properly too (though it was obviously on the cards)
Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion
- Thread starter Sasaferrato
- Start date
elbows
Well-Known Member
One of the main reasons they went on so strongly about the NHS being open is likely the same one I was on about earlier when I was moaning about the nature of reporting on hospital outbreaks in this pandemic. People avoiding hospital out of fear is always on their list of concerns, and something the likes of Whitty tried to address in the past too.
And yet the current situation means that they feel the need to show some hospital data in order to demonstrate to people that things are really getting worse again. This was very evident today where a lot of Whittys slides were similar to ones I might show on this subject. Having shown those, he then tried to compensate for one sort of fear those might generate, fear of going to hospital, while still retaining in peoples minds the other fear, the fear they want to exist in the hope it will modify peoples behaviours at this stage of the pandemic.
And yet the current situation means that they feel the need to show some hospital data in order to demonstrate to people that things are really getting worse again. This was very evident today where a lot of Whittys slides were similar to ones I might show on this subject. Having shown those, he then tried to compensate for one sort of fear those might generate, fear of going to hospital, while still retaining in peoples minds the other fear, the fear they want to exist in the hope it will modify peoples behaviours at this stage of the pandemic.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
The Trust I was working for in the first wave isolated all cancer treatment to one hospital that it kept covid free, so it was and still is open for cancer related healthcare, albeit in a slightly adapted way, so it's not as simple as you make out.
Anyway, off topic really.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Yeah, sorry people you're close to are having a tough time of it.
elbows
Well-Known Member
I should also have said that its really awkward listening to them trying to deal with the hospital fears, because they dont actually want to describe the fear of hospital infection that people may have in great detail, presumably because they dont want to tip people off who havent had that fear to date that its a thing.
When the media are being equally cautious about this stuff they would sometimes choose to only mention that people were avoiding hospitals in order to reduce demand on the NHS. Sometimes they would acknowledge the fear of getting it in hospital but usually only very briefly, just a sentence with no expansion or discussion.
It is very difficult stuff, but it also means we havent had a proper look at various NHS decisions regarding patient segregation in the NHS, even when it comes out in SAGE or NERVTAG documents. And the results of fears on these fronts so far is probably also a mixed bag, probably some lives have been saved and some lost as a result.
When the media are being equally cautious about this stuff they would sometimes choose to only mention that people were avoiding hospitals in order to reduce demand on the NHS. Sometimes they would acknowledge the fear of getting it in hospital but usually only very briefly, just a sentence with no expansion or discussion.
It is very difficult stuff, but it also means we havent had a proper look at various NHS decisions regarding patient segregation in the NHS, even when it comes out in SAGE or NERVTAG documents. And the results of fears on these fronts so far is probably also a mixed bag, probably some lives have been saved and some lost as a result.
We aren't particularly, but only because it was clear this time. I'd probably feel less easy about it all if there'd been bad news that would have been picked up earlier on the originally planned scan schedule.
quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
Did he mention when this would start? Sometime mid february or so?
elbows
Well-Known Member
Their arranged statements of reassurance about PPE were probably originally designed with a different second wave timing in mind. The assurances are along the lines of 4 months of stockpile 'for winter' and 70% of PPE produced nationally by December (though I dont know if Im remembering the 70% bit properly).
bimble
floofy
My friend just got a text from his regular pharmacy which says 'be prepared for potential covid disruption: order your prescription as soon as possible'. Hopefully they are just trying to do the things they wish they'd done last time to avoid supply chain issues but that is an alarming message for someone who needs their medication to receive.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
No, not everyone.
While obviously sorry for your situation with your partner and many other people who are and have been suffering unnecessary delays and trauma, UCHL were brilliant with me last year in the middle of the pandemic. This included a rearranged cancer operation within 4 weeks of the original (rearranged because I needed it to be because I'd contracted ecoli) followed by an emergency MRI and admission when the rearranged op gave me ecoli for a second time in 2 months.
UCHL have been brilliant.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Yeah and of course before the pandemic there were massive problems and inequalities in care in areas/between Trusts/etc. And like many things the pandemic has just made some of these already existing problems worse.
blameless77
Well-Known Member
Saw an article about this today.Thank you for highlighting it. I agree that it has been underreported.
I remember a Question Time sometime in spring, when there was talk of the "we managed to protect the NHS, it didn't get overwhelmed, and we haven't seen the horrific scenes that we saw in Italy", and everyone on the panel nodded their agreement. It fell to a member of the zoom audience to disagree and say that whilst we hadn't seen the horrific scenes, it wasn't because they hadn't happened but because they hadn't been shown.
In all this time, the only two cases I can remember reading about were a man in Wales whose partner said he hadn't wanted to burden the NHS, and a woman in Peckham whose husband called the ambulance service and she wasn't taken in and died in the night. I am sure there must have been many more, and I can't think of anything much more horrific. (Well I can but you get my drift).
Eta: I also wonder sometimes about the stress and horror this must have caused the ambulance personnel
'I'm traumatised now': Covid bereaved call for inquiry into NHS 111
Hundreds of people believe the helpline failed their relatives. Now they are demanding their voices be heard
Having had to call 111 for an unrelated issue last week, the extended messages about NOT calling 111 if you think you have Covid were rather chilling.
Weller
So ermm ... You know ermm
Before Christmas , everything sorted before chritmas
Weve even had a tree up in our local pub for 2 weeks now and a menu booking forms the whole prepay package
Its all on the table as you go in underneath the Track and Trace QR code , free masks and sanitizer
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Saw an article about this today.
'I'm traumatised now': Covid bereaved call for inquiry into NHS 111
Hundreds of people believe the helpline failed their relatives. Now they are demanding their voices be heardwww.theguardian.com
Having had to call 111 for an unrelated issue last week, the extended messages about NOT calling 111 if you think you have Covid were rather chilling.
Why chilling? 111 will collapse if everyone who has covid or possible covid symptoms calls them.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Jesus Christ I do apologise for this. I've just written bullshit. Please let me explain. I didn't mean to mislead.
This happened 2 years ago.
BUT.
What did happen in the middle of the pandemic was my one year follow up. This included an MRI and a follow up appointment. None of which got cancelled and could easily have been. And I certainly didn't qualify for urgency criteria on that. And I travel from Wales to London for it. They have no obligation to see me at all.
Really sorry for the original post. I've been teaching and counselling depressed kids all day and I've been awake from 4.10am (don't ask).
Takes nothing away from the brilliance of UCH who have saved my life twice in the last 6 years.
But sorry for the original post inaccuracies. I'm fucking tired. And have it all to do again tomorrow. In lockdowned Llanelli.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Well at a minimum what was required was some kind of follow-up system backed by strong public health messaging, so that people who were initially told to recover at home and not bother the health services, had some proper sense of when this advice was no longer appropriate and who/when to call for help.
Instead we had a situation which left me making jokes about how Johnson eventually did his bit for public health education by highlighting the risk of serious deterioration after more than 7 days of symptoms via his own plight.
There are probably a multitude of reasons why such a system did not exist, including the system that did exists very deliberate role in peak demand suppression. Sadly I will not be at all surprised if a similar thing happens again. There are probably a few less reasonable excuses for doing so this time, but if the overall numbers get bad enough (or staff shortages get bad enough) then I expect more demand suppression during future nasty peaks. But we wont necessarily see the same sort of peaks this time, or they will have a different nature to their timing, or the picture will vary more regionally and maybe capacity from elsewhere could be redirected, I cannot say with confidence. Could easily be worse for seasonal reasons including other viruses and other hospital demand, but the various mitigation measures complicate the picture of how infection rates are likely to evolve, its not as clearcut as last time (a good complication to have).
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Pull the tree down. It's not even October.Before Christmas , everything sorted before chritmas
Weve even had a tree up in our local pub for 2 weeks now and a menu booking forms the whole prepay package
Its all on the table as you go in underneath the Track and Trace QR code , free masks and sanitizer
Weller
So ermm ... You know ermm
You cant get at it the Covid door Marshall scans you in gives you a throw away sanitized menu escorts you past the tree in a mask until at the table and once there you cant get up without a mask up a monitored sanitize and an escort out briefly stopping 2 metres from the tree for a throw away xmas booking form and re scanning a QR code its pretty depressing so it makes the tree and lights and Rudolphs head more annoying this year
Most Greene King owned pubs and restaurants though have had trees up just before haloween for last few years but even earlier this year it annoys many even before the pandemic it may be pulled down and filmed like Saddams statue in a ritual come Fridays 9.15pm last orders and it is rather large
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Miss-Shelf
I'll meet you further on up the road
I phoned 999 because I thought I was having a heart attack [when I got covid] and living alone I didn't want to take a chance that it would prove correct but I'd not be able to phone [I was having scary heart symptoms, felt faint and sick and was sweating]
999 wouldn't touch me cos I said it was covid related. I rang 111 three times because the first 2 times they just went through the script and I couldn't convince them how bad I felt
3rd time they let me through to the clinician supervising and she sent the paramedics out and they took me to hospital
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